When the message being sent is "cyclists can do whatever they want"

[Rajagra]

... then you shouldn't be surprised to see things like this. And I'm not. They are just copying the attitude of adults.

Look at the tailback they caused.

 

[kamkar]

The young ones

 

[old4570]

??????
I thought a bicycle had just as much right to a lane as a car ?
Or do bicycles need to be in the gutter in the UK ?

 

[kamkar]

In the video there is a blue painted bicycle lane, and i think they are supposed to be there and nowhere else.

Its the same here if there is a bicycle path alongside the road you are not allowed to drive on the road, as you would normally do if there is no bicycle path.
And bicycles here belong along the curb and nowhere else, no pretending to be a motorcycle no going into left turn lanes.
Giving slow moving and soft targets as bicyclists anything near same rights in traffic as motor vehicles is outright insane, they need to be in certain places where people driving cars and what not know where to expect them.

And here thats along the right hand curb and one after the other and not side by side, or on the right hand bicycle path, or if rare occasions on the dual direction bicycle path going what ever direction you please just keep right there too.

We have 45 km/h mopeds here you can drive if you are 18 and have a license for car or motorcycle, but those are also a bloody nuance even on 50 km/h streets, or even more so on 60-70 or 80 km/h highways, but thank god the most people driving them do it wrong ( you are supposed to drive them as a motorcycle and so claim your place in a lane ) but mostly they keep far right too, and thank god for that.

45 km/h mopeds just prove how insane and out of touch with anything real life politicians are here, the people coming up with that BS should be put up against a wall and shot

Ooops let a little of my down to earth self out of the jar there.

 

[old4570]

Ok , squiggly lines mean ? ( No parking ? )
And the blue zone is bikes only ?
So where the blue is , the bikes are supposed to be ? If there is no blue , then they can use the road ...
Looks dangerous .. The way its set up . for the cyclist ... Especially where the pedestrian crossings are .. ( Merging traffic for bikes and cars = great place to get wiped out , and there are plenty of video's of just such on youtube )

 

[Rajagra]

??????
I thought a bicycle had just as much right to a lane as a car ?
Or do bicycles need to be in the gutter in the UK ?

I'm not sure if you're being serious.

Most places, including this road, cyclists can use any lane.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE COMPLETE DIRTBAGS AND DELIBERATELY BLOCK TRAFFIC FLOW FOR NO REASON.

Watch again. They are DELIBERATELY blocking all traffic, and they are laughing about it. They are getting off on the fact that they have disproportionately high rights and low responsibilities, and can get away with anything.

This is not a quiet side street. It's the South Circular road - part of the inner ring road of London - a major route! Don't be mislead by the way the crazy anti - motorist authorities have narrowed it and slapped on a ridiculous 20mph limit. (Look how wide the street is, building - to - building, yet they've made it a single lane in each direction.)

The blue lanes indicate cycle routes. Motorists may use them if needed unless they have a solid white line (and they don't along here.)

The zig zag lines are on the approach to pedestrian crossings. By law, you MUST NOT park or overtake there. But try telling that to two - wheelers. You nearly always get them overtaking blindly, often on the wrong side of the road at speed. I've seen a couple of near misses because of this recently, including one guy crossing in a disability scooter nearly being hit by a moped because the scooter was to low to be seen. MUCH LIKE CHILDREN ARE!

Again, not sure if your comment was serious. How can you watch this and think it's in any way okay for them to behave that way?



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[SawMaster]

I must agree whole-heartedly with Kamkar1- bicycles and mopeds need to be more heavily restricted when used on most urban roadways. In many places they simply cannot be used on the road if maximum safety for all people is the goal, which it should be If you operate a car recklessly here, you'll get arrested and your car towed and impounded on the spot because of the danger you create to society through it's misuse.Bicycles and mopeds should not be immune to this.

What I'd propose is to do something similar with bicycles and mopeds; it would be cheap and easy to confiscate and impound them even if the operator was just ticketed and released which would not be imposing any undue hardship on them. Each patrol car could be issued a few cable locks to affix the offenders machine to a nearby solid object allowing for later pick-up while the Police could return to service almost immediately. The scale of the funds generated by this would only be exceeded by the increased public safety which could make for a good argument to cash-strapped governments for implementing this process And there could be no argument against it as it would affect only those breaking the laws we already have in place

Then perhaps those yellow-shirted spandex clad folks would finally learn how silly they look as they walked the rest of the way to their destination among a public who is laughing at them instead of cursing at them as we do now The increase in the general humor level alone would make it all worthwhile!

