Looking for a low-res high storage camera

[mrtony]

I own a fleet of vehicles used for wheelchair transportation. We've had a couple of minor incidents recently where a passenger has claimed something has happened while on our vans. The claims are questionable and I trust our drivers, but you never know.

We're considering installing a dash cam facing the interior of the vehicle, but we need to have lots of storage for this. I've seen several cams that can accommodate a 512 GB SD card, but they seem to record in high resolution only. I'd like to have 150-200 hours recorded before it starts looping.

There are a couple larger companies around that offer solutions, SmartWitness is around $359/vehicle for one camera, and then $25/month. With 10 vehicles, that's an up front cost of $3,600 and $250/month for just interior coverage. This one holds all video for 30 days which is good. The other option (Verizon) is $52.50/month, 2 cameras are included free, but it doesn't store anything but incidents.

Basically, is there a camera which is low res enough to allow this much storage to fit on a 256 or 512 GB card? We don't need to read license plates etc, we just need a general sense of what's happening in the van. I was thinking 480p with a low bitrate, but I'm not sure if anything exists. All the searches I do only seem to show the highest resolution available. For an event camera, that makes plenty of sense, but not for our application.

Google searches seem to indicate that 1 minute of 480p video at 500 Kbps takes up 2MB. This would mean an hour is 120 MB, and any decently sized SD card could easily accommodate what we need. Google also says that for an hour of 720p, you're looking at 800-900 MB, so again 256 GB would be plenty.

Cost is, of course, a concern, but I'd rather have a larger outlay up front and no subscription fees. This also lets us avoid any privacy concerns, because we would have all the data stored in the camera only.

Thanks in advance for any ideas and help you can come up with.

 

[kamkar]

Welcome to the forum mrtony.

There are some industrial systems, though often just SD analog cameras, but that also go a long way, these you can often put a large HDD / SSD inside.
These days i would assume 1080p are not a problem finding.
You can also some times record in less than 30 FPS, that would be fine for anything on the inside at least, for outside dashcam use 30 FPS are a must i think.

If you search using Mobile DVR you should see a lot pop up, i found this system doing that.

8 Channel Mobile DVR | Vantage Security

www.vantagesecurity.com

It support up to a 2 TB harddrive, which i assume could be a SSD drive as regular harddrives, well not good with bumps ASO.
But a 2 TB SSD, well it do not cost a fortune these days.

The consumer dashcams we mainly focus on in here, well 512 GB memory card are still a tall order in most cases

 

[mrtony]

Thanks for the suggestion kamkar. I've searched this one, and it seems to only be readily available in India. I've found a couple similar products, the Black Box 1080P camera systems for fleets. These run around $700 all included, so we'd be looking in the $7-8,000 range with shipping. I should be able to install. It's interesting that these claim record 300-400 hours with 512 GB storage and up to 4 cameras (I guess in a split screen), but a typical dashcam would struggle to record 70 hrs with that space.

I was looking at the Vantrue E1 which seems to be a solid unit, and it can accept a 512 GB card. But the resolution is too high, or possibly the bitrate, I'm honestly not sure how video storage works...

It looks like the Vantrue E1 has a low bitrate parking mode that continuously records. I wonder if there's a way to have that mode on all the time? I assume this would probably create smaller files, providing the storage we need. Or is there a way to change the resolution lower? I know this isn't the popular preference on this forum

In the meantime, I'll keep searching Mobile DVRs.

 

[kamkar]

Well today 1440p are becoming the new standard, 1080p cameras are pretty much as second or tertiary cameras to one of those
I use low bitrate myself for parking guard, though just for 3 hours on a timer as i have CCTV at home ( from 2 floor balcony door to parked car in back yard.
Parking guard are just 4-5-6 mbit and so generate significant smaller files, so a 1080 p camera recording at 20 mbit it would generate about 350 MB large 3 minute video segments, but in parking guard the low bitrate are only 130 MB for 3 minutes.

At first i was nervous if that low bitrate would mean problem capturing a plate of a passing car, but as it turned out as long as you have some sun or light at least, it is just fine.
When the light level get low ( not even dark ) and all chances of a plate capture are out of the window, no matter the camera or bitrate.

