Thinkware U3000 - Testing / Review - RCG

[RickZ]

My contact at Thinkware Support North America (Mondo System) had me send back the rear camera and rear connecting cable to have Thinkware check them. Today, I received a replacement U3000 rear camera and rear connecting cable. I installed them, but this time I ran the connecting cable on a 95% different path than any other dash camera cable in my car.

Unfortunately, the two parking mode session tests with the new camera and cable resulted in the rear camera radar not detecting anything. I've sent my findings to Thinkware.

Here are frame grabs from my monitoring camera (A229 Pro 3CH) which show two events that should have been detected. I addition to waving my hand about two feet away from the rear window glass, I opened and closed the trunk lid as well. The only motion time-lapse videos created were when I walked to the front driver side door.

View attachment 69495 View attachment 69494

My car's rear window is standard automotive glass. There are no special coatings or films installed on any window in my car. The U3000 rear camera is installed in a wide gap between the FOB antenna grid line and the rear window defroster's top grid line.

I'm experiencing the same problem in the UK, as far as I'm aware the rear window on my Hyundai Ioniq 5 is a standard tint with no additional coatings or films. The retailer I bought the U3000 from sent me a new rear camera with cable plus a front camera. After connecting the new items my rear camera still doesn't respond to movement when in radar mode. Thinkware claim that this is a known issue in the USA due to different Radar use as a consequence of different radar laws.

When I select motion rather than radar mode then both LEDs are on continuous and my rear camera does record all movement. My understanding is that radar mode reduces power consumed extending parking mode and that radar and motion modes both sense movement the same way, the radar component just provides the pre impact recording and tells the camera to record from the point of impact giving a 20 sec recording which includes the point of impact. Where in motion mode all movement sensed is recorded whether there's an impact or not which consumes more power in parking mode.

Thinkware confirmed to me that in radar mode the rear camera LED should illuminate on movement being sensed but only record on sensing an impact. If this is the case why is movement sensed in motion mode but not in radar mode, it's as if there's a design error in the rear camera or the app that selects radar mode.

 

[rcg530]

I'm experiencing the same problem in the UK, as far as I'm aware the rear window on my Hyundai Ioniq 5 is a standard tint with no additional coatings or films. The retailer I bought the U3000 from sent me a new rear camera with cable plus a front camera. After connecting the new items my rear camera still doesn't respond to movement when in radar mode. Thinkware claim that this is a known issue in the USA due to different Radar use as a consequence of different radar laws.

When I select motion rather than radar mode then both LEDs are on continuous and my rear camera does record all movement. My understanding is that radar mode reduces power consumed extending parking mode and that radar and motion modes both sense movement the same way, the radar component just provides the pre impact recording and tells the camera to record from the point of impact giving a 20 sec recording which includes the point of impact. Where in motion mode all movement sensed is recorded whether there's an impact or not which consumes more power in parking mode.

Thinkware confirmed to me that in radar mode the rear camera LED should illuminate on movement being sensed but only record on sensing an impact. If this is the case why is movement sensed in motion mode but not in radar mode, it's as if there's a design error in the rear camera or the app that selects radar mode.

Motion detection parking mode and radar parking mode do not detect motion in the same way. Motion detection parking mode requires the cameras to be powered up to monitor the visible motion within their field of view. Since it is always "watching" for motion, it can create a 20 second buffered recording file (10 seconds before triggering motion / 10 seconds after) in the "motion_timelapse_rec" directory.



Radar parking mode is a low power consumption parking mode that relies on the radar alone to detect motion within the radar's detection range (front or rear). When motion is detected, the U3000 powers up (in 1 or 2 seconds) to start recording a 20 second video file in the "motion_timelapse_rec" directory. In the "Operation Description" section for the radar parking mode (in the recently revised user manual), it says it will record video when "motion or an impact is detected". It's not when "motion and an impact" are detected.



Thinkware created a support document that explains radar parking mode far better than in the past.

Radar Parking Mode (U3000)

The rear camera radar is located within the fixed position portion of the rear camera housing. The adjustment for the rear camera only adjusts the image sensor / lens field of view (up/down). The angle of the rear window glass will impact how well the rear edge of the fixed portion of the rear camera body is positioned. My car's rear window glass positioned the rear edge of the rear camera so it about 9 degrees off from being perpendicular to the ground. I created a 3D printed wedge to adjust the position of the camera to see if it would help/fix the issue. It did not.