Phil

 

[Rajagra]

In all honesty, I've considered carrying heavy duty cable ties on me. On seeing a cyclist break the law I'd run up and "wheelclamp" them with a cable tie. While they get the cable tie off they would be inconvenienced by more than they'd gained by breaking the law so it would be an effective deterrent.

And the best thing about it would be that no assault or criminal damage would have been done, so there's stuff all they can do about it.

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[old4570]

See , its that double edged sword thing ...
You can't simply discriminate ( actually you can and they do but ) against one road user ...
Obviously EVERYONE needs to be held accountable .. With no exceptions ...

And no one likes to be held up , but sanity needs to prevail ..
Cars are not the only mode of transport roads are for .. Its that sharing caring thing !
And it's seems in very short supply ..
There is that old saying , walk a mile in another mans ( persons ) shoe's .. ( I say walk a thousand miles - one mile simply does not cut it )
As there are shonky cyclist , there are far more shonky drivers ...
When cyclist kill as many people as car drivers , then I say it's time to do something about it ..
ATM I would say cars ( drivers off ) are the number one killers on the road ...

So , what I was trying to understand was !
A) Were the cyclist breaking the law ? ( Criminal behavior )
B) Or were they simply enforcing their rights to the annoyance of motorists ... ( Being ass holes )

 

[kamkar]

At least the police here will confiscate tuned mopeds now, #2 time you get busted on a too fast moped you can wave goodbye to it.
This is a fairly new rule here that should have been in place decades ago, but why it wasent i have no idea.

At least we Danes have plenty of bicycle paths and a infrastructure thats been in place and improved on for decades, so it do freak me out when i see how other countries are trying to accommodate bicyclists into their infrastructure.
And i have to admit some of the things i see in other countries is just WTF
Hell even China that also have a old and big bicycle culture, but i figure they just decided to ignore the issues and let people die.

I think i once saw a bicycle path ( not elevated or otherwise protected ) in the middle of a road, ???? WTF so now the poor pedal-pushers are liable to be hit from 2 sides

 

[dash riposki]

I think they still have the 'critical mass' protests (Via bikes) in some major cities. They intentionally block car traffic, and clog the streets, since 'cars are bad, bikes are good'. From what I have read they run redlights, break every traffic rule they can, as well as inconvenience the public.
Here is one guy actually getting arrested for running a red light.

 

[SawMaster]

Impeding traffic flow is illegal here but that might not be the case elsewhere. If everybody operated with due consideration of other road users there would be no problem for anyone, but that doesn't happen Which is why we have laws regarding behavior on the roads, but they do no good without proper enforcement Something has to happen before chaos and anarchy take over, which they will as humans have always acted that way in situations like this

My solution is not discriminatory since it can legally be done now though it isn't because of the attitude that bikers and cyclists rarely kill other people on the road; that kind of thinking is erroneous and discriminatory against larger vehicle operators who have equal right to use the roads too even though their vehicles are capable of causing far more damage in a crash So what I'm calling for is to create more equality through easier enforcement practices, not changed ones, and to promote better user-cooperation through that means And yes, I have spent several months of my adult life with only a bicycle as my sole means of transportation and I spent years on motorcycles too, so I feel confident that I understand the matter at hand well enough and likely better than most do

Those who do not operate with due consideration of others while using the roads and those who cannot keep up with the traffic flow simply do not belong on the more congested roads together with modern traffic. Even if that was once an acceptable concept, it simply no longer works acceptably well. If you've got a better solution that is just as viable as mine, lets hear it. All I'm looking for is a way to solve the problem while that is still possible through non-violent means

Phil

 

[kamkar]

My last bike was in 1989, did about 1000 Km on it every month in the 7 months i got it, and really i did not go on the long rides like when i was a kid.
so i was like 24 then and a adult my age at least.

Dont let your city planners go creative, just copy what work.

 

[Rajagra]

You can't simply discriminate (...) against one road user ...

And I don't. I call it how I see it for all road users.

There is that old saying , walk a mile in another mans ( persons ) shoe's ..

Well I'm a motorcyclist and cyclist, I've spent many more years on two wheels than four.

As there are shonky cyclist , there are far more shonky drivers ...

Whoa, you are very wide of the mark. At least where I'm from, the vast, VAST majority of motorists bumble along just fine without breaking many rules let alone laws, and cause remarkably few problems. It's easy to forget this, or it escapes your notice completely. But next time you're out, just take a moment to watch and take in just how uneventful most driving is.

Cyclists, on the other hand, have taken on a culture of INHERENTLY unsafe riding. MOST of them ride dangerously, doing such things as changing position without looking, or even when they KNOW it's unsafe, because "it's motorist's responsibility to prevent accidents."
They are also consistently selfish, infringing other people's rights "because they can" and they use their vulnerability as a weapon to force motorists to back down.

