Not a Happy Camper with the A139

[HonestReview]

Not sure what that means, SD cards tend to get quite hot when in use. I guess 85 the card temperature, not air temperature, so it's maximum is probably similar to the rated maximum of the camera, which I think is given as air temperature.

I suspect that the shutdown temperature for the camera is actually set mainly based on what temperature the memory cards become unreliable, in order to avoid people blaming the camera for card write errors.

85C / 185F is the maximum rating supported by Sandisk MicroSD cards. So if the temperature is exceeding 85C, the conditions exceed the recommended temperature threshold. Clearly the camera shutting off is not related to the Memory Card. The Camera would simply beep or say insert memory card if the SD card were the issue. Instead, the camera is powering down spontaneously, without exiting the current file be written. Resulting in the last video file being corrupt as the camera overheats.

So this issue has nothing to do with the Memory Card itself.

 

[HonestReview]

It's been a bit cooler here (not much) but it's been very cloudy to half-cloudy the last two days. I'm also on another jobsite now where I have some shade where I have to park. No full-sun parking here except in front and I have to let the lawn dry out a day or two before I can drive there without leaving ruts.

Phil

No worries. Been cloudy and I've been indisposed of anyway. Pretty much, not sure me testing again is going to result in any different data points. Pretty clear my camera is overheating. But if we get another sunny day, I'll try to run another test myself. This week just had IRL obligations to attend to at the moment so haven't had a chance to fool with camera much anyhow.

 

[kamkar]

It would seem the A139 are not happy about doing parking guard in the sun ( not terrible hot sun )

Today had some streaks of clouds to mess up the clear blue skies, and still the A139 set to 6 hour parking mode only do a fraction of that.
First session was from 12:59 and then until 14:23 then the car seemingly got too hot, i measured the car temperature around 16:00 the the headliner was 45 degree C and the LED side of the now off A139 measured 51 deg C.
I then moved the car to the field where it recorded from 17:24 and then it stopped at 17:44 ( no temperature measured here )

Outside temperatures was just 23 deg C, and there was some cloud cover and wind, the shade of clouds was very much appreciated for us field workers.

I dont think it is low voltage cut off, my battery are just 1 year old and the cut off is set to 12.2 volts.

 

[jokiin]

I dont think it is low voltage cut off, my battery are just 1 year old and the cut off is set to 12.2 volts.

if it was low voltage cutoff you shouldn't have any corrupt files

 

[kamkar]

No corrupted files on my camera ( using 256 GB WD purple card )
Funny observation the last files in today's 2 parking guard test sessions, are both 2 min 25 seconds long,,,,,,, that seem suspicious to me if it have kicked out due to heat, i would have expected a stop recording at a random file length.

Just noticed in my shorts, with T shirt removed, it dont take long before i am showing buttcrack, i think i will have to get some of those pants that come all the way up to your armpits.

 

[HonestReview]

No corrupted files on my camera ( using 256 GB WD purple card )
Funny observation the last files in today's 2 parking guard test sessions, are both 2 min 25 seconds long,,,,,,, that seem suspicious to me if it have kicked out due to heat, i would have expected a stop recording at a random file length.

Just noticed in my shorts, with T shirt removed, it dont take long before i am showing buttcrack, i think i will have to get some of those pants that come all the way up to your armpits.

Well in my case, the camera is powering off and the last file being written to is corrupt. I replicated the issue on a Sandisk A2 Extreme 256GB and a Sandisk High Endurance 256GB.

I am running Firmware version 1.2. What firmware are you utilizing? Also when the camera is cutting off, are all files sizes 2 mins 25 seconds when it "overheats"? This would be very unlikely if camera was overheating that all files would remain 2 minutes 25 seconds in different tests.

Last, Did you look at what I pasted here? The file size on last file isn't zero byte, but the file itself is corrupted.

One thing I noticed on my camera, is once it overheats, I will start it again, and it will overheat pretty quickly thereafter. So your short duration test 12:59 to 14:23 and then the second test of 17:24 to 17:44 is what I found in my tests. Although I did my tests back to back. Instead of waiting 3 hours.

I find it strange your camera would overheat after being offline 3 hrs?

 

[HonestReview]

if it was low voltage cutoff you shouldn't have any corrupt files

@kamkar's tests appear inconclusive.

My Tests went as follows:

1. Sandisk A2 Extreme 256GB. Camera overheats - Last files being written to corrupted.
2. Sandisk High Endurance 256GB Camera overheats - Last files being written to corrupted.

Camera overheats in 27C. I turn it back on, and of course camera is hot, so it then dies and shuts off ever quicker.

Need more standardized and conclusive testing to verify whether the issue is my camera or all cameras having issues dealing with heat. Based on Kamkar stating his camera shuts off but files aren't corrupt. It's impossible to draw a conclusion.