Tonight, I located a few of my GoPro mounts and created a "mount system" that will use a suction cup to adhere to the outside of my car's rear window glass. At the end of the multitude of GoPro mounting pieces is the flat surface that I will mount the U3000 rear camera. Tomorrow, I will move the new/current U3000 rear camera from the inside of the window glass to the end of the mount on the outside of the window glass. I'll run the cable through an open rear side window. I'll move my car to the street and run a few radar parking mode tests with this mount system holding the U3000 rear camera on the outside of the car.

I have my out of focus U3000 rear camera attached to the outside mount using painters tape and rubber band. During the tests, I'll use 3M double sided tape to attach the new/current U3000 rear camera to my mount.

 

[RickZ]

Very informative reply thanks. When in motion mode how does the rear camera sense movement? I'm trying to understand why movement is detected in motion mode but not radar mode. I've also contacted Hyundai to ascertain if there are any additional coatings on the rear window of my Ioniq 5, I can't see anything other than a standard tint.

 

[rcg530]

When in motion mode how does the rear camera sense movement? I'm trying to understand why movement is detected in motion mode but not radar mode.

When in motion detection parking mode, the front and rear camera image sensors are still being powered and monitored for visible motion. It's similar to having the cameras in continuous recording mode, except no actual recording is taking place.

I'm not sure if the motion detection logic is in the image sensor itself or in the firmware logic (I'm sure others will chime in on that one). When visible motion is detected, the previous 10 seconds of video/audio is taken from the buffer and written to the video files plus the 10 seconds of video/audio after the triggering visual motion event are written to the video files.

Radar parking mode powers down the dash camera except for the radar systems in the front and rear camera are still powered. When either radar (front or rear) detects motion, the U3000 is quickly powered up and it starts recording 20 second video/audio files (front and rear). Since most of the dash camera was powered down waiting for the radar system to awaken it, you'll usually see the first 1 second (or so) of the 20 second video files that are created have a large amount of brightness/exposure change as the U3000 gets fully up and running (recording).

 

[RickZ]

In parking mode I wonder how the rear camera image sensor senses movement given radar is used to wake the camera up. It must be something that will sense through glass, could it also be laser based. It seems strange that Thinkware would would chose to sense movement using two different sensing methods.

 

[Nigel]

In parking mode I wonder how the rear camera image sensor senses movement given radar is used to wake the camera up. It must be something that will sense through glass, could it also be laser based. It seems strange that Thinkware would would chose to sense movement using two different sensing methods.

Normally, motion detection in dashcams just compares one frame of the video image to the previous frame of the video image to see how much has changed. Maybe a little more complex, may even involve AI to filter out movement from cats and dogs, but essentially it is a visual comparison over time. I guess this is what is used when not in radar parking mode.

 

[Panzer Platform]

Tonight, I located a few of my GoPro mounts and created a "mount system" that will use a suction cup to adhere to the outside of my car's rear window glass.

Awesome testing rig.

 

[rcg530]

U3000 Rear Camera Radar - Not Working - User Error **

I've had problems with the U3000 rear camera radar not detecting any type of movement behind my vehicle. Thinkware support wanted the rear camera and the rear camera cable back to investigate why it was not working. Thinkware shipped me a replacement U3000 rear camera and rear camera cable. After installing the replacement items, the rear camera radar still did not detect any movement in radar parking mode with the radar sensitivity set to "Highest".

I created a mount assembly to mount the U3000 rear camera on the outside of my car's rear window glass. This was to take my car's rear window glass out of the situation. I parked the car out on the street and started my testing. I still have an older U3000 rear camera from my original U3000 2CH. I used the older U3000 rear camera in my first test of the U3000 camera outside of the car. I ran a test with three attempts to trigger the rear camera in radar parking mode each spaced about 90 seconds apart. At the end of each test, I checked the video files on the microSD card.

Here are my tests and their results. Note the "** User Error **" in test 5.

• Test 1 - Older U3000 Rear Camera - Mounted On Outside Of Rear Window Glass
  • Result - Success
• Test 2 - Just Received U3000 Rear Camera - Mounted On Outside Of Rear Window Glass
  • Result - Failure
    • No video files were created when I approached the rear of the vehicle.
    • One file set was created when the front camera detected my arrival at the driver side front door - it has been doing this in the past
• Test 3 - U3000 Front Camera - Mounted On Inside Of Rear Window Glass
  • Result - Success
    • Each time I approached the rear of the car, the U3000 front would create a video file
    • This suggests the window glass is not root cause of the problem.
• Test 4 - Older U3000 Rear Camera - Mounted On Inside Of Rear Window Glass
  • Result - Success
    • I was beginning to think the new U3000 rear camera was defective (not the case read on).
• Test 5 - Just Received U3000 Rear Camera - Mounted On Outside Of Rear Window Glass
  • Note - This is a repeat of test 2 and test 2 failed
  • Result - Success
    • I was shocked by this result. I truly expected this test to fail again just as it did in test 2.
  • Investigation
    • I found the rear camera cable end that is inserted in the rear camera USB port was "tight" and more difficult to remove than I remember.
    • ** User Error **
      
      • It appears in my previous installations of the U3000 rear camera, I may have failed to fully push in the rear camera cable until it click/snaps into place.
      • I never had any warning messages from the U3000 front camera stating the rear camera was connecting/disconnecting.
      • Video was always being recorded.
      • It appears the two most recent U3000 rear camera's were not fully connected to the rear camera cable.
      • When you feel the click/snap of the rear camera cable you have fully inserted the cable.
      • See picture below for the part of the rear camera cable end that must be snapped into place to have a full connection for both video and the radar to work.
• Test 6 - Just Received U3000 Rear Camera - Mounted On Inside Of Rear Window Glass
  • Note - Rear camera cable was fully inserted into the rear camera USB port
  • Result - Success
• Test 7 - Just Received U3000 Rear Camera - Mounted On Inside Of Rear Window Glass
  • Note - I routed the U3000 rear camera cable through my car as I would all other cables
  • Result - Success
• Test 8 - Just Received U3000 Rear Camera - Mounted On Inside Of Rear Window Glass
  • Note - I drove the car to two different parking lots and parked.
  • Result - Success

If your U3000 rear camera is not detecting any movement near the rear of your vehicle while in radar parking mode, check to make sure the rear camera cable is fully inserted into the USB port on the rear camera.

 

[Panzer Platform]

Glad you got it sorted.

 

[Vortex Radar]

Wow great find with the USB cable! That could explain why I’ve had a rear cam that had issues and after I reinstalled it later it mysteriously started working again.

I wonder if this would solve other people’s issues too.

 

[rcg530]

Wow great find with the USB cable! That could explain why I’ve had a rear cam that had issues and after I reinstalled it later it mysteriously started working again.

I wonder if this would solve other people’s issues too.

I supplied my test findings to my Thinkware contact. I'm hoping that issue is an "easy fix" for many of the U3000 owners that have this problem. It may not be the only reason the rear camera radar feature may not work, but it's at least one thing to check.

 

[Nigel]

I wonder if this would solve other people’s issues too.

Seems quite likely that is the cause of everyones problems, but you have to wonder how it could take so long for someone to work it out! So maybe it isn't the only problem?

How come they are not using standard USB-C connectors that everyone knows how to use? Decent USB-C connectors click nicely into place and always seem secure.

 

[rcg530]

Over the past two weeks, I've running into a couple of issues with Thinkware products. My third iVolt Xtra BAB-95 is now failing to hold a charge (I discuss that in my battery pack review thread). While checking video footage from my U3000 2-channel dash camera, I found a real-time clock (RTC) problem with the U3000. The RTC in the U3000 seems to be losing power to keep the RTC date/time up to date if the U3000 is unpowered for more than 1.5 days.

What do I mean by unpowered? When I complete a drive and park my car in my garage, I will use the <Power> button (second from the left) to power down the U3000. The U3000 will output its power down "music" and power off. As a second step, I turn off the BATT+ and ACC+ power to the U3000 by using a DPST toggle switch which is in the power cable from the dash camera battery pack to the U3000. This removes any potential power drain of the battery pack while the car is parked in my garage.

