M2 footage dash and action

[dirkzelf]

No it dont have the timed mode, and i forgot to ask peter is it was possible in my last mail to him.

Ill try to remember it for next time, cuz it is a cool feature for a dual mode camera.

As i understand it the advanced image settings are global, so changes there will work on both mode 1 and 2

Would be nice to set advanced options for the 2 modes separately..... remember at some point there was a discussion on that in the M1 forum too?

It'd be interesting to hear more about a timed mode or some sort of intelligence in the camera to do it all for us automatically....

 

[Isoprop]

No i am not using WDR, its pretty much standard settings i use.
And i dont feel like what good WDR may do for day footage is offset by what it do for the low light footage

I wish i had 2 cameras cuz thats really the best way of comparing and seeing what a setting change might do bad for the footage, at least when it come to 1080/30 footage, 1080/60 + WDR dont seem to suffer in the same degree.

But even without WDR i have a lot of noise in low light footage and some flickering between 2 iso values or exposure timings as if the camera cant decide which setting to use some times.

But i should say i have not tried WDR again with 2.02.01 firmware.

Don't bother testing 2.02.01, you will still see the flickering. Tom Frank from RCG thinks he may have found the setting that causes the low-light flickering. If you use 1080p@30fps, don't use the 50Hz. setting until the issue has been solved.
The 50Hz. setting doesn't seem to affect 1080p@60fps or WDR.

 

[TonyM]

Don't bother testing 2.02.01, you will still see the flickering. Tom Frank from RCG thinks he may have found the setting that causes the low-light flickering. If you use 1080p@30fps, don't use the 50Hz. setting until the issue has been solved.
The 50Hz. setting doesn't seem to affect 1080p@60fps or WDR.

Tom & I have conducted the testing - he only observed the flickering when I sent him my config file, which is when we found that my 50Hz setting made a difference compared to the 60Hz he was using. And yes, it's still there on FW2.02.01. We're not sure if or how the metering affects whether the flickering is apparent. However it does seem to be sensitive to the ambient light level which is making it difficult for me to reliably replicate the problem, even with the car stationary in a parking bay.

 

[jokiin]

Problem with 50hz has been there since release, I reported it a few months ago to Peter

 

[TonyM]

Problem with 50hz has been there since release, I reported it a few months ago to Peter

Yes, but you also said that the flickering that I'm seeing looks different to that which you observed in the earlier firmware.

Strange flicker/strobe at 50Hz setting (UK) recording at 1080p30 with WDR on FW2.02. Is this similar to the flicker you saw in the earlier firmware?

no, that's new, try setting WDR off maybe and see if you get the same results

 

[jokiin]

It's far worse than before but not as consistent, not the same type of issue but it did only seem to happen when set to 50hz so possibly either directly related to the prior issue or a side effect from whatever they've changed, firmware can be frustrating like that sometimes, fix one problem and introduce a new problem

 

[Isoprop]

Tom & I have conducted the testing - he only observed the flickering when I sent him my config file, which is when we found that my 50Hz setting made a difference compared to the 60Hz he was using. And yes, it's still there on FW2.02.01. We're not sure if or how the metering affects whether the flickering is apparent. However it does seem to be sensitive to the ambient light level which is making it difficult for me to reliably replicate the problem, even with the car stationary in a parking bay.

Yes, that's why the config file is so convenient for finding these types of issues. With so many settings it's all but impossible to replicate a problem unless we have the exact same settings. I believe Tom has also sent you his test results.

This afternoon I used your settings and can also duplicate the flashing when there is no artificial lighting involved. It doesn't happen when I use 60Hz.

I've been using the M2 as a dashcam for many months now but have never seen the flickering. Not surprising, since I always use 1080p @60fps.

Don't know what happend to @jokiin's report. Maybe it got lost or couldn't be replicated.

 

[kamkar]

I can make that flickering using both 60 and 50 Hz setting.
And yeah it is in a dark context as its in my living room and just the TV going and a couple of mini spots on a lamp in the corner, i have not seen it in the daytime but like isoprop i have mostly been using 1080/60

it seem to appear with just the right amount of light coming off my TV, cuz most of my recordings of the living room corner with the TV do not have the flickering.

 

[dirkzelf]

I can make that flickering using both 60 and 50 Hz setting.
And yeah it is in a dark context as its in my living room and just the TV going and a couple of mini spots on a lamp in the corner, i have not seen it in the daytime but like isoprop i have mostly been using 1080/60

it seem to appear with just the right amount of light coming off my TV, cuz most of my recordings of the living room corner with the TV do not have the flickering.

100Hz TV?

 

[kamkar]

I have no idea, its a old TV model 42LH5000, all i do know is any"smart" features in it is not turned on.

 

[Isoprop]

I have no idea, its a old TV model 42LH5000, all i do know is any"smart" features in it is not turned on.

It looks as if your TV is a good test candidate for when the first beta version which addresses this issue is released

 

[kamkar]

Yes i will try to have some footage to play on the TV that have a constant brightness, so i can better compare apples to apples.

