Your thoughts on the Viofo A129 Pro Duo as it stands today? Should I buy now or wait for it to mature?

OzAdam

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Dash Cam
Viofo 4K A129 Pro Duo & A119 Pro
So I know the A129 Pro is brand new and hasn’t been out very long at all, but I was wondering how are people finding it so far as of today – the middle of October 2019?

I know some have been testing it for a while before the official release. I have also been reading through the posts in this forum over the past few months.

I have been waiting for this camera from when I first heard about it at the start of this year. Today I noticed it has appeared for sale in Australia. Viofo want $370 Australian Dollars (AUD), add the CPL and the 3 wire hardwire kit and its about $420AUD (then there is the SD Card on top of this)

For price comparison in Australia:
  • A129 Pro $370AUD
  • Thinkware U1000 approx $700-900AUD
  • Blackvue dr900s 2ch approx $500-800AUD

Essentially my needs are:
  • Picture clarity for face and numberplate legibility (day/night)
  • Reliability
  • Heat tolerance
    • Summer days in Australia reach 40C+ (104F+)
  • Reliable Buffered Parking Mode
  • Rear camera / dual camera
I bought the A119 Pro in January and it has been perfect so that's a good sign.

I have downloaded several raw video files from members on here (e.g. Paul, Nigel, Tractor) and was very impressed with the quality when viewed with VLC and on my Samsung 4K TV. Motion blur is a slight concern but in my years of viewing footage from all different cameras they all have flaws it seems.

New reviews on YouTube of the A129 Pro appear to be a mixed bag with image quality. Not sure why – I am aware YouTube degrades visual quality but for example videos posted by ‘BlackboxMyCar’ look rather poor compared to the raw files I downloaded from here.

I originally wanted the Blackvue DR900 2CH but wasn’t that happy with its picture quality and its overheating issues. In addition I don’t find the video quality on the new Thinkware U1000 that impressive at all to be honest.

I was disappointed Viofo only included a 1080p rear camera but it does the job. Originally I was going to use two A119 V3 but I think the A129 Pro would be a nicer solution (management and issue wise).

Bottom line:
  • How are you finding the A129 Pro? - Are you happy with it so far?
  • Should I go for the A129 Pro now or wait till it matures?
  • Any other quality 4K units I should strongly consider?
 
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I am aware YouTube degrades visual quality but for example videos posted by ‘BlackboxMyCar’ look rather poor compared to the raw files I downloaded from here.
They may have lost quality in the editing as well as the upload to Youtube, also I noticed that their review footage from the front camera was almost all looking directly into the sun, a challenge for any camera, then they switch to the rear camera and it is still looking directly into the sun! Then at the end, the A129 in depth review turns into an advert for the Thinkware U1000, but if you watch their Thinkware U1000 review there is no mention of the Viofo! Also their dark footage seems very noisy, not something I've noticed on my camera, not sure how that came about.

Maybe they make more money selling the U1000?
 
  • How are you finding the A129 Pro? - Are you happy with it so far?
  • Should I go for the A129 Pro now or wait till it matures?
  • Any other quality 4K units I should strongly consider?
  • I've been very happy with it, needs a bit more work to be perfect, but the image quality is very good.
  • I doubt the hardware is going to need updating, so you can buy now and update the firmware as it matures.
  • You have listed all the 4K units worth considering, and I don't expect new 4K models to join them quickly, it is not nearly as easy to develop a decent 4K camera as it is a FHD camera.
Essentially my needs are:
  • Picture clarity for face and numberplate legibility (day/night)
  • Reliability
  • Heat tolerance
    • Summer days in Australia reach 40C+ (104F+)
  • Reliable Buffered Parking Mode
  • Rear camera / dual camera
  • For picture clarity it is the best available.
  • Reliability is looking good, but of course it is new so yet to be proven, as are all the other 4K dashcams.
  • Heat tolerance, it does get hotter than your A119, and may temporarily shutdown in your 40C+ temperatures, but I do expect it to survive and the other 4K dashcams don't seem to do that well in the heat.
  • Buffered parking mode currently has an issue with the g-sensor, waiting for a firmware update, so not perfect yet. It also has low bitrate which might be considered superior.
  • Rear camera, yes it has one, and I think for most people a 1080 Starvis sensor is sufficient for a rear camera, alternatively you could use your A119 for the rear and use the cheaper non-dual A129 for the front.
 
