Police Chase Passes By (note: mediocre-quality night-time video)

[2000rpm]

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My wife captured this on her front dashcam on the home from work this evening (her rear dashcam's view was blocked by a vehicle close behind):

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[Rajagra]

How annoying is it that she committed was forced to commit an offence by crossing the solid white line, and exceptions aren't made (at least not in the eyes of the law)?
I've gone in to bus lanes several times to let emergency vehicles past, but now do it as little as possible as late as possible while trying to work out a way to drive responsibly and legally at the same time. Trouble is you often can't.

Edit> Changed wording so people stop interpreting it as criticism of driver.

 

[Dashmellow]

How annoying is it that she committed an offence by crossing the solid white line, and exceptions aren't made (at least not in the eyes of the law)?
I've gone in to bus lanes several times to let emergency vehicles past, but now do it as little as possible as late as possible while trying to work out a way to drive responsibly and legally at the same time. Trouble is you often can't.

Really? You've got to be kidding. Where I live it is written right into the law that you can cross a solid line if there is a legitimate reason to do so. There is even a section of the law that permits crossing a double solid line to pass if you are behind a very slow moving vehicle such as farm equipment as long as there is no oncoming traffic. Calling out Mrs. 2000rpm's move under these circumstances seems a bit petty.

 

[Rajagra]

Yes it's true in the UK. There are exceptions listed, but making way for emergency vehicles is not one of them.
I used to make way as soon as possible and as much as possible as long as it was safe.
But now that I drive for work (and have been bitten by a bus lane fine under different circumstances) I am more careful.
I'll still get out of the way of an ambulance or fire engine ASAP, but for a police car? Sorry, but I have to ask myself what kind of 'emergency' they are really dealing with and whether I should sacrifice my own interests to help them. So I might move over just enough to let them through, and as briefly as possible. Which is a sad state of affairs.

 

[Auld Reekie]

Only a idiot would refuse to move over to a safe spot while a car hurtling towards you on the wrong side of he road being chased by police. only a cyclist would come out with a comment like that.

 

[Rajagra]

Nobody said anything about not moving to safety. I said it was a shame she had to commit an offence to do so.
My other comments were not specific to this situation.

If you bother to find out what emergency vehicle drivers say, they do not expect you to break the law to aid their progress. That's good enough for me. (But as I said, I choose to go further for ambulances and fire engines because it's much more likely to be a matter of life and death.)

 

[mollydog]

I’m not 100% sure but am I right in thinking here in the UK, even under blue lights the emergence services/police have no immunity from the rule of the highway code, so if they do go through red lights and an accident is caused by it, they do stand the risk of prosecution ?

 

[Daleg]

I'll still get out of the way of an ambulance or fire engine ASAP, but for a police car? Sorry, but I have to ask myself what kind of 'emergency' they are really dealing with and whether I should sacrifice my own interests to help them.

That is a stupid thing to say and do...so when you ask yourself what kind of emergency they are dealing with...does it just come to you by telepathy or do they send you a card? How would you feel if your home was being broken into and your lovely wife there while it was happening...but unfortunately the police were being delayed by some self righteous ass hat that wouldn't move over because he was mulling over what kind of emergency they were actually responding to.

You will move over for fire or ambulance...because they haven't given you a fine. Get over it.

 

[Rajagra]

You will move over for fire or ambulance...because they haven't given you a fine. Get over it.

Actually it was the bus lane camera that gave me a fine, not a copper.
And as I said I DO MAKE WAY for police, I just don't go overboard in how I do it.

Here's an example since you don't seem to understand.

 

[Dashmellow]

Yes it's true in the UK. There are exceptions listed, but making way for emergency vehicles is not one of them.
I used to make way as soon as possible and as much as possible as long as it was safe.
But now that I drive for work (and have been bitten by a bus lane fine under different circumstances) I am more careful.
I'll still get out of the way of an ambulance or fire engine ASAP, but for a police car? Sorry, but I have to ask myself what kind of 'emergency' they are really dealing with and whether I should sacrifice my own interests to help them. So I might move over just enough to let them through, and as briefly as possible. Which is a sad state of affairs.

The dilemma presented to Mrs. 2000rpm was that either she briefly crossed the solid line to make way for the police or she stayed where she was. How can a jurisdiction make a law that provides a no-win situation for a citizen trying to do the proper thing during an emergency? Of course, in Mrs. 2000rpm's case, she was merely crossing into an empty bike lane, not a solid line into oncoming traffic, but still. Where I live you get the ticket for NOT getting out of the way of an emergency vehicle. People have been known to drive right up onto a curb in extreme situations where a large firetruck might not otherwise be able to pass. Lives are at stake.

 

[Rajagra]

How can a jurisdiction make a law that provides a no-win situation for a citizen trying to do the proper thing during an emergency?... Lives are at stake.

Exactly. But automated cameras can't understand the situation. And camera operators don't seem to want to:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/40...e-to-let-fire-engine-pass-is-fined-by-council

I don't get a chance to appeal against a fine. My vehicle is leased. The leasing company pays fines automatically - which means any chance to appeal is gone. Then they add on an admin fee. Then my employer adds on another admin fee. Then it's all taken from my wages before I even see it. So forgive me if I think it through and take as few risks as possible in being selfless.

 

[Daleg]

And as I said I DO MAKE WAY for police, I just don't go overboard in how I do it.

Looks like you said "Might" to me...which isnt the same as "Do." I might...I might not.

Sorry, but I have to ask myself what kind of 'emergency' they are really dealing with and whether I should sacrifice my own interests to help them. So I might move over just enough to let them through, and as briefly as possible

just remember...in those situations...they might get there in time...they might not....they might not go overboard to help you out either...it's okay though,,,depending on their own interest.

We all think that we are much more important than we actually are...truth is...we're not. We are all pretty run of the mill normal. Get over it and move the hell out of the way...it's not that hard.

 

[Rajagra]

Looks like you said "Might" to me...which isnt the same as "Do." I might...I might not.

My exact words were: "I might move over just enough to let them through, and as briefly as possible."
Meaning I might do that. Or I might make extra effort.
For example, in the clip I posted above, I didn't even need to move into the bus lane. But I did.

move the hell out of the way...it's not that hard.

Not hard. Just illegal! And expensive.

 

[Auld Reekie]

In the video Mrs 2000rpm was driving along the road, observed the oncoming blue lights then spotted the car in front (obviously being chased by police car) pull out to overtake she did the sensible thing and pulled into the side as there could have been a serious head on with the offending vehicle. All you could comment on was "How annoying is it that she committed an offence by crossing the solid white line"

What should she do, stay in here original position because of a cycle lane and risk being killed in a head on. She should be praised for spotting it early enough and lessening the risk of a crash, not slated cos she moved into a cycle lane.

The video bus lane with the bus lane, is just a nonsense, if you had been aware of what was going on behind you, police van with blue lights on, a clear lane with no oncoming traffic on the right there was no need for you to pull into the bus lane, the police driver probably seen the empty lane a good way behind you.

 

[Gibson99]

I think the original "criticism" was not directed towards the missus. The problem is that it's stupid how the laws are so blindly enforced when you think how common situations like this are. It's another form of zero tolerance, which lately seems to be synonymous with zero thinking.

http://www.thisistrue.com/zt.html - a good read on zero tolerance

@Rajagra -that sucks that they blindly hit you with that crap with no chance of appeal. In the situation above, i'd say to hell with the law- a car is speeding towards me in my lane. Self preservation says get out of the way even if it means driving on the grass. I don't feel like dying or being injured today, thanks.

 

[Rajagra]

The video bus lane with the bus lane, is just a nonsense, if you had been aware of what was going on behind you, police van with blue lights on, a clear lane with no oncoming traffic on the right there was no need for you to pull into the bus lane, the police driver probably seen the empty lane a good way behind you.

Wait. First you say I should "move the hell out of the way" no matter what, now you're saying I shouldn't?

You don't think it was worth making room for the police van to pass at speed?
You don't think it was worth increasing the police driver's visibility?
You don't think it was worth making room in case oncoming traffic came round the corner?
You don't think it was worth me moving over in case there was more than one emergency vehicle?

if you had been aware of what was going on behind you

If I had been fully aware of what was going on behind me it would be a miracle because my van has no rear windows. I always have to consider what might be in my blind spot.

 

[Daleg]

I want my credit...it was me that said you should "move the hell out of the way"

 

[Rajagra]

I want my credit...it was me that said you should "move the hell out of the way"

I stand corrected. It's just that you 'sound' so alike.

P.S. To make it clear to all, I meant no criticism of Mrs 2000rpm's driving. Just the messed up system that punishes you for doing the right thing.

 

[Dashmellow]

P.S. To make it clear to all, I meant no criticism of Mrs 2000rpm's driving. Just the messed up system that punishes you for doing the right thing.

Glad to hear that, but you did say, "How annoying is it that she committed an offence (sic) by crossing the solid white line", which certainly comes across as direct criticism of Mrs. 2000rpm's driving rather than a criticism of the law itself.

Be that as it may, I am highly skeptical that the laws in the UK are really quite as draconian and rigid as you claim them to be.

I took a bit of time to peruse some of the Byzantine UK Highway Codes and they do not appear to be any more restrictive or rigid regarding how a motorist is permitted to drive during an emergency than in the US or most other westernized nations. Generally speaking, traffic laws, particularly during an incident or emergency are based on logic and common sense rather than arbitrary inflexible rules that present drivers with impossible choices.

For example, Rule #264 under "Lane Discipline" states, "You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by the police, traffic officers in uniform or by signs."

A casual review of these general motorway rules suggests numerous similar examples of driving flexibility during an emergency, just like everywhere else.

While you claim that "exceptions aren't made" in UK traffic regulations you later concede that, "There are exceptions listed, but making way for emergency vehicles is not one of them."

Do you have any proof to support your claim?

 

[Rajagra]

Do you have any proof to support your claim?

I can only go by The Highway Code. The Code itself isn't law, but where it says "you must" or "you must not" that is a reference to a law.

Rule 140

Cycle lanes. These are shown by road markings and signs. You MUST NOT drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a solid white line during its times of operation. Do not drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a broken white line unless it is unavoidable. You MUST NOT park in any cycle lane whilst waiting restrictions apply.
Law RTRA sects 5 & 8
Rule 141

Bus lanes. These are shown by road markings and signs that indicate which (if any) other vehicles are permitted to use the bus lane. Unless otherwise indicated, you should not drive in a bus lane during its period of operation. You may enter a bus lane to stop, to load or unload where this is not prohibited.

As you can see, the cycle lane rule says "must not" meaning a law applies which is cited. There are no exceptions listed in the rule other than if it is unavoidable - but that is a vague term (e.g. you can avoid most things by stopping dead, so when should you not do so?) and also it is part of the sentence saying "do not" which is a statement of guidance only, not a legal reference. So does this advice override the actual law? I don't know.