No satisfying quality A139 pro (where are licences plates?!)

[piccolo88]

Hi,
I installed my A139 pro today (front dashcam only for now).
I drove 10min early evening and gotta admit I am kinda disappointed about the quality. Buildings etc look nice - but you can barely see (German) licences plates.
I was standing and there were cars passing me with 30km/h (20mp/h) and no chance in reading the plates. thats bonkers

Settings are 4k / 30fps

 

[Dimson75]

Hi,
I installed my A139 pro today (front dashcam only for now).
I drove 10min early evening and gotta admit I am kinda disappointed about the quality. Buildings etc look nice - but you can barely see (German) licences plates.
I was standing and there were cars passing me with 30km/h (20mp/h) and no chance in reading the plates. thats bonkers

Settings are 4k / 30fps

In the next branch they write that they wiped the headlights and the oncoming numbers became visible. I also have trouble shooting video in the dark. Temporarily not using HDR
The firmware is still under development. Viofo wrote that after the Chinese New Year they will post it for download. But they posted version V1.0_1217 with a note that HDR was fixed. In fact, nothing has changed. Also bad at night.
Falsificator knows how to edit HDR. But VIOFO did not send him this device.

 

[piccolo88]

In the next branch they write that they wiped the headlights and the oncoming numbers became visible. I also have trouble shooting video in the dark. Temporarily not using HDR
The firmware is still under development. Viofo wrote that after the Chinese New Year they will post it for download. But they posted version V1.0_1217 with a note that HDR was fixed. In fact, nothing has changed. Also bad at night.
Falsificator knows how to edit HDR. But VIOFO did not send him this device.

I feel like a beta tester...
The Dashcams sucks at the moment and is not worth the price. You get same / better quality for half the price.

Promising that they change something in the future then viofo can increase the price in the future.

Currently as sad as it is its a waste of money to invest in a139 pro

 

[kamkar]

I feel like a beta tester...

Sadly that is almost always the case, well at least in the mid range systems, i can not say if high tier brands like Blackvue and Thinkware are any better.
I think we have all been let down a little by the performance of this starvis 2 sensor, but if it is the makers that cant really harness its powers, or we are simply asking too much i can not say.
But i am glad i have not run out and spent a fortune on this system as it is now, CUZ what i already have to just about the same job, though at lesser resolutions.

I do hope it is just a matter of optimization of the software, and not the sensor itself.
Most often tough, modders prove that there are hidden powers in just about any camera when it come to image quality.

The smart dashcam i am on board with on kickstarter, even if it is now past a year delayed, i am sure i will still be beta testing even if the brand claim they are working very hard and are solving problems.

 

[rambodtm]

I feel like a beta tester...
The Dashcams sucks at the moment and is not worth the price. You get same / better quality for half the price.

Promising that they change something in the future then viofo can increase the price in the future.

Currently as sad as it is its a waste of money to invest in a139 pro

Do you have it set to max bitrate?

When I checked mine against plates, at night, and doing around 40mph each way (a closing speed of 80mph give or take), I could just make out the oncoming plates. Now dont get me wrong, I was obviously just at the right point in the universe where I could read them. Other times they can be a blur.

If I checked in your situation though, I would definitely be able to read the plates. Now I will say it feels like the latest firmware that supposedly fixed the night time HDR, seemed to almost make it worse, but I might be wrong.

 

[piccolo88]

Yes it's in max bitrate. A 3min video has 1gb storage.

And yes - it's just unacceptable. Driving through traffic jam with less than 30km/h and not being able to read any license plates except the car waiting in traffic in front of me.

 

[Dadi_T]

Those cars are too far left or too far right and not on your headlights range.
To work properly HDR needs good light between your car and the number plate that you want to read.

Some photos from @TonyM at higher speeds.

 

[piccolo88]

Those cars are too far left or too far right and not on your headlights range.
To work properly HDR needs good light between your car and the number plate that you want to read.

Some photos from @TonyM at higher speeds.

It was not night pictures it was in the evening but with proper daylight still!

 

[Dadi_T]

Those are the hardest conditions for license plates readind.

 

[Dashmellow]

The Starvis 2 sensor is impressive in many ways but it was very over-hyped on this forum. Motion blur has been an issue. Still, we should eventually see improvements as the firmware continues to be tweaked.

The thing people should understand is that sensors used in dash cams are tiny and dash cams use small S-Mount (M12) lenses which is limiting. Until such time as dash cams are built with much larger sensors and a different class of lenses such a C-mount we are unlikely to see the low light (and often daytime) plate capture we are all craving. Unless there is some sort of technological break-through all we can expected is slow incremental improvements.

One thing to add is that people who have purchased their first dash cams over the last few years should consider how far things have come. When I bought my first dash cam almost 13 years ago you could get "decent" performance during the day but you could barely see anything at night. At best you could get a grainy image several yards in front of bright headlights in the dark. Back in those days 1080p dash cams were becoming the standard, before that most dash cams were only 720p.