Such people are scum. When motorists act that way they are universally condemned. When cyclists act that way people come out with the BS "they're only cyclists" defence.

When cyclist kill as many people as car drivers , then I say it's time to do something about it ..

Sorry, that's just another BS "just cyclists" argument. Either follow the rules of the road, which are for everyone's benefit, or get off the road.
Cyclist's actions have knock on effects. Cyclist moves into path of car without warning... car serves... pedestrian gets run down and killed.
There's no excuse for recklessness.

A) Were the cyclist breaking the law ? ( Criminal behavior )
B) Or were they simply enforcing their rights to the annoyance of motorists ... ( Being ass holes )

It is an offence to obstruct traffic (not criminal offence though?)
Annoyance is an understatement. They were inciting road rage.


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[kamkar]

They were inciting road rage

And acting like that they will get to feel it soon, and thats alright by me, no one really broken by a good slapping now and then as long as they know why they ended up on the receiving end of a fist / palm.
I got hit a couple of times as a kid, and no doubt ever about why i ended up there, and no doubt it dident happen at the same level as i was bad, actually i think the times i got caught out was in the order of 1 - 2 %
And really all i learned was not to get caught out by my parents, and i assume be a accomplished liar too. ( most people dont know this, but if you are not good at lying, you are far better of telling the truth )

And for god sake dont get too high hopes about your lying skills, its like a art-form, like a magician it take a lot of practice and skill to lie to the face of another person and get that person fully on board with your lie.

If you have been hanging out with the wrong crowd or politicians you will probably be good at it, in those kind of groupings being a BS artist is the norm and you will have plenty of practice.

 

[old4570]

And I don't. I call it how I see it for all road users.

Well I'm a motorcyclist and cyclist, I've spent many more years on two wheels than four.

Whoa, you are very wide of the mark. At least where I'm from, the vast, VAST majority of motorists bumble along just fine without breaking many rules let alone laws, and cause remarkably few problems. It's easy to forget this, or it escapes your notice completely. But next time you're out, just take a moment to watch and take in just how uneventful most driving is.

Cyclists, on the other hand, have taken on a culture of INHERENTLY unsafe riding. MOST of them ride dangerously, doing such things as changing position without looking, or even when they KNOW it's unsafe, because "it's motorist's responsibility to prevent accidents."
They are also consistently selfish, infringing other people's rights "because they can" and they use their vulnerability as a weapon to force motorists to back down.

Such people are scum. When motorists act that way they are universally condemned. When cyclists act that way people come out with the BS "they're only cyclists" defence.

Sorry, that's just another BS "just cyclists" argument. Either follow the rules of the road, which are for everyone's benefit, or get off the road.
Cyclist's actions have knock on effects. Cyclist moves into path of car without warning... car serves... pedestrian gets run down and killed.
There's no excuse for recklessness.
It is an offence to obstruct traffic (not criminal offence though?)
Annoyance is an understatement. They were inciting road rage.


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Hehehehehehehehehehehe This is fun ...

Lets see now .... Where to start ?

All road users ? ( Thats not my perspective on your posts ) But thats neither here nor there ..

Motor Bikes and Cycles = I am happy you were not mushed on the road ..

Shonky = Hmmmm , well .. Perspective and numbers .. I can only speak for my own country and experience ..
Since car drivers outnumber cyclists by quite a large margin , Let me google it ...
Cant find such info ....

But here is something I found from the Adelaide Advertiser ....
+ There were a whole bunch of other articles , like : Why do car drivers think they can kill cyclists ?
But I found this interesting ... And its only relevant for Adelaide - Australia ...


FOUR in every five crashes between cars and bicycles are caused by the driver of the car, police statistics show.
The study by Adelaide University's Centre for Automotive Safety Research could end the long-running debate between drivers and cyclists about who is to blame for accidents.

Researcher Tori Lindsay studied the cause of bicycle accidents from police statistics after a large increase from 12 per cent of all crashes resulting in hospital admission in 2001 to 17.4 per cent in 2010.

The study focused on the most serious injuries - 61 patients at the Royal Adelaide Hospital who were the victims of collisions with cars from 2008-2010.

"More than 85 per cent of the cyclists in the study were identified as travelling straight on a single carriageway with the intention of continuing straight at the time of the crash," Ms Lindsay said.

"Drivers of vehicles, however, were more likely to be turning, with more than 64 per cent of all drivers undertaking a turn manoeuvre into or out of another roadway at the time of the crash."

Bicycle SA chief executive Christian Haag said the results showed a need for greater education and compliance, mainly for drivers.

