The perfect dashcam?

[cdlu]

Hi all,

New to the forum, I've had a cheap Neewer (presumably a knock-off as I don't see that manufacturer listed here) dashcam in my car the last couple of months. It's pretty good, handles 64 GB SDXC cards giving me a bit over 24-hours of continuous footage at max quality, but its major failing is when the card is full there is a significant (~30-second) gap in the recording as it deletes the oldest file and starts the new one. Specifically, the camera is this one: http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B004I4Z ... hs_product

Having it has got me thinking about what would make a perfect dashcam, so I've decided to draw up the feature list and post it for discussion. If dashcam manufacturers are reading this forum, I hope they take it to heart.

Dreamland feature list:

- it would contain three cameras:
- main (140-degree) forward-looking fisheye sees the road ahead
- twin angled cameras covering the left and right blindspot (110 degrees each) providing 360-degree video coverage from the camera. These two cameras would probably be a bit lower than the main one on the unit so it can see back while not being obstructed by the mirror.
- the recorded image would be (think ratios, not exact numbers) something like 2000x1500, with two strips, one being the forward looking view at 2000x750, and one would be the two rear/side views combined into a single image at another 2000x750, giving a clear panoramic view including those critical blindspots that all current cameras leave out, as well as driver reactions.
- it would contain two microphones providing a left and right channel, meaning the audio can be recorded in stereo which means the source of the sound could be pinpointed.
- it would contain a GPS receiver, built-in
- it would display lattitude/longitude/heading/elevation (above sea level)/date/time within the image, as well as an arbitrary text field (to provide owners the ability to write "Bob's camera" or "ON plate ABCD 123" for example) -- this would also make the camera useful on private aircraft and boats as well as road vehicles
- it would have a built-in display that displays while recording, AND can continue recording while playing back to its screen
- it would support SDXC cards regardless of size (128 GB SDXC cards are already available, and that size will only continue to rise) and have two slots, permitting two copies of the recording to be made at a time, allowing one to be removed and reviewed externally/turned over for evidence without interrupting the recording. For people who prefer MicroSD cards, those are still perfectly useable in regular SD card slots, so it doesn't preclude it while MicroSD slots do preclude regular SD cards.
- power would be provided by a microUSB line (with cigarette lighter adapter) also capable of copying data while continuing to record (this focus on being able to review data while recording is to allow a copy of data to be given to police, for example at an accident scene you witnessed, while continuing to record the conversation related to copying and any further incidents. This would also permit existing smartphone chargers for most android and blackberry devices already common in cars and houses to be used to keep such a camera charged/running, and should be usable to permit recording directly to an external computer or device.
- the tape-loop would also of course be completely seamless
- the video would record using a common codec that can easily be opened in most players across all operating systems
- the camera would be black, and on a multi-hinge mount so it can be attached behind the mirror on any ****eyed angle and still be level.

In the future I also expect that cars will provide a means of telemetric information being readable by consumer devices rather than only by mechanics. Once that happens, I'd hope that such a camera can be plugged into the car and all manner of information (pedal and steering wheel states, cruise control, tach etc. readings) could be recorded within the camera. This would make the camera a true black box, but we're not there yet.

What features are missing? What's the closest thing on the market to this so far?

 

[Quantum]

In the future I also expect that cars will provide a means of telemetric information being readable by consumer devices rather than only by mechanics. Once that happens, I'd hope that such a camera can be plugged into the car and all manner of information (pedal and steering wheel states, cruise control, tach etc. readings) could be recorded within the camera. This would make the camera a true black box, but we're not there yet.

I hope not. I can see dashcams being built in to cars from the factory.

You know that now cars, especially by GM and Ford, have black box info of the past 15-60 seconds, and that plaintiff's lawyers have subpoenaed that information many times already. Someone you hit sues you, and your own car testifies against you. That's bad enough and is a present reality for certain cars, but then to also have dashcam footage? Devastating. You say 'well just don't hit anyone'? Please.

I hope this doesn't catch on. I want to have complete control over what is done with my footage.

 

[cdlu]

I hope this doesn't catch on. I want to have complete control over what is done with my footage.

I take your point but don't necessarily agree with it. That may be because I live in a country where spilling coffee on yourself gets you laughed at, not rich, and here in Quebec no-fault insurance (paid in your license fee, not your car's insurance) means the government handles all the personal injury liability, not insurance companies or courts. I highly recommend this approach.

If blackbox recordings can convict you, they can just as easily exonerate you or assist you in your lawsuit against another driver should you want to do that. It's a double-edged sword. It can also help for general maintenance diagnostics, allowing you to show a mechanic a difficult-to-replicate problem. There are many more uses to a full blackbox than getting yourself sued.

 

[Quantum]

Absolutely no question that socializing insurance and medicine is far superior and cheaper than our system. Many studies support this, and every developed nation in the world --except us-- does it this way. We have a fairly large percentage of highly propaganzed imbeciles here though. What am I supposed to do?

Double-edged sword? Not if I have complete control over the video. And that's how I want to keep it.

 

[cdlu]

Double-edged sword? Not if I have complete control over the video. And that's how I want to keep it.

If you are in an accident and sued, and it turns out you have a dashcam, the footage will be subpoenaed. If you have deleted the footage, you'll be accused of destroying evidence. How do you have complete control over the video as it stands?

 

[rjgscotland]

That's quite a wish-list!

Your original camera looks to be a DVR-007, which is basically the same as the DVR-027 sans the IR LEDs. http://dashcamtalk.com/dvr-027-720p/

I have a DVR-007 and I've not experienced a 30s delay when the card is full yet. Try to make sure you're using 2 min clips. 15 minute clips will take a long time to delete.

 

[cdlu]

I have a DVR-007 and I've not experienced a 30s delay when the card is full yet. Try to make sure you're using 2 min clips. 15 minute clips will take a long time to delete.

Thanks for identifying it!

When I first got it I tried using 2 minute clips but discovered that if I turned the camera off and on repeatedly (rather than leaving it on when parked) when it got full it lost its place and crashed when it was full. It had no visual or audible warning for the fact it had stopped recording, and continued to insist it was recordering every two minutes. When I made it 15 minute chunks, when it was in this failure mode it would go back to beeping every two minutes giving me an audible warning that it had failed.

It is a long wishlist and I forgot to cover G sensors (G level indications on all x/y/z axis would be nice in the text box) but that's why it's the "perfect dashcam".

I've been reading up on the BlackVue DR400 II and a bunch of others and all of them have severe limitations, most of which are totally unnecessary and could be resolved relatively easily by the manufacturers (eg not supporting SDXC cards, for which the spec permits up to 2 TB and that will be here sooner than you think, requiring frequent re-formatting, and not providing the option to print GPS data except speed directly into the frame).

The question is: what other features do you and others want to see added to this list? What else is imperative in the "perfect dashcam"?

 

[Quantum]

Very small size, like a lipstick case, and a remote DVR.

If you are in an accident and sued, and it turns out you have a dashcam, the footage will be subpoenaed. If you have deleted the footage, you'll be accused of destroying evidence. How do you have complete control over the video as it stands?

I hear what you're saying. It is a scary world out there for some, isn't it. But I won't get confused. Never have, after 58 years.

The answer is, who would ever suspect that I have a dashcam? And if by some small chance someone finds out I do, well it's on all the time, isn't it. And it runs in what, 24 hour loops? So? What's the problem, Droblem?

 

[DashCamMan]

Hi cdlu,

That is an interesting list of features. I'm sure we will start seeing some of these features in upcoming cams. The only one I disagree with is having 3 cameras on the main unit. It is better to have separate cameras that can be placed on the rear window / outside. Cameras facing the back / sides from inside the car will not be able to capture what is going on outside due to differences in light levels.

I'm sure SDXC will be coming soon. GPS, looping, common codec are pretty standard now. Other stuff might take a while to come out though.

Some other features:
- Separate DVR from the cameras so that the DVR can be secured / hidden
- Video quality that is optimized for capturing license plates
- Perhaps some kind of cell network capability to be able to transfer content to the internet / cloud based on an event (accident, camera removal, button pressed). Also to stream live video to the internet (in case someone steals the car, can call the DVR and watch the videos to see where your car is)

I'm sure there are other things that could be added.

As for cameras that offer these kind of features today, I am not aware of any!

 

[vta1985]

If you get into an accident and the police are involved, they will probably be inspecting your car entirely if they believe the accident is your fault. Searching for alcohol bottles or drugs. They would most likely find any car recorder and confiscate it as evidence.

 

[mstoetz1]

I agree with these features as mentioned by DashCamMan...

- separate multichannel DVR ( 2 min - one for back, one for front) that can be mounted under the dash or somewhere hidden
- needs small remote cameras (we know they exist) that are very discrete.
- video quality to read license plates
- external access - Some I noticed had wifi, which wouldn't be bad as when the car is outside the house (or in the garage), i could access the video and/or configuration.

I'd pay the money if it was reasonable for something decent.. but it has to be HD (1080p).

 

[ChicagoSox]

If you get into an accident and the police are involved, they will probably be inspecting your car entirely if they believe the accident is your fault. Searching for alcohol bottles or drugs. They would most likely find any car recorder and confiscate it as evidence.

I hope you don't give up your rights that easily. Just because they search for alcohol and drugs would not give them the right to confiscate cameras and other personal effects. If the police said they were going to take that I would ask him for his search warrant and refuse permission. You do have rights and an accident doesn't wave them all.

If your car was towed to impound the police have a right to search it in order to secure its contents and make sure there is nothing in there that would be a threat or danger in the impound.

 

[Quantum]

At least here in America they will confiscate and inspect anything they want under the 'probable cause' doctrine. They will go all through your smartphone to see who your friends are, what you've been doing, where you've been, text or phone while driving, etc, at least they did with me when I got stopped for DUI. So now I have a lock on my phone. They ask me to unlock? Nope, 5th Amendment.

With a camera they'd at least examine the SD card, and maybe erase it. That's why I'd want the DVR hidden. They've proven they don't mind Cheating.

 

[ChicagoSox]

At least here in America they will confiscate and inspect anything they want under the 'probable cause' doctrine. They will go all through your smartphone to see who your friends are, what you've been doing, where you've been, text or phone while driving, etc, at least they did with me when I got stopped for DUI. So now I have a lock on my phone. They ask me to unlock? Nope, 5th Amendment.

With a camera they'd at least examine the SD card, and maybe erase it. That's why I'd want the DVR hidden. They've proven they don't mind Cheating.

I live in USA too, sorry but i have no sympathy for people who DUI, but you are wrong with your amendments and your rights. A DUI means they are going to arrest and you and they can now search your car for other offenses.

For the average Joe in a regular accident when no probable cause for Drugs, Alcohol, Firearms are present a police officer cannot search your car without a warrant.

Fourth Amendment - illegal search and seizure
Fifth Amendment - Your right to remain silent.

 

[Quantum]

Oh get that wagging finger out of my face. You don't know the facts, Stupid. I described the situation in another thread. I blew UNDER the limit! I was arrested even though I blew UNDER the limit. We are supposed to have Rules in this society, and if we follow those rules and get railroaded anyway, well it is just cause for cynicism.

As to my amendments and rights, either you don't know those also, or you did not read my statements carefully enough.

And finally, for you to be naive enough to think that probable cause is not manufactured every day, says it all AFAIC.

 

[vta1985]

If you get into an accident and the police are involved, they will probably be inspecting your car entirely if they believe the accident is your fault. Searching for alcohol bottles or drugs. They would most likely find any car recorder and confiscate it as evidence.

I hope you don't give up your rights that easily. Just because they search for alcohol and drugs would not give them the right to confiscate cameras and other personal effects. If the police said they were going to take that I would ask him for his search warrant and refuse permission. You do have rights and an accident doesn't wave them all.

If your car was towed to impound the police have a right to search it in order to secure its contents and make sure there is nothing in there that would be a threat or danger in the impound.