 

[jokiin]

@kamkar's tests appear inconclusive.

yes and no, he doesn't have any corrupt files which is the main issue you have, if it was shutting down by design due to the temp then there shouldn't be any file corruption, other cameras do this without issue, I haven't looked at an A139 though so I don't know if it is actually configured with any hardware to support high temp shutdown, could be there's something out of tolerance in your one which is impacting the results

 

[Nath]

Since we have here also @kamkar confirming the issue, I'm gonna spice things up a bit.

85C / 185F is the maximum rating supported by Sandisk MicroSD cards. So if the temperature is exceeding 85C, the conditions exceed the recommended temperature threshold. Clearly the camera shutting off is not related to the Memory Card. The Camera would simply beep or say insert memory card if the SD card were the issue. Instead, the camera is powering down spontaneously, without exiting the current file be written. Resulting in the last video file being corrupt as the camera overheats.

So this issue has nothing to do with the Memory Card itself.

Did you try it? Because I did (even by simply pulling it out of the camera) and the camera did turned off without saying anything. Only one bleep and turned off. And the last file is corrupted...

 

[HonestReview]

Since we have here also @kamkar confirming the issue, I'm gonna spice things up a bit.

Did you try it? Because I did (even by simply pulling it out of the camera) and the camera did turned off without saying anything, only one bleep and turned off. And the last file is corrupted...

I am not sure if that's a valid test or not. As you are introducing another scenario here outside of the orignal test parameters. You are ejecting the memory card during mid write. So yes, it's 100% going to be corrupt on the file being written. Also, the action of ejecting the memory card while the camera is on could also be a feature to trigger the camera to shut off.

Does that mean the overheating and file corruption is related to you ejecting the memory card during mid write and thus causing the Camera to shut off? It's possible but inconclusive. We can't say A (overheating and corruption) are simulated by Ejecting the Memory Card (simulating it not found) and thus causing corruption. Not enough data exists yet to make such a conclusion.

We need several others to test the overheating scenario to see if their camera powers off. If their camera powers off, are their files corrupt. If #1 or #2 are Negative, then we can draw a conclusion some conclusions.

I tested two memory cards, albeit both Sandisk at 85C / 185F thresholds, and got the exact same results.

In @kamkar trial, his card is a WD Purple 256GB. The spec sheet lists the threshold as 185F / 85C. Same as the Sandisk.

WD Purpose Spec Sheet

 

[Nath]

I am not sure if that's a valid test or not. As you are introducing another scenario here outside of the test parameters.

You've jumped on the @Nigel's valid test wagon quite quickly. Don't forget you are measuring temperature via kitchen meat thermometer...

You are ejecting the memory card during mid write. So yes, it's 100% going to be corrupt on the file being written. Also, the action of ejecting the memory card while the camera is on could also be a feature to cause the camera to shut off.

Does that mean the overheating and file corruption is related to you ejecting the memory card during mid write, causing the Camera to shut off? It's possible but inconclusive.

We need several others to test the overheating scenario to see if their camera powers off. If their camera powers off, are their files corrupt. If #1 or #2 are Negative, then we can draw a conclusion some conclusions.

I tested two memory cards, albeit both Sandisk at 85C / 185F thresholds, and got the exact same results.

And what do you think it would happen when card is overheated? Card starts to have issues with writes/reads and at some point even connection issues. Actually, when you pull it out of dashcam, you are more generous to the camera because there is a pin which gives the information that card was ejected... (based on which camera knows what just happened)

I have SDcard extender which I wanted to use for test of random issues with a card but it seems the SDcard dummy is a bit thinner and it doesn't click into A139's slot so I've tried at least simple ejection and to my own surprise it died as well. Look, I just wanted to point out that your assumption about "clearly not SDcard issue" could be wrong...

In @kamkar trial, his card is a WD Purple 256GB. The spec sheet lists the threshold as 185F / 85C. Same as the Sandisk.

WD Purpose Spec Sheet

But he doesn't have corrupted files... (not to mention, after some experience with SanDisk cards, I wouldn't trust this brand that much)

Btw: Haven't you measured about 93°C on top of your dashcam? That's quite toasty and the probe wasn't even close to the chipset's heatsink or PCB (where is SDcard slot soldered...) and I think that's above the threshold of both specs of SanDisk Extreme/Endurance as well as WD Purple

 

[HonestReview]

You've jumped on the @Nigel's valid test wagon quite quickly. Don't forget you are measuring temperature via kitchen meat thermometer...

I'm trying to compare apples to apples first. Making sure the parameters are the same, without introducing another variable. Science is about replicating the same problem or solution over and over.

