Do you think I deserve a ticket for failure to yield to pedestrian in crosswalk? Video

[Ralph2]

If you have to ask.. Guilty as sin!

 

[Module 79L]

The UK isn't as bonkers as I thought...

Crazy place to put a crossing .

Here in Portugal every other intersection has pedestrian crossings just like in the video. I guess we're all bonkers.

 

[Module 79L]

The officer said that I cut in front of him when I re watched the video, do you think in that video that I cut in front of him? Yes I did turn when he just entered the cross walk on the other side of the street from me but I don't think I cut in front of him.

If the officer said that it's because the understanding of the law is that the definition of yielding also implies stopping if necessary.
Here in Portugal (and in many other countries) the crosswalk is understood by the law as being an undivided path, so if a pedestrian is in it, no matter in what part, no vehicle is allowed to cross before the pedestrian reaches the other side. I have to say that I find it completely absurd that in some countries drivers only have to yield/give way to pedestrians at crosswalks if they're on their side of the street/road.

 

[JohnnyMnemonic]

OP, glad to hear you're fighting this. Let's just say I'm familiar with the borough that was filmed in and it is out of control how they're ticketing lately. They're using the middle class as a way to generate revenue for free money programs.

Watching your video I honestly think you'll get either a pass in court or some type of reduction. The pedestrian was eating a slice of pizza and was totally unaffected by your turn showing how your turn wasn't even a concern to him. Imagine if everyone who drove through midtown Manhattan drove by the rules the officer expected you to follow? There would be no movement of traffic, period.

Please let us know how things turn out. I never went but is traffic court right there where DMV is? I'd say I'd hope the cop doesn't show up but the few times I had to go to DMV there were always a slew of cop cars illegally parked out front so they must show up just to have something to do.

 

[JohnnyMnemonic]

Any update @iDash ?

 

[Captain]

Just want your advice about a ticket I received.

It is a failure to yield to pedestrian in crosswalks. Do you think I should fight this based on saying that didn't actually impede the pedestrian (he/she didn't have to stop in their path and wait for you) and therefore yielded.

The real crime is listening to that music!

 

[krole]

Depends on how the law is written in your state. For WI, but not necessarily where you live.

346.23: Crossing controlled intersection or crosswalk.
(1) At an intersection or crosswalk where traffic is controlled by traffic control signals or by a traffic officer, the operator of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian, or to a person who is riding a bicycle or electric personal assistive mobility device in a manner which is consistent with the safe use of the crosswalk by pedestrians, who has started to cross the highway on a green or "Walk" signal and in all other cases pedestrians, bicyclists, and riders of electric personal assistive mobility devices shall yield the right-of-way to vehicles lawfully proceeding directly ahead on a green signal. No operator of a vehicle proceeding ahead on a green signal may begin a turn at a controlled intersection or crosswalk when a pedestrian, bicyclist, or rider of an electric personal assistive mobility device crossing in the crosswalk on a green or "Walk" signal would be endangered or interfered with in any way. The rules stated in this subsection are modified at intersections or crosswalks on divided highways or highways provided with safety zones in the manner and to the extent stated in sub. (2).
(2) At intersections or crosswalks on divided highways or highways provided with safety zones where traffic is controlled by traffic control signals or by a traffic officer, the operator of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian, bicyclist, or rider of an electric personal assistive mobility device who has started to cross the roadway either from the near curb or shoulder or from the center dividing strip or a safety zone with the green or "Walk" signal in the favor of the pedestrian, bicyclist, or rider of an electric personal assistive mobility device.

You could argue you didn't endanger or interfere as they didn't alter their progress.

Edit: I now see this is a month old. Oh well.

 

[kamkar]

You could argue you didn't endanger or interfere as they didn't alter their progress.

Thats what i think, on the other hand had the light been green and you came tear ass-ing and rounded the corner, then it might have been prudent with a fine.
With the current rules there as i see it, making a right turn in a place like that can be near impossible if there are lot of pedestrians.
So to me if you have to sit there waiting for that pedestrian to get all the way across, that take up like 1/3 or 1/4 of the time the light are green and you can actually do something.
So in that case a phone zoombie standing there and not setting off the second it get green light are holding up traffic ( jaywalking ) and so should also be illegible for a fine too, cuz he is hindering your progress just like you was fined for apparently hindering his progress.
All in all a setup i find silly
Sure they can argue well progress / smogress what is wrong is you endanger the pedestrian with your move.
But then if a phone zombie like mentioned above delay you from making your right turn you could argue well he endanger you as you sit there noot in a dedicated turn lane, and so you are in danger of getting rear ended as it is after all green light.

I do think the law is the law and so should be uphold in its entirety by the people hired to do that and the people that have voted for the people making the laws, but i also think here where i live and probably elsewhere too there are laws that need to be revised.
There are no need to have laws if they are not uphold by the police or the citizens, that's just stupid to me and mean something got to change ASAP.

 

[kamkar]

Well it seem we Danes have the same rule, but it are rarely policed, seem like the consensus if if you dont cause pedestrians to make emergency maneuvers like stopping or turning sharply, then you are fine.
My friend did say his sister did get pulled over by a cop, and apparently in a situation just like this one ( she made the turn well ahead of pedestrian ) so she dident get a fine the cop just told her to "watch it"

As i said the law is the law and weather you get a fine or not should not be down to the mood of the cop, so when we put our X on paper or on a hacked voting machine, then we should think about these things.

