A329 Improvement Wishlist

[kamkar]

I wouldn’t know what to do with 10 bit if it jumped and bit me in the groin.

 

[Augustus]

I wouldn’t know what to do with 10 bit if it jumped and bit me in the groin.

Lol it's about what you see with it.

 

[Nigel]

I wouldn’t know what to do with 10 bit if it jumped and bit me in the groin.

Remember when VGA resolution was 4 bit, with just 2 brightness levels for each colour?
8 bit is much better, it has 256 different brightness levels per colour,
10 bit is even better, it has 1024 brightness levels per colour.

For a standard SDR screen with 100 nits brightness, 8 bit was sufficient brightness levels, your eyes couldn't see more, but with screens getting brighter, and HDR screens reaching 1000 nits brightness, you need more brightness levels, otherwise you see banding in the sky and pixelation in the shadows, and a number plate hidden in the shadows becomes hard to read because in deep shadow it may only have. 4 brightness levels, it becomes only old 4 bit VGA quality. Current dashcams solve this problem by over exposing the sky, to give more brightness levels to the shadows. 10 bit will allow dashcams to have nice skies and other bright areas, while still recording decent detail in the shadows.

 

[xnsys]

For a dash-cam though, as long as you can see the license plate, and what happened - the picture quality is not so essential - if you are using it to create content for YouTube and other channels, then, yes, the higher the quality, the better.

Thanks for all the H265 replies - wasn't aware of the licensing - there's always something getting in the way...

For keeping the A329 powered, for those looking for a simple solution - I've got one of thoseUSB-C power banks, I have that connected between the lighter socket and the dash-cam - takes about 4 hours to charge while driving, but can also take it indoors and charge it there - gives me 24 hours of recording without impacting the car battery.

 

[Augustus]

Remember when VGA resolution was 4 bit, with just 2 brightness levels for each colour?
8 bit is much better, it has 256 different brightness levels per colour,
10 bit is even better, it has 1024 brightness levels per colour.

For a standard SDR screen with 100 nits brightness, 8 bit was sufficient brightness levels, your eyes couldn't see more, but with screens getting brighter, and HDR screens reaching 1000 nits brightness, you need more brightness levels, otherwise you see banding in the sky and pixelation in the shadows, and a number plate hidden in the shadows becomes hard to read because in deep shadow it may only have. 4 brightness levels, it becomes only old 4 bit VGA quality. Current dashcams solve this problem by over exposing the sky, to give more brightness levels to the shadows. 10 bit will allow dashcams to have nice skies and other bright areas, while still recording decent detail in the shadows.

That's true but probably too technical for the normal user. Easiest way to put it is when I first started watching HDR10 movies in 2016 - whites were hell bright and it was a revelation. It is hard to describe in person until you just watch it and see.

Since it is becoming the norm in video capture on mobile phones, will be the same with dashcams in the next few years for sure. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Nigel]

That's true but probably too technical for the normal user. Easiest way to put it is when I first started watching HDR10 movies in 2016 - whites were hell bright and it was a revelation. It is hard to describe in person until you just watch it and see.

Since it is becoming the norm in video capture on mobile phones, will be the same with dashcams in the next few years for sure. Nothing wrong with that.

You can have the "whites were hell bright" on a sunny day with 8 bit dashcams, but then you either don't have much detail in the clouds at the start of this video, or further on in this video, you don't have any detail in the shadows along the wall and train. Squash the brightness back down to normal SDR and it looks OK, but then it is not a bright sunny day:

Sunny day on the A139 Pro in HDR (If played on an HDR screen), this would look a lot nicer in 10 bit, and you would have some detail in the shadows, which is deffinitely lacking in this, but it is a nice bright sunny day:

 

[Augustus]

You can have the "whites were hell bright" on a sunny day with 8 bit dashcams, but then you either don't have much detail in the clouds at the start of this video, or further on in this video, you don't have any detail in the shadows along the wall and train. Squash the brightness back down to normal SDR and it looks OK, but then it is not a bright sunny day:

Sunny day on the A139 Pro in HDR (If played on an HDR screen), this would look a lot nicer in 10 bit, and you would have some detail in the shadows, which is deffinitely lacking in this, but it is a nice bright sunny day:

Not talking about the exposure, I'm talking about watching it back on a TV/display where it gets much brighter in nits.

 

[kamkar]

My 32" PC screen is HDR certified,,,,, like lower class HDR but i think just fine when you sit right in front of it.

When Nigel post steamer videos, my brain skip right to this excellent live album.
and me immediately also thinking " i wish i had been at the venerable marquee club that night "

There was a old saying " you are not a band before you have played the marquee club "

For none steam aficionados L&N = London to Newcastle route.

 

[Nigel]

My 32" PC screen is HDR certified,,,,, like lower class HDR but i think just fine when you sit right in front of it.

That just means that you have to watch it at night with the lights off to see the HDR details properly. And have a PC that outputs HDR video.

 

[kamkar]

Indeed, always low light in my apartment, though in the daytime, some light of course find its way thru the always shut blinds.
Living room window right behind me sitting here at PC, so do not want any annoying reflections, and i an not as wide as screen so i can not block it with my body.

 

[Papylon]

The A329 3CH will also be realized soon, please keep tuned.