Also been thinking where i might be able to do the same test in a more natural environment, but so far i have not come up with something good.

 

[TonyM]

Yes, that's why the config file is so convenient for finding these types of issues. With so many settings it's all but impossible to replicate a problem unless we have the exact same settings. I believe Tom has also sent you his test results.

This afternoon I used your settings and can also duplicate the flashing when there is no artificial lighting involved. It doesn't happen when I use 60Hz.

I've been using the M2 as a dashcam for many months now but have never seen the flickering. Not surprising, since I always use 1080p @60fps.

Don't know what happend to @jokiin's report. Maybe it got lost or couldn't be replicated.

Tom has updated me on both his and your test findings. It sounds like you can repeat the flashing in low level ambient light, which means the issue is not directly related to the frequency of artificial lighting in a specific country. However the 50Hz setting is causing some exposure instability in the camera.

 

[kamkar]

yes thats my guess too, its like the camera cant decide which of 2 settings for either ISO or exposure to use, so it get a little stuck changing in between the 2

I would never bother with signs and what not flickering, i normally set my cameras to 50Hz but still i often see flickering signs, but really i couldn't care less with stuff like that.

Off course it would be a pain to watch if the street light was flickering like a maniac, and i do think thats the primary reason for having these 2 options in dashcams.

 

[Isoprop]

Tom has updated me on both his and your test findings. It sounds like you can repeat the flashing in low level ambient light, which means the issue is not directly related to the frequency of artificial lighting in a specific country. However the 50Hz setting is causing some exposure instability in the camera.

You are right, we've found out it has nothing to do with the frequency of the artificial lighting. Now that we've pinpointed exactly when it happens it's easy to test, but most likely not so easy to resolve. I believe the developer is now working on the issue with top priority.
I'm pleased to hear that Tom's keeping you updated, after all, it was your config file that enabled us to replicate the problem.

 

[jokiin]

Don't know what happend to @jokiin's report. Maybe it got lost or couldn't be replicated.

it was acknowledged and it was fixed in part so I'm sure it wasn't lost, just something deeper going on I guess, I didn't test the later update as I was out of the country for a month and didn't take the camera with me so no chance for me to retest, it (the initial problem) was something which was only showing issue when using 50Hz so it would have been easily overlooked by most of the usual contributors I would think

 

[TonyM]

Taken this morning in completely overcast conditions, trying out the upper-weighted metering option introduced in the latest firmware update.. The recorded video appears under-exposed on average, whilst the cloud detail is quite good with no blown out highlights - which is exactly what I would expect from upper-weighted metering that's based on the sky and not the dash/road in the lower half. It's probably a bit too dark compared to centre-weighted in these conditions.

When the sun comes out again, I plan to test the whole range of new metering options side-by-side.

 

[c4rc4m]

There's more to a dash cam than just image quality. Three of the advantages that the original Mobius still has over some other cameras are: 1) small size & many mounting options, 2) extensive options to customise the recording modes, and 3) very good reliability. If the M2 can deliver those attributes in addition to offering image quality on par with class leading cameras, then I'll be happy to keep it in my car.

Image quality to me is everything.

I can live with size provided it's not a full size professional TV cam hanging off my window or passenger seat:

I can live without customised modes if it produces perfect video - no need for customisation if it's perfect!

Reliability, well yes that is important, but most cameras are reasonably reliable.

However, what I can't live with is poor picture quality in either day or night. Those pictures from the M2 above at night opposite the pub are absolutely atrocious!

I'd happily pay £200 or maybe even £250 if the camera delivered BBC Picture quality out of the other end was a reasonable size and reliable. I'd even live with camcorder sized if the picture was good. The trouble is as we've seen through our journey through these threads, there's hardly a cam out there that can read a number plate at 20 feet. A large number of cams are downright blurry or noisy in either day or night footage.

For me the company that delivers a crystal clear picture with a focal point not on the dashboard, that doesn't suffer excessive speed blur or pixelation when the going gets tough, will be the winner.

 

[Dashmellow]

Reliability, well yes that is important, but most cameras are reasonably reliable.

I don't know quite how you reach some of your conclusions I often see posted here but many DCT members like me who have had hands on experience with a wide range of different dash cams going back many years will tell you that a great many of them are NOT reliable at all as numerous individuals have learned to their dismay only after the fact when the vital footage they thought they had captured was not. Among many of the attributes that you seem to find superfluous but that many find indispensable is that the Mobius has proven itself time and time again to be one of the most rugged and dependable on the market and therein lies much of the attraction and word of mouth popularity of the brand.

 

[kamkar]

And some of have realized that plate capture on even the best cameras are something of a roll of the dice, i am not bothered by it at all, but if one of my cameras could capture a plate when needed i would be thankful.
But as it is now i only expect to be able to capture a plate under normal road conditions in bright sunshine from the right angle, the coming months i dont have much hope for capturing any plates due to the standard for Danish weather this time of the year.