"It is also important for cyclists to educate themselves and not just jump on a bike when they turn 45 because their doctor has told them to do some exercise," he said.

Cyclist Jurgen Klus said motorist behaviour improved during the Tour Down Under but quickly returned to normal afterwards.

"You don't keep statistics when you are riding but you see plenty of near-misses in which the driver doesn't even know they have almost caused an accident."

The most serious injuries incurred by cyclists were fractures, followed by those who sustained internal organ injuries. Close to a third of cyclists experienced a loss of consciousness following the crash.

By far the most crashes, four in every 10 of the crashes in the study, involved an oncoming vehicle turning right across the path of a cyclist who was continuing straight.

In six out of 10 crashes, the vehicle driver was crossing two or more traffic lanes while turning right.

In two in every 10 crashes, cyclists ran into cars that were turning from the stem of a T-junction.


Collisions between a vehicle and a cyclist travelling in the same direction were the third most-common movements leading to crashes in the study, totalling one in every 10 crashes.

T-intersections were the most dangerous locations for crashes, followed by straight roads, and signalled intersections.

Drivers were at fault in 79 per cent of crashes and cyclists 21 per cent.

 

[Rajagra]

When a study starts its description with the premise that the cyclists are the "victims" of accidents, is not hard to spot the bias. And a study of 61 cases that's supposed to be representative of all accidents? Oh please!

This is all about interpretation, and unfortunately too many people have a warped, biased perspective.

Just because a cyclist is moving forward with the intention of continuing forward, it doesn't mean he hasn't ALREADY put himself in danger by ignoring the dangers and willfully taken a risk because he feels entitled to make progress no matter what the reality of the situation.

Were these cyclists who were moving forward :
A) Scraping through a tiny gap between vehicles despite the likelihood they would start moving?
B) Overtaking on the wrong side of the road without any way back when oncoming traffic arrives?
C) Overtaking on the inside on the approach to a bend or junction, and COMPLETELY ignoring the very high chance of someone turning or the gap shrinking?

I see these stupid, dangerous actions all day long. These things are risky. Say it after me : THESE THINGS ARE RISKY. Nobody has a right to ignore these risks and gamble with their lives then get to bitch and moan when THEIR gamble doesn't pay off. But this is the insane attitude that cyclists have and you are supporting.

If cyclists want to share the same roads as motors, but stay in denials of the risks - especially the ones that THEY are creating - then they are going to continue causing incidents, and THEY will be the ones to blame.

A sympathetic, happy clappy disposition towards cyclists doesn't help - ITS MAKING THINGS WORSE.

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[old4570]

http://www.pedbikeinfo.org/data/factsheet_crash.cfm
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/cycling-safety-the-statistics-20140818-105erb.html
http://www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice/pedal-cyclists/facts-figures/
https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/bicycle/
https://www.bicyclenetwork.com.au/m... Cyclist Fatalities in Australia ACCEPTED.pdf
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...k=ad08569531f1c39fade9bdc0162cc6a4-1488803367
http://www.news.com.au/national/dea...s/news-story/0b1b633b20532f077dfc3f8957a304c2
https://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurba...ing-killed-while-cycling-on-roads-increasing/
http://bicycleuniverse.info/transpo/almanac-safety.html
https://www.outsideonline.com/1930211/bikes-vs-cars-deadly-war-nobodys-winning
https://www.towardszero.vic.gov.au/...TOWARDS_ZERO&gclid=CNzQsvjwwdICFREHvAod2UsFSQ
https://bicyclensw.org.au/category/e-advocacy/knowledgebase/research-statistics/
http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/statistics/
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cyclist-deaths-you-17-times-6021412 Mirror UK ( ???? )
https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/21/how-safe-is-cycling-its-hard-to-say/?_r=0

 

[Rajagra]

Why are you dumping a load of links here? I know what I see and that's cyclists deliberately riding dangerously because they make better progress that way.

I'm just saying they should ride safely and stop fantasising that the risks aren't there. I'm baffled that anyone has a problem with that! Especially THEM!!!

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[old4570]

My complete response vanished .. ( Stupid keyboard )
We are talking apples and oranges ..
Your perspective is England , my Perspective is Australia ..
And lets not forget life's experiences ..
I think we are pushing cobra venom uphill ..

Yes , cyclist can do stupid things , yes they are annoying .. But a car is a lethal weapon ..
A little like a water pistol VS a 357 ..

Get squirted with a water pistol , yes its annoying .. Get shot with a 357 and its quite possibly fatal ..
I am not excusing stupid , but merely pointing out that cyclist do have rights ..
And that car drivers are not as pure as the driven snow ..