Then finally, cameras began to appear with the Aptina AR0330 CMOS sensor coupled with the Novatek NT96650 processor which was a game changer. For the first time you could capture decent footage at night. You couldn't capture license plates very well at night but we finally had a dash cam that worked pretty well in low light to capture what was happening. Improvements will continue to appear but probably slower than we would like but it will happen.

It would have been a total fantasy to be able to buy a camera that worked as well as the A139 Pro! (or had all the features) Things have come a long way!

 

[venezian]

The Starvis 2 sensor is impressive in many ways but it was very over-hyped on this forum. Motion blur has been an issue. Still, we should eventually see improvements as the firmware continues to be tweaked.

The thing people should understand is that sensors used in dash cams are tiny and dash cams use small S-Mount (M12) lenses which is limiting. Until such time as dash cams are built with much larger sensors and a different class of lenses such a C-mount we are unlikely to see the low light (and often daytime) plate capture we are all craving. Unless there is some sort of technological break-through all we can expected is slow incremental improvements.

One thing to add is that people who have purchased their first dash cams over the last few years should consider how far things have come. When I bought my first dash cam almost 13 years ago you could get "decent" performance during the day but you could barely see anything at night. At best you could get a grainy image several yards in front of bright headlights in the dark. Back in those days 1080p dash cams were becoming the standard, before that most dash cams were only 720p.

Then finally, cameras began to appear with the Aptina AR0330 CMOS sensor coupled with the Novatek NT96650 processor which was a game changer. For the first time you could capture decent footage at night. You couldn't capture license plates very well at night but we finally had a dash cam that worked pretty well in low light to capture what was happening. Improvements will continue to appear but probably slower than we would like but it will happen.

It would have been a total fantasy to be able to buy a camera that worked as well as the A139 Pro! (or had all the features) Things have come a long way!

They have come very far. First dashcam was a blackview with translated firmware from a specific eBay seller.

now that dashcama are so commercial, ads everywhere and big brand names making them I hope to see big changes In terms of better lens.

 

[Dashmellow]

They have come very far. First dashcam was a blackview with translated firmware from a specific eBay seller.

now that dashcama are so commercial, ads everywhere and big brand names making them I hope to see big changes In terms of better lens.

You're right about how dash cams are commercialized. When I bought my first dash cam back in 2010 there were hardly any name brands to speak of and there were no direct dash cam retailers in North America. You had to buy direct from China or Hong Kong, or through eBay. Most of the cameras were generics from Chinese manufacturers and only in rare situations was there ever a firmware update available and never more than one. There was no such thing as a warranty or customer service. When ordering a new dash cam you crossed your fingers and hoped for the best because the shipping costs and transit time to send a camera back to China were just not worth it even if the seller would take back and replace a defective camera. (and defective cameras were pretty common)

One of the first dash cams I ever purchased arrived with a badly out of focus lens so I contacted the Chinese seller (defunct wholesaler/retailer FoxOffer - now manufacturer Viofo) who apologized but could only offer me a 10% discount on a new camera. In an ironic way it was a good thing for which I am grateful. I ended up opening the defective camera and refocusing the lens myself and later ended up replacing the lens with a higher quality one which dramatically improved the performance I got from the camera. This set me on the path to doing dash cam lens modifications which I've been doing ever since!

EDIT: Since I mentioned how there was a time when places like FoxOffer were once among the few places to buy dash cams, most of which were generics from China, I thought you guys might find this screen shot to be of interest even if it is a bit off topic.

 

[venezian]

You're right about how dash cams are commercialized. When I bought my first dash cam back in 2010 there were hardly any name brands to speak of and there were no direct dash cam retailers in North America. You had to buy direct from China or Hong Kong, or through eBay. Most of the cameras were generics from Chinese manufacturers and only in rare situations was there ever a firmware update available and never more than one. There was no such thing as a warranty or customer service. When ordering a new dash cam you crossed your fingers and hoped for the best because the shipping costs and transit time to send a camera back to China were just not worth it even if the seller would take back and replace a defective camera. (and defective cameras were pretty common)

One of the first dash cams I ever purchased arrived with a badly out of focus lens so I contacted the Chinese seller (defunct wholesaler/retailer FoxOffer - now manufacturer Viofo) who apologized but could only offer me a 10% discount on a new camera. In an ironic way it was a good thing for which I am grateful. I ended up opening the defective camera and refocusing the lens myself and later ended up replacing the lens with a higher quality one which dramatically improved the performance I got from the camera. This set me on the path to doing dash cam lens modifications which I've been doing ever since!

EDIT: Since I mentioned how there was a time when places like FoxOffer were once among the few places to buy dash cams, most of which were generics from China, I thought you guys might find this screen shot to be of interest even if it is a bit off topic.

View attachment 63935

I’m interested in lens replacement. Do you have any threads on this or how to?
I wonder what improvements can be had with this cam… would firmware have to be tweaked or is this more like better “glasses”?