And what do you think it would happen when card is overheated? Card starts to have issues with writes/reads and at some point even connection issues. Actually, when you pull it out of dashcam, you are more generous to the camera because there is a pin which gives the information that card was ejected... (based on which camera knows what just happened)

I have SDcard extender which I wanted to use for test of random issues with a card but it seems the SDcard dummy is a bit thinner and it doesn't click into A139's slot so I've tried at least simple ejection and to my own surprise it died as well. Look, I just wanted to point out that your assumption about "clearly not SDcard issue" could be wrong...

Only way you'll know if ejecting a memory card mid write is identical to Camera / Memory card overheating is to sit in a hot car to see what happens when camera shuts off. Does it Beep? Does it say insert memory card? Or does it simply turn off.

Then we have to narrow down the factor that causes camera to shut off. Is it definitively the memory card itself. I.E. Card is too hot to write to and camera shuts off because memory card is no longer "present". Or is the camera getting too hot and simply shutting itself off.

We have to determine whether A or B is the problem first, before assuming another test (ejecting memory card) simulates the overheating and file corruption.

 

[Nath]

@HonestReview Interesting, you have such scientific mind but you still excluded the possibility of an issue with SDcard without any tests with the conclusion:

Clearly the camera shutting off is not related to the Memory Card. The Camera would simply beep or say insert memory card if the SD card were the issue.

Despite it was mentioned here multiple times.

Unfortunately I still don't have much of the warm weather to be able to check anything related to overheating (on a second though your critical starting temperatures aren't much higher) but luckily the whole next week should be sunny with 28-29°C. The funny thing is that for this week I have even a second thermocamera.

Just out of curiosity: @HonestReview @kamkar I think both of you do have hardwire-kit, am I right? After A139 gets overheated does the signal from HWK to change a mode do anything about it or is the camera dead until human interaction?

Only way you'll know if ejecting a memory card mid write is identical to Camera / Memory card overheating is to sit in a hot car to see what happens when camera shuts off. Does it Beep? Does it say insert memory card? Or does it simply turn off.

What do you think it happens when card is overheated? Do you think it's going to wait until the last file is done writing..? Since the camera doesn't like even a bare ejection, to assume it dies when a card connection issue due to being overheated occurs, is not that far from reality.

 

[jokiin]

Don't need to wait for warmer weather to find out what's happening, get your thermometer, a heat gun or hairdryer and start your simulation

 

[Nath]

Don't need to wait for warmer weather to find out what's happening, get your thermometer, a heat gun or hairdryer and start your simulation

Hey, I paid for my A139s, not gonna toast them for nothing...

But I'm also curious about the Sun part.

 

[jokiin]

Hey, I paid for my A139s, not gonna toast them for nothing... [emoji23]

But I'm also curious about the Sun part.

@HonestReview can do it, then he can see at what temperature it's shutting down and what happens to the recordings

 

[SawMaster]

Well everything seems to still be good here. The only anomaly I can find on my card is that the RO folder is empty, but I can't recall the G-sensor activating since the last card formatting so that may not be unusual. I opened numerous files including the last 3 before parking mode shut down and all were good. These were 2 hours duration which my timer is set at. I'm going to set that to 6 hours today which should be enough to find any overheating problems if it doesn't hit low-voltage cutoff first.

Still a couple days before hot weather returns here, but it will be the hottest so far this year. Will see if I can find my thermometer today. Hope it still works, been about 5 years since I last used it to set a water heater max temp for a code inspection.

Phil

 

[kamkar]

Yeah i was preoccupied working in the field so not able to chack in on car that often, also for the first part my car was parked out front of my friends place, i then moved the car to the open field as the shade of a tree was getting near to the car.
Temperatures was measured with the temp gun my friend managed to find

Yesterday all my files was the 3 minutes they was supposed to be, aside for the ones cut short by be stopping or the 2 where the camera stopped for some reason
It is noon here now and i will go for a short drive soon, the camera are still set to 6 hours of parking guard so i am going to let that run, it also seem to be about same temperature outside as yesterday.

I have not tested every single file from yesterday for integrity, just some spot testing with focus on last files recorded + some at random.
If i get the same times today, then i might well lower cut off value to 12.0 volts just to make sure it is not that i bang my head against, but i doubt it, the battery are only 1 year old and have not endured parking guard torture as i only used 1 hour on the timer.

Also i have the DR beside the A139, i might also turn parking guard on in that to see how it do, where its main unit is it might even get some sun too if it is high in the sky.

 

[kamkar]

Okay.

The A139 and my SG9663DR are now on parking guard, both set to 6 hours, both with their respective HWK set til 12.2 V cut off.
Parking guard fight is on.

 

[Nath]

Okay.

The A139 and my SG9663DR are now on parking guard, both set to 6 hours, both with their respective HWK set til 12.2 V cut off.
Parking guard fight is on.

I thought for a second that you are going to stream it.