My In-Depth Video Guides to Choosing a Dash Cam & Picking the Right SD Card

[VIIVIIIXIII]

I think some of it comes down to what the engineers use for development and testing, for Novatek that's Transcend and one of the primary reasons we changed to using Transcend cards

Hey @jokiin, would you happen to have any sources for this type of info, regarding chipsets and memory card compatibility? Or is that like manufacturer classified info?

 

[jokiin]

Hey @jokiin, would you happen to have any sources for this type of info, regarding chipsets and memory card compatibility? Or is that like manufacturer classified info?

it's not really something that's classified, it's just about knowing what works well together and what doesn't, just the sort of thing you pickup along the way I guess

 

[Lola]

I have never used Transcend cards only SanDisk in working with regular cameras, no problems ever. Does Transcend honor their warranty's without any problems? In the US they can be bought at Amazon 32GB $17.00, 6,000 hours, 64GB $37.00 12,000 hours Transcend High Endurance cards.
Having number of hours associated with cards is rather ridiculous (just my opinion).

 

[jokiin]

Can't say I've seen any reports about issues with Transcend honouring warranties

 

[AJD123]

Great videos and love the Toronto footage. Well done!

 

[Limeybastard]

Great work on these guides, Andrew. You make some great points regarding the different types of NAND and the different controllers. However, I disagree with avoiding SanDisk cards. I have been using SanDisk Ultra (30mb/s) and Extreme cards (80mb/s+) for the last couple years without issues.

My iTronics and Mobius are 3 years old now, still running the same SanDisk cards without issues in my daily driver. I format them maybe once a year, or less. I have been using a SanDisk Extreme card in my SG9665Gc V2 for the last year as well.

I exclusively use SanDisk and Samsung cards in the dashcams that I test, and I have yet to encounter any problems at all. Note that I only buy my SD cards from reputable stores (ie. Amazon direct, BestBuy, Costco, etc.). SanDisk is probably the most counterfeited SD card brand, so perhaps some of the failures may be attributed to this.

I have done a lot of research in the SSD and flash memory market. SanDisk, along with Toshiba, Samsung and Micron/Intel are among the best in the industry.

My experience with SanDisk Ultra has been absolutely different. A card failed after 5 months, making me lose some very important trip footage, I RMA'd the card and the replacement died 2 months later, so I RMA'd again, and the card that they sent me would give memory errors every now and then within the first few weeks of getting it, so I retired it.

For the same price, I'd rather have something I know won't fail on me so often.

First card I used in the A119 was Sandisk Ultra 64GB bought instore from Walmart. It failed to write the last 2 or so 3 minute video files before turning vehicle off on my first journey using the cam. Changed to Kingston and problem went away. I think your rule of thumb and it sounds like a good idea that I may employ, is to stick to 32GB cards ?

 

[old4570]

Really liked the video on memory cards ...
The vid on dashcams was .... ? not bad but also not great ... ( There really is a boat load more )

 

[budster]

Was looking into what sd cards work best for dashcams and found this thread. I already know from various threads (and personal experience) that Sandisk Ultra cards are to be avoided as they can become read-only easily. I've seen that Lexar 633x cards are recommended. However, reading amazon.com reviews on the Lexar 633x cards, I came across quite a few reviews where people mentioned their Lexar cards got locked to become read only (https://www.amazon.com/product-revi...word=read+only&search-alias=community-reviews). These reviews don't specifically mention dashcam use, and most of the reports seem to be for use in phones. I was considering buying some Lexar 633x cards, but this is concerning that the read-only issue is not limited to Sandisk cards. Can anyone comment on this?

For this read only issue that can happen to SD cards, does the card having MLC or TLC memory have any impact? Is the read only issue less likely to happen to MLC cards?

Also, people are saying that the Lexar 633x cards are MLC. But I cannot find any specification for this. I would think that if they are really MLC, shouldn't Lexar be advertising this fact on their packaging or specifications like what Transcend does for their line of MLC cards? The Lexar cards seem to be priced inexpensively if it was really a MLC card. I am also wondering if perhaps the Lexar cards at one point in the past may have been MLC and they might have switched factories later to make them as TLC. So maybe that's why they don't specify this to give them flexibility to lower their manufacturing costs at anytime as average consumer doesn't care whether the card is MLC or TLC (average consumer is mostly just concerned with GB size, speed rating, and cost).

I bought one of the white Sandisk high endurance cards to try out. Does anyone know for sure whether this is a MLC card? Nothing on the packaging or in the specifications on Sandisk's web site mentions anything about this.

From various threads including this one, I know that Transcend cards are recommended for dashcams. But reading amazon reviews again (https://www.amazon.com/product-revi...word=read+only&search-alias=community-reviews), there are reports that the Transcend cards can become read only as well.

I have various A118C, A119, and SG9665GC dashcams among myself and family members and am just trying to figure out the best value SD cards to use for these. I'm currently using Transcend 300x and PNY Turbo Performance (https://www.amazon.com/gp/B00W77CIZ4) cards, but thinking to replace them if these are not ideal to use in dashcams. I know I could pay premium prices to get "high endurance" cards from Sandisk/Transcend/Lexar, but looking for something cheaper that would work almost as well. Thus, started looking at Lexar 633x cards since they are fairly inexpensive now ($10 for a 32GB card sold directly from amazon, https://www.amazon.com/gp/B012PLSCQ0).

 

[niko]

From what I know Lexar 32GB 633x and 64GB 633x are MLC. Lexar 128GB 633x is SLC (TLC?). All of them are good to use with SG9665GC， A118C and A119. Also you may consider Transcend 300x or 400x series as well.

 

[budster]

I contacted Lexar support to ask which of their cards use MLC and here is the response I got:

"At this time, we have several locations that make the different cards, some using the different MLC and TLC designs. But, unfortunately, there isn't a way to tell by looking at the card which version it is but it should be noted that regardless if the MicroSD card is designed as, it will operate the same as the other models of that same card."

This kind of confirms my suspicion that Lexar 633x cards at one point in the past may have been using MLC, but with cost cutting, they have now switched to using TLC. Their 32GB 633x cards can be purchased now for around $10 USD (e.g. https://www.amazon.com/gp/B012PLSCQ0) and a 64GB 633 card for about $20 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/B012PLSFH6) and it's hard to believe at these price points the cards have MLC.

Even Lexar's (and Sandisk's) "high endurance" cards are not marketed as using MLC, which seems odd. One would think they must be using MLC to achieve the marketed recording hours, but if so, why are they not advertised as having MLC? Could their high endurance cards really only be using TLC? Only Transcend seems to specifically advertise whether a card is using MLC. Does Transcend have better marketers and/or it's just that Lexar/Sandisk think people don't care whether a card has MLC or not?

 

[AndrewL]

I contacted Lexar support to ask which of their cards use MLC and here is the response I got:

"At this time, we have several locations that make the different cards, some using the different MLC and TLC designs. But, unfortunately, there isn't a way to tell by looking at the card which version it is but it should be noted that regardless if the MicroSD card is designed as, it will operate the same as the other models of that same card."

I think your rep may be a little less informed or gave you general information because they do have a lot of cards and didn't want to reply with a list. Here's my sources:

First reference is talking with a retailer who has direct access to a Lexar sales rep. Confirmed MLC from them for both the 300x and 633x line. Although the 200gb from what I heard is not possible to made from TLC which may cause the confusion.

Emailing their customer service:
Lexar:
Thank you for contacting Lexar Support. Unfortunately, we have many different manufacturing plants and they could use either MLC, or SLC NAND. Most of the time they are MLC, however some manufacturing plants still use the SLC parts. I can only guarantee the speed rating. Your 128GB 633x carry up to 95MB/s read, and 20MB/s write speed.

Me:
Just to clarify do you mean MLC and TLC construction for the 633x? Getting SLC would be awesome as a consumer but it might be expensive for Lexar.

Lexar:
That’s correct. There are some of the 633x cards that are MLC and SLC design. Our 633x cards have been known to be a great card for dash cams and small cameras. I hope the information has helped.

I've also looked at a lot of English and Chinese forums and reviews to corroborate the above and there's a consensus except for the 200gb models.


But, you made a good point. It is rather cheap against competitors with similar products. I'm interested as well in delving into this topic.

 

[budster]

I think the customer service person you were emailing got confused on SLC vs TLC like you were trying to clarify with them. I highly doubt consumer microsd cards from any brand use SLC.

I'm not sure how much information from a sales rep can be considered reliable or complete. From my experience, a lot of sales reps can't provide complete or accurate information. Not sure if that Lexar sales rep was saying that all their 300x and 633x cards are made with MLC? But this is contradicted by the email replies we have received (assuming your response from customer service was really referring to TLC instead of SLC). Also, when I sent my question to Lexar support, I specifically was asking about their 633x line of cards and provided as examples the part #'s for the 32GB and 64GB cards from this line.

I guess we have some data points on this, but there's still incomplete information on Lexar cards. Probably Transcend is the only one where there's 100% certainty which of their cards are MLC since it's in their specifications and marketing.

 

[Deacon]

EDIT: Conclusion first, then details.

Conclusion (tl;dr)

The only viable MLC NAND options are the Transcend High Endurance line and the Kingston Industrial line. Transcend gives a 2 year warranty while Kingston gives a 5 year warranty, both with capacities up to 64GB (https://www.amazon.com/gp/B01BDKTRAE for Transcend and https://www.amazon.com/gp/B01DOFCPNW for Kingston). Note that Transcend and Panasonic are the only ones who claim Error Correcting Code (ECC)! If 64GB is enough for you (or all you can use), and reliability is paramount over saving a few bucks, then definitely go for either the Transcend High Endurance or the Kingston Industrial.

Otherwise, PNY and Lexar both make 128GB+ microSD cards that aren't MLC but also don't void your lifetime warranty if used in dash cams. So if you want larger sizes, the Lexar High Performance 633x series (https://www.amazon.com/gp/B012PQKFNI) or PNY Elite series (https://www.amazon.com/gp/B01G26R7LA) make the most sense, available in larger sizes and fairly affordable. Sure, neither are MLC, so they'll probably wear out faster, but at least when your card dies you'll probably get a replacement.

With due respect to @AndrewL the Lexar 633x does not use MLC NAND despite rumors floating around the interwebs.


Details

Digging through a bunch of them, it appears many manufacturers are backing off MLC claims. Essentially if they brag about it as they should, then it's MLC. If they don't, it's TLC. If they claim they're mixed and can't guarantee it, then what they're guaranteeing is that none of it is MLC. No manufacturer is going to produce the much more expensive MLC and then toss it in the bargain bin with the TLC cards. It would be like a seafood provider choosing to mix in real high-dollar Deadliest Catch crab in with the imitation crab on purpose.

Note that Transcend voids its lifetime warranty for cards used in in-car video recording devices. So if warranty means anything to you, skip the Ultimate line and go for the High Endurance line. Panasonic only provides a 1-year warranty and is tied for Sony as the most wildly overpriced anyway. PNY doesn't offer MLC, but they do claim a lifetime warranty without explicitly excluding dash cams. Lexar doesn't offer MLC, and their High Endurance line is only warranted for 2 years. Same for Sandisk's High Endurance for Video Monitoring line, 2 years.

Clearly these manufacturers know how hard 1080p+ dash cams really are on cards, especially with the temperature extremes they see.