 

[Dashmellow]

I’m interested in lens replacement. Do you have any threads on this or how to?
I wonder what improvements can be had with this cam… would firmware have to be tweaked or is this more like better “glasses”?

I don't want to push this thread further off topic but for now you might enjoy checking out the following recent thread from @TonyM. When I get some time I'll PM you some links to other aftermarket lens projects some of us have done.

A139 (Pro) Telephoto Remote Camera

For a number of years I have experimented with the use of third-party fixed telephoto and varifocal M12 lenses on a dashcam, the intention being to complement a primary wide-angle dashcam by capturing information that the primary camera might not record. A telephoto lens can do this by recording...

dashcamtalk.com

 

[TonyM]

Replacing the remote camera lens is fairly easy. Replacing the primary lens in the rotating housing attached to the main body would be rather more challenging. I'm not sure I would be comfortable attempting that on this camera, although I did buy a 4K telephoto lens with this in mind, just in case I fancy a future project....

 

[Mtz]

I drove 10min early evening and gotta admit I am kinda disappointed about the quality. Buildings etc look nice - but you can barely see (German) licences plates.
I was standing and there were cars passing me with 30km/h (20mp/h) and no chance in reading the plates. thats bonkers

To read license plates you need:
1. HDR enabled
2. The reading of the license plates is not in the middle of the frame but on the side of it
2. Your car headlights to illuminate the license plates. No powerful light on them, no number.
3. Sunset and sunrise periods are the worst scenario because there is no sun to illuminate the license plate and the car headlight is not so evident compared to the surroundings. Look at the last picture. When the license plate is illuminated directly by the headlights the license plate is visible. Even the human eye which is considered to be perfect is struggling to read the license plates at sunrise and dawn.

No matter how expensive will be the dashcam, if there is no light, will be no visible number. The HDR is helping only when the cars are moving.

Here is an example with HDR and no HDR and you can see that the license plate is illuminated properly and not poor like in your snapshots. Also the recording was during night.

 

[Julian23]

What speed were you and the other car driving?

 

[Mtz]

Something like 60 + 60 km/h, maybe more but for sure not less.
My car have original LED headlights, 1 year old.

 

[triodak]

The HDR is helping only when the cars are moving.

I disagree with that statement.
HDR (High Dynamic Range) function is about extending the range of lowest of highest illumination in single frame, that can be visualised on screen. It have nothing to do with movement. Actually in good daylight conditions HDR function reduces the FPS by half, so objects moving quickly enough will be more blurred Still images captured with HDR allow to "properly" see in very dark and in very bright regions of individual frame. This work because such frame is created from two separate images (subframes). One with short time exposure and one with long time exposure. That is the reason why HDR allows to record number plates during night conditions. At night the oncoming cars headlights are so intensive that sensor is not able to see difference between black letters and white background of the plates. The shutter is set to very short period of time and there is not enough photons reflected by plates that are hitting the CMOS sensor to create enough contrast. With HDR there is a subframe that is captured using long exposure time. In that subframe pixels are oversaturated in headlights area but in plate area there is much more photons and this allow sensor to see difference between black letters and white background.

As on the image.
Left subframe is set for long exposure in a way that allows proper capture of black tarmac (blue sky is overexposed and is white). Middle subframe is short exposure. It allows for proper sky capture but rest of the image is underexposed. Right final frame is final effect of HDR function. Two subframes are added together to create final frame with high contrast in each local block.
When we add movement to long exposure subframe we start seeing motion blur effect (ghosting) of some elements of the image. The bigger and more sensitive sensor is installed, the shorter time is needed for that long exposure subframe. Less ghosting and more readable image we receive.
That's why I disagree with your statement MTZ

The true power of IMX678 sensor is its bigger size that allows gathering of 60% more light and its technological advance that increases its sensitivity seven times in comparison to IMX335 used in Viofo 119 V3. This shortens the exposure time of every frame and every subframe in HDR mode. The Clear HDR mode in this STARVIS 2 sensor also captures those two subframes simultaneously and not in quick succession like DOL HDR in STARVIS "1" sensors. This also helps fight with motion blur effect.
But as we see bigger and better sensors came at extra price.
Everyone can have setup with 4 single channel 139 PRO. Front, back and two in front windscreen corners with telephoto lenses. Like AXION cams. Such setup would allow for really good plate recognition and recording but is expensive.

 

[Mtz]

You are talking from theory I am talking from reality. I think nobody tested more than me the IMX678 HDR at night on car license numbers. I was testing from 2022 and I made hundreds of snapshots.

Again, the only actual technology which can help reading car license plates moving in the night on the roads is HDR. If a dashcam doesn't have a working HDR forget reading car license numbers at night when the car is moving with over 15 km/h.
No HDR, no license plate at night. And guess what: on the streets the cars are moving.

I captured license plates at total speed over 200Km/h at night with EU license plates.

At 9:20 you can see an example from Vortex Radar: