Boxing day near death experience for a wee doggy

[Scot Driver]

 

[EliRDA]

Okay, I think those are not USA signs so you can correct me... the pedestrian crossing sign, is that not a yield to peds sign?
As in, you have to stop to let pedestrains cross?

We have them in many of the little towns here in delaware, lots of the tourists ignore them during summer season. I peeve off a lot of them when I come to stops because I see the peds standing at the curb because people wont stop for them even though its our law in the state. I think I remember hearing that more usa states are adding that law also.
It took me a few times running the video to actually see that lil white doggie, course the owner is a butthole for not keeping the lease tighter/dog closer to him/her.

Idiots on both sides there IMHO 8-(

 

[Dee_82]

The sign is a caution, pedestrian cross, its not a stop sign and its not an official crossing anyway, in effect is just warning that there are people around.

The driver does obviously have a duty of care to not run people over, but pedestrians should know that these crossings are not giving them the right of way, cars do not need to stop. zebra crosses, which are only zebra crossing if they have bother the black and white crossings AND the yellow lollipop, are the only other crossing in addition to actual stop lights that drivers must stop at. Supermarkets are often guilt of confusing people by putting the black and white marks on the floor which makes pedestrians believe they have right of way.

 

[Dee_82]

just watched it again, the pedestrian walked out in front of the car assuming the car must stop, it doesn't, walking across that type of crossing is no different than walking across a road, you wouldn't walk out in front of a car then but because the pedestrian assumed wrongly that it was a zebra crossing he just walked out.

Course the drive should have kept all this in mind, but legally, he had the right of way and didn't need to stop

 

[sludgeguts]

It's not an official crossing, simply an extension of the suggested walking route.
Even on roads, a car does not have to stop for a pedestrian who is waiting, (HC says you must stop for pedestrians already on the crossing & tells pedestrians that they must wait for vehicles to stop) but in this instance, the pedestrian is halfway across. Had the driver hit the dog, I'm fairly certain he'd be in a whole heap of trouble.
Since this is private land, nobody has right of way - it's shared space. However, a driver does have a duty of care and in this instance, he/she had more than adequate opportunity to stop.

 

[Aero]

Generally a pedestrian will wait at the crossing, and generally the driver will stop when they see them waiting. It's all about gentlemanly conduct. People forget this in favour of entitlement

 

[Rajagra]

It's on private land, so it's not officially a zebra crossing, whether there are Belisha beacons or not.
Nobody had right of way, it's not a public road so most laws don't apply (I think drink driving is one exception now?)

Having said that, any driver who sees a zebra-like crossing and doesn't treat it like one is a menace.
If any rules apply it's the ones laid down by the land owners, and they put a crossing there.
The odd thing here is the car may have slowed down for the people crossing. After they started crossing the driver seemed to change his mind and continue on.
Driver: 100% in the wrong.
Pedestrians: Not careful enough, the lead man didn't look both ways before crossing, hence was looking the wrong way when he finally looked right.

But I'm on the pedestrians' side here.

 

[GTA Driver]

In Ontario, a new law came into effect this year. On pedestrian controlled walkways, cars must remain stop until the pedestrians completely crossed the road. This is NOT a pedestrian controlled walkway, but if I were driving I would remain stopped entirely.

A few years ago, I stopped at a walkway without pedestrian controlled lights on a residential street at a school zone ... though outside of school hours to let a young family cross with dogs. As a I stopped, a car over took me nearly hitting the young family. I would only take a few seconds to let the family cross.

Caution should always be practised around young kids and pets. Nothing is that important as not to stop. Having said that, I make eye contact with drivers when I walk my dogs.

 

[Rajagra]

There does seem to be a problem that some pedestrians just assume that a slow moving vehicle is about to stop. Or maybe they simply assume it is safe to step in front and force them to stop.
This is one of my bugbears about too-low speed limits (London is covered with 20mph limits now.) Where there are 5mph limits like in that car park it's even more predictable.

I had this happen yesterday. I genuinely didn't see her until the last second and had to slam on the brakes. People wearing black clothes at night should be more careful.

I've mentioned before how mothers with babies have lost the ability to cross the road safely. Must be something to do with the childbirth process.

 

[DT MI]

The whole 'pedestrian right-of-way' issue is fraught with misunderstandings, misinformation. Michigan has a PROW law that everyone assumes means that peds have the ROW under in all situations which is entirely incorrect.

Michigan: Vehicles must yield the right-of-way to pedestrians within a crosswalk that are in the same half of the roadway as the vehicle or when a pedestrian is approaching closely enough from the opposite side of the roadway to be in danger. Pedestrians may not suddenly leave the curb and enter a crosswalk into the path of a moving vehicle that is so close the vehicle is unable to yield. Pedestrians must yield the right-of-way to vehicles when crossing outside of a marked crosswalk at an intersection.

The above from this site which summarizes the PROW laws for all states - http://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/pedestrian-crossing-50-state-summary.aspx. Naturally they are all different which just adds to the confusion.

The above summary is not a quote as Michigan law states 'legally within a crosswalk' so being in a crosswalk against a red light leaves the pedestrian with no legal defense. Michigan also prohibits interfering with the flow of traffic by any means, including the use of your person. So a ped stepping onto a motorway and causing traffic to slow, stop or change direction could (and should) be cited.

 

[Module 79L]

How do you know every shopping mall, supermarket, superstore's car park is private? I used to think so until I recently found out every surface car park around here is public!