Transcend definitely claims MLC with ECC for their high endurance line, basically the gold standard for dash cams, with a 2 year warranty and capacity up to 64GB: https://www.transcend-info.com/Products/No-727
They also claim MLC for their Ultimate line which also tops out at 64GB, such as in this PDF where they say nothing about it for the Premium line, meaning TLC, but their lifetime warranty is void in dash cams regardless, and you don't need the extra speed, so stick to the High Endurance: https://www.transcend-info.com/products/images/modelpic/423/EN_microSD_ProductSheet.pdf

Warranty: https://www.transcend-info.com/Warranty

Kingston claims MLC for their Industrial line, but they don't claim any kind of ECC. Capacity only goes up to 64GB. They offer a 5 year warranty, and thankfully that warranty is not voided by use in a dash cam: http://www.kingston.com/us/flash/microsd_cards/sdcit

Warranty: http://www.kingston.com/us/company/warranty

Sony claims MLC for their SR-UZA series, even showing a 128GB model. But they don't claim ECC, nothing is available on their product or support web sites on the warranty, and the 128GB model doesn't appear for sale anywhere, making 64GB the largest actually available. Amazon indicates a 5 year warranty with no indication of limitations, and these cards are still twice as expensive compared to all but Panasonic for no clear reason other than brand name. Skip these and run Transcend High Endurance or Kingston Industrial for MLC offerings: http://www.sony.com/electronics/micro-sd-memory-cards/sr-uza-series

Panasonic offers quite a few "Consumer Plus" SD and microSD MLC choices as an offshoot of their industrial lines, in this case the TE series is the most appropriate. These are the real deal, and they include ECC. But they're only available in up to 64GB, only have a 1 year warranty, are tied with Sony for twice as expensive for no discernible reason, and they are not generally available on Amazon but instead only through Panasonic's own authorized resellers. Skip these and run Transcend High Endurance or Kingston Industrial for MLC offerings: https://na.industrial.panasonic.com...mer-plus-sd-cards/series/te-series-mlc/CS4103

PNY doesn't claim MLC for any of their memory cards, but they do claim a lifetime warranty for their High Performance and Pro Elite cards that have been "installed, maintained and operated under conditions of normal use and in accordance with the installation guide provided herewith." But they don't provide an installation guide and don't say what normal use is, and it's only applicable while that particular product being manufactured, so no "equivalent" replacements are promised. YMMV. http://www.pny.com/mega-consumer/shop-all-products/flash-memory-cards

Warranty: http://www.pny.com/File Library/Support/PNY Products/Warranties/Flash Memory Cards/Micro-SD-Warranty-Class10.pdf

Lexar doesn't claim MLC for any of their cards, even their high endurance line. And they have a short warranty on those: http://www.lexar.com/products/memor...ndurance-microSDHC-microSDXC-UHS-I-cards.html

That said, Lexar's High Performance 633x line, while not MLC, is available in higher capacities with a lifetime warranty that is not explicitly voided by use in dash cams which is nice: http://www.lexar.com/products/memor...nce-633x-microSDHC-microSDXC-UHS-I-cards.html

Warranty: http://www.lexar.com/content/dam/DAM_Lexar/lexar-family/warranties/lexar-global-warranty.pdf

Sandisk doesn't claim it for any memory card products, including high endurance lines, only some of their SSD's. They do have a special line for dashcams and surveillance systems, but they still void the warranty for dash cams: https://www.sandisk.com/home/memory-cards/microsd-cards/high-endurance-microsd

DO NOT USE SANDISK ULTRA CARDS. It should go without saying at this point, but they're cheaper for a reason and have developed a very bad reputation in heavy use applications like dash cams.

Warranty: https://www.sandisk.com/about/legal/warranty/warranty-united-states

Samsung's marketing team originally claimed it when they released their current lines, then then said whoops sorry about that it's only for Pro and Pro+, and now they don't even claim it for those. And the warranty drops if you use it in any kind of surveillance device, saying in their full specs, "Warranty is limited for any type of surveillance system." So...not good: http://www.samsung.com/us/computing...ry_cards-microsd/_/n-10+11+hv22y+zq29p+trokt/

 

[Module 79L]

Note that Transcend voids its lifetime warranty for cards used in in-car video recording devices.