Then at the end, the A129 in depth review turns into an advert for the Thinkware U1000, but if you watch their Thinkware U1000 review there is no mention of the Viofo!

Nothing new about it. The video where they sat down with vortex radar and compared a bunch of models also oozed bias.
 
Honestly speaking, for the price tag it should already be tried, tested and ready to plug and play and forget about it. I received my test unit September 6th (for high heat testing) and it was already for sale to the public by October 1st. I found that a little...odd. I like to test products thoroughly before reviewing them and making an honest informed opinion. A month of testing in AZ 100 degree heat showed it seemed stable enough for high temperature use. But this wasnt on the hottest of days so I cant tell you how it reacts to consistent high heat use (3-6+months of hot weather) because were going into winter season now. It seems the product was reliable enough that it did not have heat related hiccups for nearly 24 hours of straight recording(not in high heat) through a cross country trip. The camera seems good enough for daily use, speaking solely on its ability to consistently record without hiccups.

I think most of the downsides right now are due to bugs and image quality improvements. The good news is that issues are being worked out quickly. Bad news is that you need to keep up with firmware releases. As of now i am not aware of anything that notifies me that there is a firmware update for my camera other than regularly checking here. The wifi feature/viofo app is a total headache to work with. I am currently testing parking mode but i believe it also needs more refinement. Im relatively to new to the dash camera world but as a consumer id rather purchase something that is refined and polished. In a sense im glad a place like this forums exists so the company can get feedback and make improvements but i also wish id have a stand alone product right out of the box without the need to keep tinkering with it.
 
They should do what SG do, so if you register your devise online, you get notified when there are a new official firmware for your model, and betas you can keep a tap on in here in their sub forums.
I am torn on what to think of the firmware updates, it is of course nice they are there when they are needed, on the other hand if the camera was truly ready to go from day #1 you wouldn't need to update your FW, at least not that often.
Most people i also think get a dashcam put it in the car, and forget about it, which are really not a good thing to do, cuz none i know off are truly set an forget devises.
But at least the new devises will sound a alarm if something are wrong, in the "old" days the camera would just sit there and appear to be working fine, when it haven't recorded a file in months.
Still today i feel you are best off if you have a little geeky approach to your dashcam and take a look at its footage now and then, cuz i don't feel they are truly consumer grade yet, meaning set and forget mainly.
Easy for me to do as i upload footage to youtube, so i look at my memory card at least once every month, but most i recon dont do that and then the camera are in danger of being forgotten.

Last night driving home some idiot made a left turn onto a motorway on ramp right in front of me, had to slam on the brake hard to avoid a crash :mad:
 
... I received my test unit September 6th (for high heat testing) and it was already for sale to the public by October 1st. I found that a little...odd.
It had already been on test for many months, including over mid-summer (I had mine in mid summer), and all the known heat issues had been sorted, yours would have been from a pre-production batch of test units with some extra changes that needed checking somewhere hotter than September where Viofo live. Currently they are still on small production batches, just in case something serious is found.
I am currently testing parking mode but i believe it also needs more refinement. Im relatively to new to the dash camera world but as a consumer id rather purchase something that is refined and polished. In a sense im glad a place like this forums exists so the company can get feedback and make improvements but i also wish id have a stand alone product right out of the box without the need to keep tinkering with it.
I think most of the current issues are issues inherited from the standard A129, to which buffered parking mode is a recent addition which still has some issues to fix, part of a continuous development policy, and when that is all working correctly there will probably be something else added which will have a few problems to sort. Low bitrate parking mode was an earlier addition which is now working well. These are really independent issues to the release of the 4K version of the A129.
 
