Long Range Night Vision Camera system

[phosedy]

Hi

Because of where my job is located I drive about 700 km every week. Many of the roads I drive are in the woods without fences. There have been several accidents on these roads with people smashing into deers as they jump out of nowhere. Also more severe accidents with bigger animals as full grown Moose and Wild Boar. I had a few close calls myself. My main complaint is that the hiting and every friday when I dry home from work it is usually pitch dark. Even whith half-life and main beams for me at least, it's not enough in terms of safety. That is the reason that I want to install this night vision system in my car as I figure this would give me a clearer vision and better chances to avoid accidents.

I want to install a long range night vision system in my car. At first I found this product: https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...038.html?spm=a2700.8443308.0.0.89763e5fLsVZqf

I know that their camera is using the Sony Sony IMX322 lens. However after searching around the internet it seems very hard to find IR-cameras with a viewing distance longer than 10 - 20 which makes me wonder íf the data is inaccurate when the reading in the specs that the camera do have 100 - 200m night vision viewing distance. Please check out the link and tell me what you think.

I would like to try to build this camera setup myself from different components. I was hoping to get help from more technically advanced members here on this forum. I guess adding IR-LEDs would help lighting up dark roads during night time. But what is the actual effective range for IR-LEDs?

Yes I know, I have a several questions and I know very little about any of this. All help, pointers, anything is of great value.
If anyone know a car DVR camera or easily modded camera with the required specs pleast point me that way

So the idea is either have the IR-camera mounted in the cealing near the rearview mirror facing out front. It shall be connected to my, either by USB, RCA or preferably WIFI Android tablet that is attached on the airvents grills.

I hope someone will find this crazy project interesting.

Thanks!

 

[kamkar]

My 4 channel analog system had a 30 X optical zoom front camera, while it did not have any IR light to aid it it actually did quite well with a little light ( sony effio S box camera )

My home CCTV camera ( a 1080p PTZ IP camera have a 20 X optical zoom but hard to say how its build in IR light will do at distance as i live in the city so always some degree of light here )

For 100 M you will want something upward of 20 X optical zoom for that distance, and paired with a high performing sensor like the IMX 185 or IMX 291 as used in dashcams, and not least a good IR source you should be good.
The IMX 322 are also a okay sensor the one in my PTX camera are a even older model.
100 M range you often see for CCTV cameras, actually they can go 10 X that no problem.

Myself i would like IR camera for night driving i could then put 2 IR emitters where fog lights would be on my car ( 940 Nm wavelength as 850 are visible to the eye as a red glow and red light are not allowed on the front of Danish cars )

Starlight cameras can do insane color footage with very little light, could probably do 100 M too just with the regular light of a car not to mention high beams.

 

[phosedy]

Hello kamkar1 and thank you very much for your fast and helpful reply.

As I wrote previosly I have alot of questions and I guess there will me more once I buy the components need and trying to put everything together. But at this point i am very confused. I searched for IMX

So from my unterstand I should go with the IMX291 censor and I severetal different types and it's just a complete jungle to me. Here are a few links of what I found:



So I am guessing that I will need a few of the modules. Some of them have camera installed, some have other features. It's hard to choose for me.
Once we have chosed which components that are going to work together they I guess there will be som soldering. I want to put the camera in some kind of housing. and attach it near the ner the windscreen. If it is possible I want to remove the Volvo brand shield from the front of the car. And repleace it with a small hatch that you can open and close electronically. Please help me and tell me which ones to Choose of the links in the bottom of this mail.. I really have no clue.




IMX291 Module

IMX291 Module

IMX291 Module

IMX291 Module

IMN291 Module

IMX291 Module

IMX291 Modul

My fog lights are broken and I never get around to fix it. So it could be a pretty smart idea to place IR-LEDs there instead. So there is no IR LEDs that is not visible by the eye and therefor not allowed to place where the floodlights should have been? I might do it anyway. But at the same time, you just turn them om if you meet another car. Does strong IR-LEDs helps and light up enough so that you can actually drive in pitch dark?