 

[Rajagra]

How do you know every shopping mall, supermarket, superstore's car park is private?

By reading the small print on the parking restriction signs. Sometimes they are controlled by the supermarket themselves but more often the task is outsourced to a specialist private company even when the land is owned by the supermarket.
My job involves visiting supermarkets and sometimes exceeding the allowed waiting times so I need to work around these things.

Sometimes it's hard to tell precisely where public road ends and private road begins (as in this video.) But where a crossing is very different to the legal standard, that's a giveaway.

 

[Module 79L]

At least you have that legal standard. Over here, if it crosses any roadway and has white stripes it's a crossing, be it on private or public spaces.

 

[Dee_82]

It's on private land, so it's not officially a zebra crossing, whether there are Belisha beacons or not.
Nobody had right of way, it's not a public road so most laws don't apply (I think drink driving is one exception now?)

Having said that, any driver who sees a zebra-like crossing and doesn't treat it like one is a menace.
If any rules apply it's the ones laid down by the land owners, and they put a crossing there.
The odd thing here is the car may have slowed down for the people crossing. After they started crossing the driver seemed to change his mind and continue on.
Driver: 100% in the wrong.
Pedestrians: Not careful enough, the lead man didn't look both ways before crossing, hence was looking the wrong way when he finally looked right.

But I'm on the pedestrians' side here.

right
The driver should have stopped as its the right thing to do but the pedestrian walked out without a care in the world assuming its a zebra crossing, assumptions get people killed.

One, all fake zebra crossings should be removed
Two, pedestrians should always check before crossing anything, a police car might be crossing a red even at a marked crossing
Three, drivers, even thon they might be right in knowing that's not a proper crossing, should still be aware of idiots not looking
It might be private land but the roads should all be treated as a public road, go crash in to a car and drive off and see how long it takes for the police to coming knocking, the private land excuse won't hold water, many of the streets people on are privately owned, but the highway laws always apply

 

[Module 79L]

I've mentioned before how mothers with babies have lost the ability to cross the road safely. Must be something to do with the childbirth process.

Or CID (Cellphone-Induced Dumbness). It makes people think a crossing is a crossing is a crossing, even when they have a Red Man (Don't Walk sign).

 

[EliRDA]

Oh, believe me I'm not saying the pedestrain wasnt at fault, hence my comment about idiots on both sides. It also appeared to me that the driver slowed down as if to stop but then sped back up. Walker should have shortened dogs lease to keep the pup closer to them. As I was not sue of OPs country, I see its Scotland? I havent driven outside the usa in many years & then I was driving very little in germany back in the 90's so I wasnt sure of the traffic sign & what it entailed.

Now here in DE we have this.... In addition, pedestrians have the right-of-way when in crosswalks. Under 21 Delaware Code § 4142, drivers must yield the right-of-way to pedestrians crossing a street when in a crosswalk. Drivers must either slow down or stop to allow a pedestrian to cross the street. This law also makes it clear that drivers cannot overtake and pass other cars which are stopped at a crosswalk.
From delaware-pedestrian-traffic-right-of-way-laws Yeah, its a lawyers link but the shortest one I could find offhand.

When a driver sees a ped in a marked public crosswalk that is not controlled by some sort of signal, the driver has to stop. And yes, I've been near rearended by unattenctive drivers & also the idiots from outside the state that doesnt understand what a yellow sign in the middle of the road/crosswalk that says STOP for pedestrains with the lil black person shaped form walking in a striped road. Looks like this...
I still feel sorry for the pup, that owner is gonna get it killed one day.

 

[Rajagra]

Drivers shouldn't run down pedestrians.
Pedestrians shouldn't walk out in front of moving vehicles.
Should be that simple, but people are selfish/stupid/arrogant/impatient etc etc.

Do Belisha beacons hanging from the ceiling make a zebra crossing real? (Would make a nice 'Meanwhile in Australia' joke if the picture was a bit better.)

 

[Dee_82]

That's a fair point with upside down lollipops I have no idea, I think it probably does, the lights are to aid visibility which they do.

With regards to roads and private roads. ALL roads that the public have access too are classified as roads as per the RTA, it gets complicated with tax but everything else is straight forward.

 

[Module 79L]

Now here in DE we have this.... In addition, pedestrians have the right-of-way when in crosswalks. Under 21 Delaware Code § 4142, drivers must yield the right-of-way to pedestrians crossing a street when in a crosswalk. Drivers must either slow down or stop to allow a pedestrian to cross the street. This law also makes it clear that drivers cannot overtake and pass other cars which are stopped at a crosswalk.

When a driver sees a ped in a marked public crosswalk that is not controlled by some sort of signal, the driver has to stop.

You've just described what most European's road codes say.

 

[Rajagra]

There does seem to be a problem that some pedestrians just assume that a slow moving vehicle is about to stop. Or maybe they simply assume it is safe to step in front and force them to stop.
This is one of my bugbears about too-low speed limits (London is covered with 20mph limits now.) Where there are 5mph limits like in that car park it's even more predictable.

I had this happen yesterday. I genuinely didn't see her until the last second and had to slam on the brakes. People wearing black clothes at night should be more careful.

Deja vu.

I wasn't slowing for her (I hadn't seen her.) I was just taking it easy because I know this road has crawling traffic all the way along.
I need to start tailgating to discourage this behaviour. In all seriousness, the safer you drive, the more you have to put up with this crap. Makes me wonder why I bother.