  • A129 Pro $370AUD
  • Thinkware U1000 approx $700-900AUD
  • Blackvue dr900s 2ch approx $500-800AUD
Theoretical, U1000 should have the best image because it is using the biggest CMOS used in a dashcam ever: Sony IMX334. But, like BlackVue, it is using a small bitrate. Based on bitrate, Viofo A129 Pro have the highest bitrate so it should offer the best image but I don't know if a bigger bitrate can compensate its smaller CMOS. I consider BlacVue out of discussion because it have smaller CMOS than U1000 and smaller bitrate than Viofo A129 Pro.
Only real and correct comparisons will show which 4K dash camera is offering the best image.

enjoy,
Mtz
 
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They may have lost quality in the editing as well as the upload to Youtube, also I noticed that their review footage from the front camera was almost all looking directly into the sun, a challenge for any camera, then they switch to the rear camera and it is still looking directly into the sun! .....

  • I've been very happy with it, needs a bit more work to be perfect, but the image quality is very good.
  • I doubt the hardware is going to need updating, so you can buy now and update the firmware as it matures.
...

Thanks for your insight Nigel. The ‘buy this as we make more money’ review bias is one that comes up time and time again which now makes me a sceptic of many reviews. Glad I found this place at the start of this year – real user feedback (it seems at least!)

Also thanks for your thoughts on the A129 Pro so far and answering all my points – much appreciated.

Rear camera, yes it has one, and I think for most people a 1080 Starvis sensor is sufficient for a rear camera, alternatively you could use your A119 for the rear and use the cheaper non-dual A129 for the front.

Good point. Looking at the website, it would seem that Viofo is not selling the single channel in Australia (so far), just the 2CH variant.

Honestly speaking, for the price tag it should already be tried, tested and ready to plug and play and forget about it. I received my test unit September 6th (for high heat testing) and it was already for sale to the public by October 1st. I found that a little...odd. I like to test products thoroughly before reviewing them and making an honest informed opinion. A month of testing in AZ 100 degree heat showed it seemed stable enough for high temperature use ...

I agree. However the reality is (that I find at least) many products are rushed to market to be the first and so on without actually working correctly and we, the consumers, are the beta testers. I am now used to this methodology, but it is one that still frustrates me.

Firmware updates and whatnot are no problem for me – long as it does what it needs to well and reliably. I deal with such updates frequently with much of the technology in my personal and work life. My A119 Pro has shown no issues for ten months now with only one update before the initial install.

I’ll be happy if they continue releasing updates for the A129 Pro Duo. Means we are getting fixes and improvements which is great. With that said, thank you for detailing your experiences with your test unit, especially being in a hot location which is very relevant to me. Let’s hope they don’t burst into flames on hot days when the car is unattended!

Theoretical, U1000 should have the best image because it is using the biggest CMOS used in a dashcam ever: Sony IMX334. But, like BlackVue, it is using a small bitrate. Based on bitrate, Viofo A129 Pro have the highest bitrate so it should offer the best image but I don't know if a bigger bitrate can compensate its smaller CMOS. I consider BlacVue out of discussion because it have smaller CMOS than U1000 and smaller bitrate than Viofo A129 Pro.
Only real and correct comparisons will show which 4K dash camera is offering the best image.

enjoy,
Mtz

Interesting about the CMOS sensor sizes. To be honest, seeing some (admittedly YouTube) footage of the U1000, it was well below par from the visual crispness and overall picture quality that I would have expected, especially for the near $1000 mark of which it is priced in my part of the world. Much the same with the DR900S. The prices these businesses ask for lacklustre quality footage is madness in my view. BUT these top end units are getting better and better and that is fantastic.