Transcend does claim MLC for their Ultimate line, (...) but remember their lifetime warranty is void in dash cams regardless (...)

I'd like to know what @jokiin has to say about this, since Street Guardian supplies Transcend cards with their dashcams.

 

[Lola]

Digging through a bunch of them, it appears many manufacturers are backing off MLC claims. Essentially if they brag about it as they should, then it's MLC. If they don't, it's TLC. If they claim they're mixed and can't guarantee it, then what they're guaranteeing is that none of it is MLC. No manufacturer is going to produce the much more expensive MLC and then toss it in the bargain bin with the TLC cards. It would be like a seafood provider choosing to mix in real high-dollar Deadliest Catch crab in with the imitation crab on purpose.

Note that Transcend voids its lifetime warranty for cards used in in-car video recording devices. So if warranty means anything to you, skip the Ultimate line and go for the High Endurance line. Panasonic only provides a 1-year warranty anyway. Lexar doesn't offer MLC, and their High Endurance line is only warranted for 2 years. Same for Sandisk's High Endurance for Video Monitoring line, 2 years.

Clearly these manufacturers know how hard 1080p+ dash cams really are on cards, especially with the temperature extremes they see.

Transcend does claim MLC for their Ultimate line, such as in this PDF where they say nothing about it for the Premium line, meaning TLC, but remember their lifetime warranty is void in dash cams regardless: https://www.transcend-info.com/products/images/modelpic/423/EN_microSD_ProductSheet.pdf

They also claim it of course for their high endurance line: https://www.transcend-info.com/Products/No-727

Panasonic offers a few "Consumer Plus" MLC choices as an offshoot of their industrial lines, including even a 16GB "SLC-lite" offering if you want to pay $600 for one. But these appear to be the real deal. This is about the only reasonable option you're going to find actually available and even then only from a handful of legit places for $80 to $100 for 64GB. But keep in mind it's a U3 card, so quite a bit higher speed than required for most dash cams unless maybe it's 4K: https://na.industrial.panasonic.com...series/te-series-mlc/CS4103/model/RPSMTE64DA1

Samsung originally claimed it when they released their current line, then then said whoops sorry about that it's only for Pro and Pro+, and now they don't even claim it for those. And the warranty drops if you use it in any kind of surveillance device. So...not good.

Lexar doesn't claim it for any of their cards, even their high endurance line. And they have a short warranty on those: http://www.lexar.com/products/memor...ndurance-microSDHC-microSDXC-UHS-I-cards.html

Sandisk doesn't claim it for any memory card products, including high endurance lines, only some of their SSD's. They do have a special line for dashcams and surveillance systems: https://www.sandisk.com/home/memory-cards/microsd-cards/high-endurance-microsd

There is absolutely no way that these manufactures aren't fully aware of any shortcomings their cards have on various devices!
Sounds to me like they like to talk out of both sides of their mouth! If the cards I have need to be sent back because of a problem and they refuse not to honor the warrantee that was in effect when I ought the card, I would talk to my lawyer and never leave another posting about cards, without leaving my story about their business practices. To much of this kind of business practices is going on in the US already.

I would love to know the Actual cost of making a card as delivered to the manufacture!

 

[DT MI]

...Note that Transcend voids its lifetime warranty for cards used in in-car video recording devices...... Panasonic only provides a 1-year warranty anyway....Same for Sandisk's High Endurance for Video Monitoring line, 2 years.

Clearly these manufacturers know how hard 1080p+ dash cams really are on cards, especially with the temperature extremes they see.

.....
Lexar doesn't claim it for any of their cards, even their high endurance line. And they have a short warranty on those:...

... If the cards I have need to be sent back because of a problem and they refuse not to honor the warrantee that was in effect when I ought the card, I would talk to my lawyer and never leave another posting about cards, without leaving my story about their business practices....