I typically drive my car twice a week for my regular errands. Tuesday morning, I drive to the local post office to check my almost always empty post office box. Friday morning, I go on my weekly grocery shopping trip drive for 1-to-3 hours (total drive/shopping time).

What I noticed to be "wrong" was that my Tuesday or Friday drives did not result in video footage with a date/time value from that date when the U3000 first booted up. I use Windows CMD scripts to copy the video files from the microSD card to a NAS drive. That script requires the video footage filenames to have the correct date/time to copy them to the NAS drive. I found numerous examples of the first several minutes of the drive (starting up the car and leaving the garage) were missing from these trips.

If I happened to drive my car within 1.5 days of its last drive, the U3000 would have the correct date/time value for the video filenames when it first started recording for that date.

When I say the footage was "missing" it wasn't actually missing. The first few minutes of video files had a date/time value just after the last drive when I parked my car and powered down the U3000. If my U3000 remains unpowered for more than 1.5 days, the RTC power appears to be drained enough to cause the RTC not to update any more. The U3000 appears to be setting the RTC just after the most recent footage recorded (at the end of the last drive). The first several minutes of the next drive will have the older date/time value causing the filenames and time value displayed on the status line in the video to be old. When a GPS signal lock is acquired, the GPS time is updating the RTC value and the date/time in the video and any additional video files created after the GPS time update are once again "correct".

Since October 2023, I found 20 instances of the video files "missing" from the video files for that date on my NAS server. I was able to retrieve the "missing" files for the past few U3000 recording sessions since they were still on the microSD card.

For example, I drove my car on 05-Jan-2024 and then parked it at home. I drove it again on 09-Jan-2024. Here are the files that were created on 09-Jan-2024.

The first three minutes of video files created on 09-Jan-2024 had a date/time value from 05-Jan-2024 (outlined in blue).

While writing the 20240105_182231 files (created on 09-Jan-2024), the GPS time update occurred. The "Date Modified" ends up being correct because the GPS time update to the RTC occurred while writing those files. (yellow outline).

The green outlined files were created with a correct RTC value so the filenames and the date/time in the video status line were "correct".

I reported this issue to Thinkware and they car "checking into it".

 

[Panzer Platform]

Over the past two weeks, I've running into a couple of issues with Thinkware products. My third iVolt Xtra BAB-95 is now failing to hold a charge (I discuss that in my battery pack review thread). While checking video footage from my U3000 2-channel dash camera, I found a real-time clock (RTC) problem with the U3000. The RTC in the U3000 seems to be losing power to keep the RTC date/time up to date if the U3000 is unpowered for more than 1.5 days.

What do I mean by unpowered? When I complete a drive and park my car in my garage, I will use the <Power> button (second from the left) to power down the U3000. The U3000 will output its power down "music" and power off. As a second step, I turn off the BATT+ and ACC+ power to the U3000 by using a DPST toggle switch which is in the power cable from the dash camera battery pack to the U3000. This removes any potential power drain of the battery pack while the car is parked in my garage.

I typically drive my car twice a week for my regular errands. Tuesday morning, I drive to the local post office to check my almost always empty post office box. Friday morning, I go on my weekly grocery shopping trip drive for 1-to-3 hours (total drive/shopping time).

What I noticed to be "wrong" was that my Tuesday or Friday drives did not result in video footage with a date/time value from that date when the U3000 first booted up. I use Windows CMD scripts to copy the video files from the microSD card to a NAS drive. That script requires the video footage filenames to have the correct date/time to copy them to the NAS drive. I found numerous examples of the first several minutes of the drive (starting up the car and leaving the garage) were missing from these trips.

If I happened to drive my car within 1.5 days of its last drive, the U3000 would have the correct date/time value for the video filenames when it first started recording for that date.

When I say the footage was "missing" it wasn't actually missing. The first few minutes of video files had a date/time value just after the last drive when I parked my car and powered down the U3000. If my U3000 remains unpowered for more than 1.5 days, the RTC power appears to be drained enough to cause the RTC not to update any more. The U3000 appears to be setting the RTC just after the most recent footage recorded (at the end of the last drive). The first several minutes of the next drive will have the older date/time value causing the filenames and time value displayed on the status line in the video to be old. When a GPS signal lock is acquired, the GPS time is updating the RTC value and the date/time in the video and any additional video files created after the GPS time update are once again "correct".

Since October 2023, I found 20 instances of the video files "missing" from the video files for that date on my NAS server. I was able to retrieve the "missing" files for the past few U3000 recording sessions since they were still on the microSD card.

For example, I drove my car on 05-Jan-2024 and then parked it at home. I drove it again on 09-Jan-2024. Here are the files that were created on 09-Jan-2024.

The first three minutes of video files created on 09-Jan-2024 had a date/time value from 05-Jan-2024 (outlined in blue).

While writing the 20240105_182231 files (created on 09-Jan-2024), the GPS time update occurred. The "Date Modified" ends up being correct because the GPS time update to the RTC occurred while writing those files. (yellow outline).

The green outlined files were created with a correct RTC value so the filenames and the date/time in the video status line were "correct".

I reported this issue to Thinkware and they car "checking into it".

View attachment 70333

Your detective work is like a fine tooth comb. lol
By any chance do you have a second U3000 unit to duplicate this RTC malfunction with bench testing in the office?

My comb needs recalibration;

 

[rcg530]

Your detective work is like a fine tooth comb. lol
By any chance do you have a second U3000 unit to duplicate this RTC malfunction with bench testing in the office?

My comb needs recalibration;

I just powered up my second U3000 dash camera that has been sitting in a box since early October 2023. The initial date/time value for the first video file was from back in October 2023. It looks the RTC value was taken from the last date/time used when it was powered down and files closed.

I reviewed the video files from this earlier U3000 (Unit 2) on my NAS server. There were a couple of times the date/time were incorrect with that unit as well, but it was more well behaved than the third unit I have in the car now.

In the "spoiler" block, I have a listing of dates and whether the first recording for that date/drive had the correct current date. The "U3000 Unit 2" was the U3000 I had in my car until early October 2023. Unit 3 was installed in early October to address a focus quality problem with unit 2.

Spoiler: U3000 History of RTC values at startup

• U3000 – Unit 2
  • Date / Was The RTC Correct At Boot
  • 16-Jun-2023 / yes
  • 20-Jun-2023 / Yes
  • 21-Jun-2023 / Yes
  • 23-Jun-2023 / Yes
  • 27-Jun-2023 / Unknown – beginning video files rotated off memory card
  • 30-Jun-2023 / Yes
  • 03-Jul-2023 / Yes
  • 07-Jul-2023 / Yes
  • 14-Jul-2023 / Yes
  • 18-Jul-2023 / Yes
  • 21-Jul-2023 / Yes
  • 25-Jul-2023 / Yes
  • 28-Jul-2023 / Yes
  • 01-Aug-2023/ Yes
  • 04-Aug-2023 / Yes
  • 11-Aug-2023 / Yes
  • 15-Aug-2023 / Yes
  • 18-Aug-2023 / No
  • 22-Aug-2023 / Yes
  • 25-Aug-2023 / Yes
  • 29-Aug-2023 / Yes
  • 01-Sep-2023 / No
  • 06-Sep-2023 / Yes
  • 08-Sep-2023 / Yes
  • 11-Sep-2023 / Yes
  • 12-Sep-2023 / Yes
  • 15-Sep-2023 / No
  • 19-Sep-2023 / Yes
  • 20-Sep-2023 / Yes
  • 21-Sep-2023
    • Drive 1 / Yes
    • Drive 2 / Yes
  • 22-Sep-2023 / Yes
  • 25-Sep-2023
    • Drive 1 / Yes
    • Drive 2 / Yes
  • 26-Sep-2023 / Yes
  • 27-Sep-2023 / Yes
  • 29-Sep-2023
    • Drive 1 / Yes
    • Drive 2 / Yes
  • 03-Oct-2023 / Yes
  • 04-Oct-2023
    • Drive 1 / Yes
    • Drive 2 / Yes
• U3000 – Unit 3 / Currently In My Car
  • Date / Was The RTC Correct At Boot
  • 06-Oct-2023 / Yes
  • 07-Oct-2023 / Yes
  • 09-Oct-2023
    • Drive 1 / Yes
    • Drive 2 / Yes
  • 13-Oct-2023 / Yes
  • 15-Oct-2023 / Yes
  • 17-Oct-2023 / Yes
  • 20-Oct-2023 / No
  • 25-Oct-2023 / No
  • 27-Oct-2023 / Yes
  • 31-Oct-2023 / No
  • 03-Nov-2023 / No
  • 05-Nov-2023 / Yes
  • 07-Nov-2023
    • Drive 1 (Morning) / No
    • Drive 2 (Evening) / Yes
  • 08-Nov-2023 / Yes
  • 10-Nov-2023 / No
  • 13-Nov-2023
    • Drive 1 (Morning) / No
    • Drive 2 (Evening) / Yes
  • 14-Nov-2023 / Yes
  • 15-Nov-2023 / Yes
  • 17-Nov-2023 / Yes
  • 19-Nov-2023 / Yes
  • 20-Nov-2023
    • Drive 1 (Morning) / Yes
    • Drive 2 (Evening) / Yes
  • 22-Nov-2023 (Afternoon) / No
  • 24-Nov-2023
    • Drive 1 (Morning) / No
    • Drive 2 (Evening) / Yes
  • 28-Nov-2023 (Morning) / No
  • 29-Nov-2023 (Afternoon) / Yes (day of rear camera radar testing)
  • 01-Dec-2023 (Morning) / Yes
  • 04-Dec-2023
    • Drive 1 (Afternoon) / No
    • Drive 2 (Evening) / Yes
  • 05-Dec-2023 (Morning) / Yes
  • 06-Dec-2023 (Early Afternoon) / Yes
  • 08-Dec-2023 (Morning) / No
  • 12-Dec-2023 (Morning) / No
  • 15-Dec-2023 (Morning) / No
  • 22-Dec-2023 (Morning) / No
  • 26-Dec-2023 (Morning) / No
  • 29-Dec-2023 (Morning) / No
  • 03-Jan-2024 (Afternoon) / No
  • 05-Jan-2024
    • Drive 1 (Morning) / No
    • Drive 2 (Evening) / Yes
  • 09-Jan-2024 (Morning) / No

 

[rcg530]

Thinkware support has stated that the battery that powers the Real-Time Clock (RTC) in the U3000 should be fully charged within a few minutes of the U3000 being power on/up. A fully charged RTC battery should be able to power the RTC for a period of two to three weeks. Since my U3000's RTC battery only powers it for 1 to 2 days between uses, it's been determined it is most likely defective. Thinkware support is having another U3000 front camera sent to me to hopefully resolve this issue.

 

[Nigel]

Thinkware support has stated that the battery that powers the Real-Time Clock (RTC) in the U3000 should be fully charged within a few minutes of the U3000 being power on/up.

That would be rather fast!

Presumably it is a lithium rechargeable?
Normal lithium batteries take most of an hour at normal charge rate, and the tiny low current lithium batteries for RTCs should be charged a lot slower, more like 24 hours for a full charge.

Obviously Thinkware support is going to know better than me though

The super capacitor should be fully charged within a few minutes...

 

[rcg530]

I received a replacement U3000 front camera (unit 4). On 01-Feb, I powered the replacement U3000 for several hours in my office to charge up the RTC clock battery. I installed the U3000 in my car. The U3000 remained powered off from 01-Feb-2024 until today 09-Feb-2024. I was sick so I wasn't driving my car. The RTC clock issue occurred again. The first four minutes of video files from today's drive had a date/time from 01-Feb-2024 just after I installed the U3000 into my car. I reported that behavior to Thinkware support.

I discovered that the internal microphone on this replacement U3000 (#4) is not working correctly. There is a low level audio "hiss" sound present in the audio track. I confirmed I have the "Voice Recording" setting turned on in the settings. I used my headphones to listen to the audio track contents. The very first file created today has a very low volume / muffled "have a safe drive today" announcement recorded. So, the U3000 was attempting to record audio, but the internal microphone is messed up in this U3000 front camera.

U3000 unit 4 has a serial number that is 10 before the serial number from unit 3 which also has the RTC battery issue. Both were manufactured in June 2023. I've reported this problem to Thinkware support as well. _bang_head_here_

 

[Panzer Platform]

_bang_head_here_

Do what Ben does, use it to brush your teeth;

@safedrivesolutions

 

[safedrivesolutions]

Do what Ben does, use it to brush your teeth;

@safedrivesolutions

Such an old video