My number one need for a dashcam is to identify people who may damage my vehicle, to prove liability in a crash or to protect myself against on-the-road liars, miscreants and con artists. If I can’t identify numberplates and faces when needed, there is no point in a camera.

There has been some good reading so far in this thread.

I am definitely open to other suggestions but I am yet to see any reason to really consider any other brand or model over the A129 Pro Duo at this stage when considering a dashcam for captured picture quality and overall reliability (early days so who knows but Viofo have a good track record).

No matter which unit I end up choosing, I need a SD Card. I assume one would need at least a 256GB SD card for 4K. My preference would be the Samsung Endurance Pro range however the maximum size appears to be 128GB.

Any suggestions for a 256GB or 400GB SD card for the A129 Pro Duo?
 
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Interesting about the CMOS sensor sizes.
If I was the boss of Thinkware I would writhe with big letters on the box something like:
The biggest image sensor used in a dashcam ever!
Then on website presentation some info and pictures about how important is the size of CMOS.

Images like this:
Dash-cam_TWU1000-4K.jpg

can show any 4K dashcam manufacturer even the fake ones, but images to show how important is a big CMOS for the moment can show only Thinkware U1000.

Of course the most important test is if in reality their bigger image sensor offer better image than A129 Pro or BlackVue because the quality of the lens is important. But also firmware adjustments because their low bitrate can kill their CMOS size advantage. After we will see this we can judge if the features like Cloud deserve to pay 2-3 times more than A129 Pro.

Regarding cards I think you need for sure U3 class and a good advice is to look what cards are using the beta testers which are not creating problems. I expect to be better a 256GB card for DUO model.

enjoy,
Mtz
 
A certain well known online auction site has the A129 Pro Duo in Australia for AUD $314.49 after a discount code (PRISM15) from one of Viofo's Authorised Resellers...
Suffice to say, Australia Post have one heading in my direction :)
 
Yeah, ebay Australia have small prices for all Viofo dashcams.

enjoy,
Mtz
 
If I was the boss of Thinkware I would writhe with big letters on the box something like:
The biggest image sensor used in a dashcam ever!
Then on website presentation some info and pictures about how important is the size of CMOS.
If I read a photography web site today, there are lots of posts about how important a big sensor is, does your DSLR need a full size 35mm sensor, or an even bigger medium format sensor...

Then someone posts a video from a mobile phone with a tiny sensor and it is better than than the DSLR video, has 60fps instead of 24fps, has video stabilisation instead of no stabilisation, looks good, and has as much resolution as our monitors can display, has computational photography features, etc!

It is the end result that matters, and Thinkware need to improve their image quality before they use big letters to claim that their image quality is worth "2-3 times more than A129 Pro.".
 
OK, but you know that the main goal of a dashcam image is reading license plates. Can we read 4x times more licenses plates from any 4K dashcam compared to a Full HD dashcam? Is motion blur killing the advantage of the 4K resolution? Can motion blur be reduced by big sizes CMOS? Can a 4K CMOS with the same size as a Full HD CMOS to offer 4x times more details?
If you have a lot of money is easy to click on a website to order a $1000 4K dashcam. But how will you feel if is not what you expected? But when you pay just $250 is more easy to accept.

enjoy,
Mtz
 
Can we read 4x times more licenses plates from any 4K dashcam compared to a Full HD dashcam?
Since running both an A129 Pro and an A129 IR side by side, it seems to me that we can read 4x more license plates with the Pro!

I often find that by the time the plates are close enough for the FHD camera to read them, there is too much motion blur, while they can be read by the 4K camera while they are still at 2x the distance because then there is a lot less motion blur at that distance.

Is motion blur killing the advantage of the 4K resolution?
If the plates are close to the camera then there is more motion blur on the 4K camera and the FHD camera has the advantage, but normally the 4K camera has the advantage because it can read the plates at 2x the distance.