I've mentioned in other threads that PNY does not exclude dash cam or surveillance cam use from their lifetime warranty on class 10 microSD cards. They do have the normal exclusions for abuse, etc. which is common for all manufacturers. Anecdotally I've been using PNY cards (32, 64 and 128GB) exclusively for about 18 months now with no issues.

http://www.pny.com/File Library/Sup...sh Memory Cards/Micro-SD-Warranty-Class10.pdf

http://www.pny.com/File Library/Sup...s/Flash-Memory-Card-Product-Line-Brochure.pdf

 

[Deacon]

Thanks for that, I updated the post to include PNY.

I think it's clear that for as much reliability as you can reasonably have, Trancend High Endurance cards take the trophy. As for the rest, your mileage may vary. Transcend's Ultimate 633x line, being also MLC, should take second place, but they void the warranty if you use it in a dash cam or other similar implementations, and they're currently only available in up to 64GB, no larger than the High Endurance line. And who needs the extra speed?

PNY and Lexar both make 128GB+ microSD cards that aren't MLC but also don't void your lifetime warranty if used in dash cams, so if you're looking for larger sizes and higher speeds, the Lexar High Performance 633x series (https://www.amazon.com/gp/B012PQKFNI) or PNY Elite series (https://www.amazon.com/gp/B01G26R7LA) make the most sense, available in larger sizes and fairly affordable.

For reference, here's Lexar's warranty: http://www.lexar.com/content/dam/DAM_Lexar/lexar-family/warranties/lexar-global-warranty.pdf

 

[budster]

Regarding Transcend 400x cards, does anyone know what's the difference between the following 32GB models listed on amazon?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/B00APCMMDG (TS32GUSDU1)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/B015J44R0U (TS32GUSDU1PE)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/B015J44R14 (TS32GUSDU1P)

On Transcend's own site (https://www.transcend-info.com/Products/No-423), only the TS32GUSDU1 model is listed. I assume TS32GUSDU1PE refers to Amazon's frustration free packaging that doesn't use a plastic clamshell. But I'm not sure what's the difference between TS32GUSDU1 and TS32GUSDU1P. On the amazon pages, only the TS32GUSDU1 mentions the "Built-in Error Correcting Code (ECC) to detect and correct transfer errors" feature. But should the other models have this feature as well? From other threads, it seems the Transcend 400x is best value TLC memory card to get for dashcams so I want to get one of these as a backup card. Are these models really all the same, but just differ in how they're packaged?

 

[budster]

Note that Transcend voids its lifetime warranty for cards used in in-car video recording devices. So if warranty means anything to you, skip the Ultimate line and go for the High Endurance line.

I was surprised to read about this, but looking at Transcend's warranty policy at https://www.transcend-info.com/Warranty, this is correct. Under the Limited Lifetime Warranty section:

*The Limited Lifetime Warranty will not apply to any Transcend memory cards being used in write-intensive applications, including but not limited to (as determined by Transcend): (i) recursive / in-car recording devices, (ii) video monitoring and surveillance devices, (iii) continuous data logging devices like servers, or (iv) other excessive uses that exceed normal use.

Their Ultimate 633x/600x cards which are stated to use MLC and their Premium 400x cards have the limited lifetime warranty. Their high endurance cards have the 2 year limited warranty, for which dashcam use is not excluded.

 

[DT MI]

...
PNY doesn't make 128GB+ micro SD cards anymore, ...

I don't think that's correct. I just checked their website and they currently show at least 3.
http://www.pny.com/Elite_microSDXC_Card_CL_10_85MBs_with_Adapter?sku=P-SDU200U185EL-GE
http://www.pny.com/pro-elite-microsdxc?sku=P-SDUX128U395PRO-GE
http://www.pny.com/Elite_microSDXC_Card_CL_10_85MBs_with_Adapter?sku=P-SDU128U185EL-GE