Is it possible to connect and controll the IMX291 camers ZOOM via WIFI or Android GUI?

 

[Nigel]

IR lights work the same way as normal lights, if you want to reach 1 meter then you can use a very small one, if you want to reach 100 meters then you need car headlight sized ones, and if you want to reach 200 meters then you need 4x more power than normal car headlights.

However, with 100 watt IR lights you would have a serious safety problem, anyone walking passed while they were on might be permanently blinded, so IR lamps to reach 200 meters is not acceptable.

In any case, these sensors, even though they do see IR light, are more sensitive to visual light than IR light and so you would be better off installing some higher power spotlights on your car, and then you would also be able to see better with your eyes as well.

The only reason to use IR lights is if you don't want the light to be visible to humans, as in security cameras where people would complain if you left powerful visual lights on all night.

I find normal car headlights perfectly adequate for deer, you either see them in plenty of time, or they jump out at the last second and you still hit them even if it is daylight and sunny! The last one that hit my car didn't even jump at the last second, it jumped as I was passing and head-butted my passenger door during daylight!

 

[phosedy]

Thanks Nigel for your reply.

I understand your point and of course I dont want to injure or put other drivers to risk.

Im thinking of installing dahua starlight camera, either in the car behind the grill. From my understanding there are no need for IR-LEDs with that camera. Do you know anything about the cameras?

 

[kamkar]

I have one of those module cameras ( even thing its SMTSEC )
Getting firmware update to it have proven hard to do, and the format it record in on its memory card i cant play with anything i have.
I got mine as i wanted to use it as a recorder on my airrifle sight in combination with my DIY night vision goggles, but that have never been possible to do, so i stick it on my NVR / CCTV at home, and there it perform well as my "keep a eye on the street blow camera"
If a similar module had a wifi board ( i think its possible ) i am not aware of how it would work or how app support would be, normally with apps and wifi cameras it seem to be problematic to put it nice.

I will try and pull some footage / pics from my cameras tonight when it have become dark.

You cant get some BOX IP cameras with build in zoom, but not sure if they can fit in between a grill front badge / latch and the radiator, my Analog camera i had in my car was mounted in front of the mirror as i got plenty room there + it den have viper coverage too.

 

[country_hick]

Behind the grille mounting will result in a dirty lens especially in winter driving.
There is a lot of dirt in the air. You may even pit the camera lens.

 

[kamkar]

For sure you will want something between the elements and the actual camera lens, and probably something you can replace often as it might get scratched from cleaning.

My friend always had spider problems on his CCTV cameras, i on the other hand have never had that on my one outside camera.
And it is also less often i have to clean my lens as my camera are on the top of my balcony door, shaded by the balcony in the apartment above me, where as my friends cameras are all out there in the wind and rain ASO

 

[phosedy]

IR lights work the same way as normal lights, if you want to reach 1 meter then you can use a very small one, if you want to reach 100 meters then you need car headlight sized ones, and if you want to reach 200 meters then you need 4x more power than normal car headlights.!

What about 940nm IR lights that are not detectable to the human eye? What is the actual range that these are illuminate? Would it be possible to replace the fog light with hard mounted IR flashlights? Wouldn't they be able to work better illuminating long range? However they would need a good spread like 60-70°.

I find normal car headlights perfectly adequate for deer, you either see them in plenty of time, or they jump out at the last second and you still hit them even if it is daylight and sunny! The last one that hit my car didn't even jump at the last second, it jumped as I was passing and head-butted my passenger door during daylight!

The car headlight are adequate but adding extra safey is never wrong. I must also admit that I like the idea of driving the car stealth in total darkness, I know it's childish but hey we are all deep down nerds with weird ideas. ;-)
Obviusly I would not drive on roads or in situations where I would risk the safety or health of others.

 

[phosedy]

I have one of those module cameras ( even thing its SMTSEC )
Getting firmware update to it have proven hard to do, and the format it record in on its memory card i cant play with anything i have.
I got mine as i wanted to use it as a recorder on my airrifle sight in combination with my DIY night vision goggles, but that have never been possible to do, so i stick it on my NVR / CCTV at home, and there it perform well as my "keep a eye on the street blow camera"
If a similar module had a wifi board ( i think its possible ) i am not aware of how it would work or how app support would be, normally with apps and wifi cameras it seem to be problematic to put it nice.

I will try and pull some footage / pics from my cameras tonight when it have become dark.

You cant get some BOX IP cameras with build in zoom, but not sure if they can fit in between a grill front badge / latch and the radiator, my Analog camera i had in my car was mounted in front of the mirror as i got plenty room there + it den have viper coverage too.

Thanks once again for all your replies and pardon me for my late reply.

Really cool project with your camera build and putting it in the car kamkar1. To be honest I read some of your previos posts on this forum regarding this matter and that made me post on this forum as well. Thnk you for the video you uploaded. Looks really cool!

There is several censors from SONY: IMX178, IMX 291, IMX 239, IMX 323. Which one of the is best quality in terms of being effective and giving good picture in low light condtions (night, darkness) and do they work together with externally mounted IR Lights? I guess no one of these cameras can give any picture at all in total pitch darkness with IR-Lights?
Zoom option would be nice and even better if you could connect the camera/or software so that when increasing speed the camera automatically zooms further down the road. Similiar to this one: Protruly Night Vision Camera
That would require some kind of programming, connection with the ADBII so that it can detect changes in speed and an algorithm telling it to zoom in and out depending on the speed of the car.
If I go with a module based camera with good specs from AliExpress I will build and camerahousing (or use and old one) and place it next to the rearview in the windshield.

So from I am thinking wright now Is that I could try to install som kind of hard mounted IR FLashlight in the fog lights compartment. However I dont to just ductape one IR flashlight in there, I want to buy components in spare ports so that I can build my own mountable housing.

Another Idea is to hard mount a 940nm IR LED bar here in the following picture and connect them to the fog lights so that I can switch them on and off from inside the car. However the need to be able to illuminate/give good IR vision at least 50 - 60M (hopefully more) in front of me. Example of IR LED bar:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.126.df0164030qZBnv
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...l?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.12.df0164030qZBnv



It would obviously be interesting to use a Thermal camera but that's a little to expensive and therefore a later project
What do you think of me ideas? What Sony Sensor should I go for? All opinions is are welcome here.

 

[kamkar]

For the CCTV cameras ( 1080P ) i only know of the starvis sensors, mostly IMX 185 and 291 as i mentioned are used.

The IMX 185 camera module i have in my living room window also have a BNC plug, not aware if its also a HD signal on it ( many cameras seem to de dual mode supporting 1 or 2 different ways of getting footage of them )
As it also evident by the hybrid recorders that support more than 1 way of connecting cameras.
There was very little info where i got the camera module from, so unsure what plug is what and where to get a firmware update.

All the CCTV bokses i have owned ( the analog mobile one and a home analog one + my current NVR are all 12 V ) so aside for environmental concerns ( temperatures & moisture ) they should be easy to install in a car.
And you can get little HDMI flat screens too, and most boxses also have a VGA or what ever the old screen plugs are called.



So i would go got a mini bullet or box shape, self contained and waterproof camera, the interface could be network or SDI.
But this should be the smallest possible so its fairly easy to build in the front of car or in front of mirror in traditional dashcam location.

 

[phosedy]

For the CCTV cameras ( 1080P ) i only know of the starvis sensors, mostly IMX 185 and 291 as i mentioned are used.

The IMX 185 camera module i have in my living room window also have a BNC plug, not aware if its also a HD signal on it ( many cameras seem to de dual mode supporting 1 or 2 different ways of getting footage of them )
As it also evident by the hybrid recorders that support more than 1 way of connecting cameras.
There was very little info where i got the camera module from, so unsure what plug is what and where to get a firmware update.