 

[iDash]

Any update @iDash ?

Take this to court. I'm in NYC too. You had plenty of time and room to turn.

SUCCESS

I just beat this ticket. About 95% of the people said it couldn't be beat and I would lose. I posted on another legal forum also and mostly everybody said I would lose.
I can say thanks to my dash cam is the only reason I beat this ticket. The cop was lying like crazy.

What I did is take about 5 pictures of different moments from the dash cam footage, I decided it would be better than showing the video in court. I also took a google maps picture of the area also. I printed these out on my color printer as a full page each.

The cop spoke first, he said some blatant lies about what happened. He said that the guy had to stop for me, I was an arms and a half length away, I was making a left hand turn, I cut the guy off. These were blatant lies if you watch the video as the guy was very far away from me. For him to say the guy had to stop and he was an arm and a half away form my car is flat out lying. The cop also said many things also that he was eating a pizza, he was in a trench coat, all things which would help me show my pictures are legit.

The cop also said he spoke to the guy I cut off and asked him if I cut him off, I don't believe he did this but I didn't look. I wish I had a rear dash cam, I'm going to get a rear dash cam just for these lying police.

I told the judge that the guy came diagonally onto the cross walk and to me it looked like he wanted to throw the pizza away. You can see in the video he walks diagonally onto the crosswalk and he is looking down the street. I did say he hesitated near the garbage can and didn't seem like he wanted to cross the street.

I also said that he was all the way at the other end of the street and not near me, pointing across the room to how far he was away.

The police officer was pissed! I thought the police don't care about losing in traffic court but he was very mad, LOL. The police even brought up the point that he was in the crosswalk and if he is anywhere in it I have to stop. I didn't want to argue but I told the judge that it is a gray area of the law and doesn't say that if someone puts their foot on the crosswalk you have to stop, it wasn't discussed further and I said this briefly. But the Cop even snickered like "come on" when I was going through the photos again at one point.

One thing is you do need a DVD copy of the video to give it to the court if you show a video, which I actually had. I put the video on my tablet and burned a DVD copy, but I decided not to show it because I thought the pictures were good enough and I could say easier it looked like he was hesitating near the garbage..

The judge did ask me if he made a 90 degree turn onto the crosswalk, which he didn't. I think key to me winning was the fact that he walked diagonally onto the cross walk as you can see on the video.

Look at the google map picture below and you can see the path he traveled onto the crosswalk, I believe this was important in my defense because he basically J-walked onto it.

I still don't get why people who saw the video thought I would lose, I always felt confident I would win and I did. To beat these tickets you have to go in prepared and I was prepared with the dash cam pictures.

 

[JohnnyMnemonic]

Congrats @iDash , great to hear! Thank you as well for the detailed explanation of how things went, what you said and did, etc etc.

If you decide to look into a value 2 channel dashcam, check out this thread on the soon to be released Viofo A129. Releasing soon and may be priced at around $200.

 

[iDash]

Congrats @iDash , great to hear! Thank you as well for the detailed explanation of how things went, what you said and did, etc etc.

The Court is right inside the DMV office, they are one location. It was quick, while there was a big list of people not many people were actually there.

If you bring dash cam evidence you have to put it on a copy to submit it to the court. So you can show it on your tablet, but make sure you have a copy of that DVD. They mention this in the beginning of the court also.

Key to winning is showing evidence somehow, if you are dead to rights then you will probably lose, but if the cop doesn't show twice you may win. I had a cop not show once, but they reschedule. I then beat a tint ticket the last time at this court because I showed them DMV law that had the court tint darkness change in the 90's and my car was an 89 at the time.

 

[iDash]

Wanted to point out more about the fact that the officer was lying. This was kind of scary to be honest that he would basically lie to make his case. I don't understand why he would do this. Don't you think lots of people have dash cams now and are recording everything?

He was also pretty pissed when I was going through the pictures. Maybe because he said things like the guy had to wait and he was very close to the car, and I cut him off. Maybe he knew that he probably exaggerated and I was showing it was false.
I got the ticket 2 months ago so it was a long time ago also.

Scary stuff, and this is why I'm going to install that rear dash cam because it would better show he was lying. I also don't think he stopped to talk to the guy, and the guy said that I cut him off. I believe the guy wouldn't say that because I was very far away from him and he wouldn't want to get some one in trouble. The rear dash cam would have shown if he did stop to talk to the guy.

The police definitely do lie so you better have dash cam protection.

 

[kamkar]

Sweet.
Triumph of the will and truth, this what must always win.

 

[abarth]

good on you! I didn't think you would win if it was just law-by-the-book, but I'm very glad you made a liar with authority look like a jack ass.

 

[Rajagra]

Nice one!

It may be possible the officer genuinely believed what he was saying though. The brain has a habit of filling in the gaps where information is missing, then that interpretation of events is committed to memory. Police should make efforts to avoid this but they are only human. They should not overstate how confident they are about their recollection though, or they can end up looking foolish, as we've seen here.

Video trumps witness statements every time. At least when it's allowed to be shown, which in my opinion should be always.

Sent from my V10 using Tapatalk

 

[Rodders]

technically, yes. around here (California), if there is a pedestrian anywhere in the crosswalk (even if they're at the opposite end), you cannot cross in front of them. it's likely that's the law in most states.