Can motion blur be reduced by big sizes CMOS?
Yes, definitely, so then the question is why does the Thinkware not manage reduced motion blur compared to the A129 Pro? They appear roughly equal to me. Part of the reason will be the firmware, but also I think the sensor they have used is not particularly good for motion blur, it is more targeted at image quality, which they then loose through low bitrate, while the A129 Pro sensor is quite good for motion blur, although it is not actually a Starvis sensor.

Can a 4K CMOS with the same size as a Full HD CMOS to offer 4x times more details?
Yes, although in poor light the FHD sensor would normally be the more sensitive and thus have less motion blur. At zero speed the 4K sensor will win, at high speed, the 4K sensor can only win if it can see the other car coming at a long distance, and if you are not turning a corner.

Currently the best Viofo camera for reading license plates when there is no sunshine is the A119 V3 with its 2K sensor, maybe because it has the newest sensor technology, the standard A129 Duo has a more sensitive sensor but loses because of the FHD resolution. In sunshine the A129 Pro will win, and is not far behind in lower light, so my choice of camera is the A129 Pro.

I'm sure Thinkware could get a better result from their bigger sensor, but maybe if they use a bigger bitrate then it will overheat? Also, they have the problem that it is sold as a cloud connected camera, so must have the wifi on all the time, and the wifi generates a lot of heat making high bitrates impossible, and apparently it can only use 2K resolution when the wifi is on so it can't even see 2x the distance, thus increasing motion blur compared to the A129 Pro. Still waiting for a decent review of the Thinkware U1000 to confirm this...
 
In sunshine the A129 Pro will win
We estimate the numbers of the oncoming stream, I can give you a pairwise comparison on a sunny day with the original video V3 and PRO, V3 takes first place.
 
We estimate the numbers of the oncoming stream, I can give you a pairwise comparison on a sunny day with the original video V3 and PRO, V3 takes first place.
It will depend on speed, and on the brightness of the sun, Russians seem to drive very fast, and in Siberia the sun is not very strong!
 
We will not choose a country where there is a lot of sun for 4K, the conditions are the same!
We have a proverb about skorst: "Which Russian does not like fast driving;)


You are right, 4K will win in the sun, I found such shots at myself! 113Км/ч
Безымянный0.png
 
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A certain well known online auction site has the A129 Pro Duo in Australia for AUD $314.49 after a discount code (PRISM15) from one of Viofo's Authorised Resellers...
Suffice to say, Australia Post have one heading in my direction :)
Yeah, ebay Australia have small prices for all Viofo dashcams.

enjoy,
Mtz

I have noticed this! 15% off a brand new just launched product - that's rather good. Looks like it ends on the 20th of October.

I have a feeling I know of which Viofo Authorised Reseller you are speaking of. I've ordered from them in the past and interestingly the PayPal payment went to the same company name listed on the official Viofo Australia website. Also the 'from' address on the package was the same as on the website also. Sounds like that seller is actually Viofo Australia themselves?

Regarding cards I think you need for sure U3 class and a good advice is to look what cards are using the beta testers which are not creating problems. I expect to be better a 256GB card for DUO model.

enjoy,
Mtz

This is my next question. Just posted in the 'MicroSD card for A129 Pro?' thread about this.

I would like a 512GB card but 256GB would be fine also. The whole 'not intended for dashcam usage' Samsung EVO Plus concerns me. What good is a dashcam if the card is possibly unreliable or fails quickly? Are they OK in this new camera? Samsung won't warranty the card if used in dashcams.

It was suggested in that thread to use a 256GB WD Purple (WDD256G1P0A) surveillance and dashcam approved / endurance card which is a U3/V30 class card. Not sure which I should go for honestly.

Someone convince me away from ordering a 129 Pro. Looks like it’s the best 4K on the market to date. I am seeing little reason to not go with one at this point.
 
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