All the CCTV bokses i have owned ( the analog mobile one and a home analog one + my current NVR are all 12 V ) so aside for environmental concerns ( temperatures & moisture ) they should be easy to install in a car.
And you can get little HDMI flat screens too, and most boxses also have a VGA or what ever the old screen plugs are called.

View attachment 37449



So i would go got a mini bullet or box shape, self contained and waterproof camera, the interface could be network or SDI.
But this should be the smallest possible so its fairly easy to build in the front of car or in front of mirror in traditional dashcam location.

Thanks once again for your reply kamkar1.

Can you please send me a few links of good cameras that you think would be suitable? What is the viewing angle of the camera that you have in your car

If you have time - please answer these questions:

What do you think is the best solution for the 940nm IR Lights?
If I buy a IR LED Bar and place it behind the lower grill it wont be easily discovered. However I'm uncertain how long range/x meters they vould illuminate. That is why I was thinking of building my own IR Led Flashlights since these have an adjustable linse that can focus. But If I go with the IR Flashlight I run into the problem that I have stop the car, go down on my knees and then stick my hand in where the foglights used to be, and physically change the lens. I would need for that the to be motor controlled as and with remote activation.

Is there any modification I could the to the IR LED Bars to increasy the illumination range?

 

[kamkar]

I would just have to google, its been a long while since i last looked at CCTV equipment.

Unsure on the 940Nm lights, i have a tiny one meant for hinting with night scopes but it dont generate enough light as least not when seen thru the scope of my air-rifle.
I am unsure if you can get bullet or box shaped cameras with adaptive light like on PTZ cameras, on mine its also just different lights in pairs of 2 that turn on weather ot is short - med or long range.
I have a zoomable strong 840 Nm ir light, but its pretty large 60 mm in diameter and 150 mm or so long, and it is just manual zoom, i cant say i have ever seen a IR light witha zoom motor on it, i do think it is there for extreme long range CCTV cameras, but then its also very expensive, probably more than the thermal cameras you can get for cars.

I would think on a car if you use the fog light location, maybe have one light for the shorter distances and another one for the long distance viewing.

The cameras i have in my car now are all regular dashcams, they have a FOV of 120 degrees ( horizontal ) so they are useless for anything more than 10 M away, i also have a camera with a 12 MM lens for long range.

New year some years ago on my PTZ camera

Some one got cop visit

 

[rafael.viana]

Hi @kamkar1!

I see in forum you’re experienced in this area. I’m new here and I’m looking for a dash cam to use in my car to capture license plates (day and night) with any kind of real time video output (HDMI/VGA/WIFI) for a budget at most $150.

Can you tell more about setup used in the video norm x 12mm? Camera model? Lens?

 

[kamkar]

The camera i use for my long range camera are the old Joovuu X camera, that is a type much like the mobius cameras, i dont think the x cameras sell or have any kind of support anymore.
I am planning to move the lens to my Mobius Maxi son as the x camera are acting a little weird now.
Also it is a bad idea to use just one camera with a lens like the 12 mm i use, as you can see in the video the field of view are narrow, and capturing plates well the problems are still the same but with the 12 mm lens i can read plates at a distance, but a little further out and i can not read them, just like with a regular wide angle lens.
But having 2 cameras i can read plates close to my car and a little further out, so the distance on which i have to get lucky are double the size.

Using a "Zoom" lens like the 12 mm dont mean the camera are any better at capturing plates at night, if it is, it is only very little better, but in general plates at night are impossible with dashcams and vehicles at normal speed.

I got my lens from Paeu productions in the USA that sell after market lenses for action cameras ( same kind of lenses dashcams and CCTV cameras use ) my lens are for 3 megapixel, and they dont seel to sell it any more.

In the mobius forum there are threads about experimenting with other lenses.

 

[viperman_69]

just buy a dedicated thermal camera system for your car

 

[kamkar]

Thermal cameras are just about something for ordinary people now, but they are SD resolution.