I suppose you could force a 3 hard wire dashcam into parking guard, if you turned off the +12 V ACC wire after the camera have booted / car / van started, then it would think HAY ACC is gone so i must change to parking guard, but most systems only have parking guard for 24 / 40 hours, but i dont think you have work days that long so should be fine.
But if you have several start / stops during the day, well it would be a little tricky to keep track off, though many cameras beep or even say with a voice when they change to / from parking guard, and of course also turning on.

Generally we want dashcams to need absolute no user involvement after it have been set up, as lets face it, if we had to remember to press a record button like on a video recorder, well chance are we will probably forget it, especially that day when we really need it.

Most dashcams will allow for a lower than the native resolution, but most often nok like you have a lot if choices to choose from, but lets say a 1440p / 30 FPS camera, that might well be able to record in 1080P/60 FPS and 1080p / 30 FPS too as a option.
720p and even lower will probably not be there, and in general we dashcam addicts would not recommend less than the 1080p we have been using for many years.
Of course doing that, mean that you will also crop in a little on the footage off the sensor as in the case of a 1440p sensor ( 5 megapixel ) for 1080p you would just use the middle 2.1 megapixel of that sensor, so you would have a less wide Field Of View.
Of course not like the camera turn into a zoom camera but lets say the 1440p mode are 160 degree Field of view, your 1080 p image will probably only be 130 degree FOV.

I dont think there is a mode to jump strait to low bitrate, though some of our modding friends here, they could probably modify a firmware so the systems regular mode would only be 4 mbit, and in that case you could run the system just like normal.
In that case it is just if one of the modder guys are up for the challenge ( should be easy for them ) and then find a model they can work with, and of course going there, well you should choose a mature system, as you can ignore any future firmware updates as that would mean bringing the modder in play again.
Generally modders up bitrate if anything, but lowering it should be just as easy for them.

 

[mrtony]

Wow, even with the lower bitrate, that video is much better than we need. Agreed, that having no involvement (start and drive) is the best method, so enabling parking mode manually isn't a great plan.

Yes, 4 mbps running with a normal system would be ideal. It seems like this would give us plenty of storage (220-280 hrs on a 512 GB card).

Any suggestions for who could mod the firmware or on a good camera for this? It would be good to have a date/time stamp (ideally updated automatically for daylight savings etc) and audio recording. That's all we really need, but I'm not against GPS/speed etc.

We'll probably just get a simple loop recording version for a front camera with with a smaller card, since we'll know immediately if there is a vehicle incident and can pull the files right away. This one would need GPS.

I've been looking at the Vantrue E1, which I like the size of. Plus I can get this one for $79.99 currently plus a card.

However, the Rove R2-4K seems to have been around longer and is currently $120. I'm thinking the Rove would have more ability to make adjustments to the firmware.

We'd be happy to pay for someone to modify the firmware. Is there a subforum for this? I'll search around too and try to post there.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Necromancer]

Check out Mobious maxi 4k, its $100 camera, can house 512GB micro SD, it has settings from 4K to 848x480 and additional bitrate settings (high, medium, low) for each resolution.
Unfortunately the bitrate itself is not documented, and i guess nobody here ran it at low bitrates to check it yet.
it has also framerate settings 60-30 and from 30 to 5 every 5 frames, so 30,25,20,15....
The high data rate for MM4K is at 4K resoltion and 30FPS, is 70MB/s, the medium i think is 50MB/s.

theres also a Mobius 1 which is similar, based on a lot older model. the original model (of mobious 1) been around for 10 years so it has a lot of historical data / experiance and reliability verification. It only goes up to 1080p @30FPS , and costs less.
The high data rate for the highest resolution, 1080p @ 30 FPS is 20MB/s.
Although i think they said the "newer version" goes up to 1440p, which the original didn't, so it could be the data rate changed.

at 20MB/s, it records ~8.5GB/h
512GB has 473GB effective listed under windows.
so it gives you 55 hours. it means that to hit 200 hours the data rate needs to be ~5MB/s, which is pretty damn low for a dashcam.
you may be able to hit it lowering the variety of settings: the resolution, data rate, and FPS, however you need to check whatever it records is understandable enough to suit your needs.

Its also very small form-factor camera, and has verity of lenses (normal, wide angle, zoom-in).

I don't have experience with other cameras.

 

[mrtony]

I will check this one out for sure. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Dashmellow]

As @kamkar and @Necromancer have pointed out, most dash cams can be set to record at lower resolutions and lower bit rates than their highest spec.
My recommendation would be the Viofo A119 V3. Why? Because it is a great camera and probably the most reliable dash cam I've ever owned. This is very important as dash cams in general as a product category tend not to be quite so reliable.

It has repeatedly been # 1 on the yearly DCT "Best Dash Cam of" list where it is described as an "All around great camera" .... "The VIOFO A119 V3 is currently the best all around bang for your buck dash cam for video quality." It has a Sony Starvis sensor which performs extremely well in low light. It can accomodate a 256 GB which I think should be adequate, especially

Other factors are that you can select a range of resolutions and bit rates and it has a hidden option to use H.265 video compression which in your case might be a valuable consideration because it allows for more information to be recorded onto the memory card than the current standard of H.264 video compression. It can accomodate a 256 GB which I think should be adequate, especially if you are using the lowest bit rate and resolution the camera provides.

The camera is a bargain and is currently available on Amazon for $100. Periodically it goes on sale at around $85.00.

One option might be to try one and see how well it meets your needs. Of course, that goes for any camera for that matter.

From the user's manual.

 

[Leonauto]

I own a fleet of vehicles used for wheelchair transportation. We've had a couple of minor incidents recently where a passenger has claimed something has happened while on our vans. The claims are questionable and I trust our drivers, but you never know.

Basically, is there a camera which is low res enough to allow this much storage to fit on a 256 or 512 GB card? We don't need to read license plates etc, we just need a general sense of what's happening in the van. I was thinking 480p with a low bitrate, but I'm not sure if anything exists. All the searches I do only seem to show the highest resolution available. For an event camera, that makes plenty of sense, but not for our application.
Thanks in advance for any ideas and help you can come up with.

Hi, @mrtony, I think @kamkar suggestion would be the best choice for your need, it's a 4 channel dash cam.

If you search using Mobile DVR you should see a lot pop up, i found this system doing that.

8 Channel Mobile DVR | Vantage Security

www.vantagesecurity.com

They are offered by many different manufacturers, including Amazon. This DVR has a lot of advantages: you can set different resolutions and different bitrates (1080Р (1920х1080) / 1080N (960х1080) / 960Н (1280х960) / 720P (1280х720) / D1 (704х576) / HD1 (704х288) / CIF (352х288)) to suit your needs.
Here is what the seller writes in the replies: "If you set the recording resolution to 720P, you can record 64 hours with 4 cameras. If you set the recording resolution to D1, you can record 200 hours with 4 cameras." But you will need one camera (you can negotiate with the seller and order one camera for each DVR, this will not affect the recording modes in any way), which means that the recording time is significantly. In addition, a separate mini-camera is easier to install in a van.
There are also other positive "goodies"

Spoiler: 4-CH AHD Mobile Vehicle Car DVR Video Recorder

https://www.amazon.com/gp/B07Y63HVBN
PLUG AND PLAY.
PLAY BACK
It supports to search and playback videos on MDVR, also you can backup or take out the card and playback the videos on PC, We provide a special player to playback the H.265 videos.
【LOOP RECORD】: 4 Channel 1080P (1080N/720P /960H/D1/CIF for selection) HD real time recording. Records camera feeds continuously, looping over oldest recordings when storage is full.
Records on to 2 memory cards - each with a 256GB capacity.(memory CARD NOT INCLUDED ).
Support upgrade software via USB slot, and support to connect a mouse to work with mdvr.
【Backup Video】Supports to backup AVI/MP4 video file to external USB device.
【DELAY RECORDING】: Records footage while vehicle is off – up to 6 hours (draws power from vehicle’s battery).
【Output】Only has VGA output currently.

PS: These 4-camera DVRs are often used by driving schools during their driving test.

 

[mrtony]

Wanted to update the post:

I purchased a VanTrue E1Lite, and Thoracelli was generous enough to help me with the firmware. We were able to lower the bitrate to 2mbps in 720p (more than enough quality for our purposes). This allows more than 200 hours on a 512 GB SD card. Appreciate the help and suggestions everyone.