Could you provide more details on this? Are we talking about a matter of weeks or months?
I’m holding off on purchasing the A329 because it only has two cameras, whereas I need three – front, interior, and rear.

 

[-orion-]

Could you provide more details on this? Are we talking about a matter of weeks or months?
I’m holding off on purchasing the A329 because it only has two cameras, whereas I need three – front, interior, and rear.

Please bear in mind that if the a329 3rd Channel is set up as in the a229 pro the bitrate of the main camera is significantly cut (almost by half) to accomodate the data from 3rd cam. Perhaps viofo support can clarify.

 

[Chuck McCoy]

if the a329 3rd Channel is set up as in the a229 pro the bitrate of the main camera is significantly cut (almost by half) to accomodate the data from 3rd cam.

When the IR Interior camera is connected to the A229 Pro the Front camera's Bitrate drops from 65Mbps to 36Mbps.
However, when the rear camera is connected the front camera's Bitrate is unchanged.
This is because the rear camera has it's own processor.

If for some reason Viofo released an IR Interior camera that pugs into the HDMI output port, (which I hope they don't because I dislike all these different remote camera cable connectors, and I wish they would standardize all remote cameras with the same cable connector) they might be able to stuff a processor inside the IR Interior cameras housing, thus not affecting the front camera's Bitrate.
But, the A229 Pro IR Interior cameras is already jam packed because they had to remove 2 of the "regular" 6 IR LED Emitters to make room for the light sensor that let it switch from daytime color, to night time B&W.

Post in thread 'VIOFO Horizontal FOV Database'

Nov 28, 2023

the difference in the viewing angle of the A139 IR mode compared to the viewing angle of the A229 Pro/Plus IR mode is that there are 4 IR LEDs instead of 6 IR LEDs.

Correct
A229 Pro IR FOV: 84°
A139 Pro IR FOV: 98°

• Chuck McCoy

• 

 

[Chuck McCoy]

I’m holding off on purchasing the A329 because it only has two cameras, whereas I need three – front, interior, and rear.

Welcome to the club.
What about Telephoto to read license plates, would you like that option too?

 

[-orion-]

Welcome to the club.
What about Telephoto to read license plates, would you like that option too?

Perhaps an option to adjust the shutter speed would be beneficial. Look at the test video below, especially @ 1:04 The mikavi camera is 30% cheaper and demolished the a329 with regards to license plate legibility. I think it May be due to too long exposure time

I`m appaled with how badly the a329 performed in the test above. Less hope they'll fix it with some firmware update, @VIOFO-Support, can you try to match the license legibility of the mikavi pq8 which costs less than $300 with your newest $400 flagship?

 

[viofo]

Perhaps an option to adjust the shutter speed would be beneficial. Look at the test video below, especially @ 1:04 The mikavi camera is 30% cheaper and demolished the a329 with regards to license plate legibility. I think it May be due to too long exposure time

I`m appaled with how badly the a329 performed in the test above. Less hope they'll fix it with some firmware update, @VIOFO-Support, can you try to match the license legibility of the mikavi pq8 which costs less than $300 with your newest $400 flagship?

We have completed the optimization and comparison on our side.
For their comparison, I don't know why they keep using the 1600P mode on viofo dashcams instead of the default 2160P mode.

 

[kamkar]

The Mikavi do seem to expose a bit faster, judging by the also slightly darker footage, maybe it use a different ISO / exposure combination to get to that result.
I would for sure never use a camera in less than its native mode.

 

[Predat0r]

They also were using the original 241009 firmware on the A329. The newest firmware is much improved. But it does seem strange that 30 gps gives less motion blur than 60fps. I’m a bit skeptical.

 

[kamkar]

30 / 60 fps dont mean much on the individual frame, other than having different rock bottom exposure timings, so a 30 fps camera can choose to use ISO 800 and 1:1000 exposure where the 60 fps camera might choose ISO1200 but 1::500 second exposure.

I would assume dashcams would be programmed to when in doubt use the fastest possible exposure time, but then testing 2 similar cameras with only the 30/60 FPS frame rate being the difference and i saw it was extremely rare the 30 FPS camera missed a detail the 60 FPS camera captured.
So since then i have not cared much for 60 FPS in dashcams, though at the time i did think it would be the next big thing in dashcams.

I have absolutely no idea how a camera prioritize the parameters for a shot, and it get even worse if you also have a aperture to throw into the mix like on SLR cameras. and not forgetting EV that i suppose cameras can also meddle with on their own.

 

[-orion-]

We have completed the optimization and comparison on our side.
For their comparison, I don't know why they keep using the 1600P mode on viofo dashcams instead of the default 2160P mode.

They use the cinematic aspect ratio because cropping the sky and hood doesnt lose anything important and decreases file size. This is not scaling nor interpolation but just ignoring part of the sensor so shouldnt affect image quality, or am I wrong? I have been using the 21÷9 cinematic AR in my a3292ch since day one and love the feature but If it makes plates so illegible then its not usable in a dashcam.

Can you explain why do you think that usung 3840/1600 is harming plate legibility?

Would it be possible to give users control over the exposure time in the future ?

@Panzer Platform, @rcg530 , can you give your expert opinion on this issue?