This is a copy from a few legal sites:

Automobile Exception

Because vehicles are obviously highly mobile, a warrant is not required to search vehicles if police have probable cause to believe the vehicle contains evidence of a crime, the instrumentalities of crime, contraband, or the fruits of a crime. Although commonly referred to as the “automobile exception,” this rule applies to any vehicle, including boats. While in some ways, it is quite a broad exception, this rule limits the ability to search those areas which might contain evidence of the type suspected to be present. In other words, if police suspect that the occupant of a boat is smuggling people across the border, searching a small tackle box on board would not be permissible. However, if they were looking for drugs, they could search the tackle box. The rationale is that, if an officer has to take the time to obtain a warrant, the vehicle might be out of reach before the warrant can be issued and executed. See Carroll v. United States, 267 US. 132 (1925).

EXAMPLE: Officer Demidum has reason to believe that an abandoned car on the corner contains illegal drugs in the trunk. The car is missing all four wheels and is up on cinder blocks, and the engine was stolen long ago. Assuming that the automobile exception applies, Officer Demidum uses a crowbar to force open the still-working lock on the trunk. There, he finds 10 kilos of cocaine. Rushing back to the station house to show off the evidence to his Captain, Officer Demidum runs into Judge Sosad. Judge Sosad says “You should have called me first. While it’s great to get the drugs off the street, unfortunately we can’t use this as evidence against anyone. The search was illegal, as the automobile exception to the warrant requirement only applies when the vehicle is actually capable of being moved. That’s the whole point of the exception!” A dejected Demidum continues on to the station, where he has to tolerate cars drawn in shaving cream on his locker for the next month.

Search Incident to Arrest: Police officers do not need a warrant to perform a search in connection with an arrest. If you are arrested for a crime, the police have the legal right to protect themselves by searching for weapons, evidence that could be destroyed, or accomplices to the crime. For example, if you are arrested for drug possession, the police can search for additional drugs by searching you, your home, or your car, and any evidence found can be used against you in a court of law.

Police can also perform what is called a “protective sweep” following an arrest. This is done if the police believe a dangerous accomplice or accomplices may be hiding inside a specific location. The police will walk through the location and can legally visually inspect places in which an accomplice may be hiding. In addition, the police can legally seize any evidence located in plain view during the sweep.

Exigent Circumstances: If the police feel that the time it would take to get a warrant would jeopardize public safety or lead to the loss of evidence, they can perform a search without a warrant. For example, the police can forcibly enter a home if it is probable that evidence is being destroyed, if a suspect is trying to escape, or if someone is being injured. The police officer’s responsibility to preserve evidence, arrest a suspect, or protect an individual outweighs the search warrant requirement.

 

[dashcamjunior]

Thinking of buying a dash cam, obviously I am thinking about what my perfect dashcam would be able to do:

- GPS, selectable values for in-video display
- overlay data is easily readable in video footage, but without covering too much view (what about a status line, black on white at top or bottom? easy to crop away via video-editor if desired)
- no proprietary PC software needed to get and read footage and data
- wide angle main camera, licence plates readable at least at close to medium distance
- second channel rear view camera, license plate readable at close distance
- rear view camera waterproof, main unit display/video out remembers last input channel chosen (use rear view cam for parking maneuvers)
- small cameras, main unit stealthy, easy to hide, or separated main unit
- NO mini USB power port, but a standard small diameter power plug (is much more robust than mini-USB)
- event protection button
- little or no loss between video files

It seems that several cameras come close to my primary wishlist.

Probably a dream for now:

- no useless IR LEDs, better install components for other useful functionality
- optional interface that logs power state on external inputs (to intercept and register state of brake lights on/off, blinker l/r on/off, lights on/off, vehicle speed from OBD if no GPS installed or no satellite fix), show symbols in video on status bar, log status to GPS log
- alternative: log any text input from an external device via serial port terminal
- car ACC power for auto registering while driving, optional switchable permanent power connector for g-sensor oder motion-detector acivated registration while parking (that may be done for now with external wiring as well); switch to battery when car voltage descends under a certain treshold to protect main battery
- in parking mode, keep some seconds in RAM without saving to conserve power; save only when motion or g-sensor triggers an event
- make more settings configurable (I like the way using an ini file with personal settings) and document them (!)