Preparing my "Best Dashcams" video

[Augustus]

Here is where i have a problem with SSD

Viofo Website says 4TB support for SSD

now today i look at website and they have now updated it again saying there are other 4tb SSD supported. Yet again no update to any of the worldwide reseller network saying this has been updated opr these are the model#s and build dates we recommend.

But for 3 months no 4TB SSD was supported.

How long will these be supported for? Also what Firmware are they supported on? Too many variables. I think Viofo needs to build there own SSD because too much uncertainty.



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This is exactly it, and I'm glad you as a retailer and some others now are pointing this out. If there's too many variables and you can't get the implementation right then why do you even have the feature advertised? And advertised as a key selling point too.

It's happened for a year or so now, so I have little faith in the process. Happy to be proven wrong though of course.

 

[Mtz]

But for 3 months no 4TB SSD was supported.

As in your picture, Viofo wrote ``Based on our testing``.
So they finished the T9 4TB testing 3 months ago.

The Vortex Radar video will be published someday after today. So does not matter what was wrote on the Viofo website more than 3 months ago because the video is for the future viewers. Of course Vortex Radar can say something like Beware the recommendations can be changed and because of this he should not include in his video the actual recommended SSDs because maybe in 2038 that list to not be valid. Just to say that people should buy the recommended SSDs by Viofo which is offered at the product description.

From my memory I remember things were happening also with SD cards. Why? I think that somebody wrote above why. I will write some examples:
- many years ago the infamous SanDisk Ultra which was killing the recordings of all dashcams. Because of the controller.
- Transcend recommended by dashcam manufacturers and then removed
- Kingston recommended and then removed
- Samsung Pro recommended and then removed. They changed the controller to lower the production costs
- Sandisk High endurance recommended and then removed. Maybe also because of the controller.
- Sandisk Max endurance is still recommended.

A SD card inside a dashcam is the most stressed card in any device in the world I know. Heat and continuous recording. But the SSD will be less stressed because it is expected to be mounted in a place with less heat and also their surface is bigger and there are better chances to be cooled down. Less stressed storage, less stressed dashcam.

And now I will explain why I insisted for more than one year to allow parking mode on SSD (some user from this forum knew this):
1. if the heat is the main problem of the dashcam with a storage on SD Card in Parking Mode, the SSD is not helping at all against this problem if the camera is recording on SSD only in driving mode. Usually the dashcams are damaged in Parking Mode. If a good quality manufacturer will sell dashcams without parking mode they will have almost 0 returns. The problems appear because of the Parking Mode. How? Poor card used in parking mode, sun protectors used in Parking Mode.
So recording on SSD in parking mode is removing the biggest culprit.
2. still recording on SD card in Impact Mode? No problem! Because until the impact detection the camera can be hot only because of the sun (and the sun is not creating problems to a powered off dashcam) and the card is chill. Start recording for just 60 seconds? No problem? Not enough time for the dashcam or the card to be damaged by heat.

Are you living in a country with so much heat? Buy a dashcam with SSD!
The good dashcams are killed not by direct heat but by the card and if a windshield sun protector is used. You, as a installer you should tell to all your clients to never use a windshield sun protector on a car with a dashcam in parking mode. I saw dashcams melted because of that fcking sun protectors. Lens case melted, buttons melted. And I am sure 100% it was not the manufacturer fault.

And what is the conclusion now?
To not recommend a dashcam with SSD?
Not!
Recommend only a dashcam with SSD for the areas with high temperatures. Only dashcams with SSD support!

So... instead to ban recommendation of dashcams with SSD, because of allowing SSD recording in parking mode, we have now a high recommendation for a dashcam with SSD.
I personally recommend dashcams with SSD for regions with high temperatures, they are the best. Just buy a recommended SSD! What dashcam? Viofo A329S. What SSD? SanDisk Extreme under 2TB. Problem solved.

 

[SafeDriveSolutions]

Here is my response

 

[Mtz]

That is a very good and real top. I agree with it 100%!

But because I am not an average Joe searching on google or Aliexpress or ebay for the first time about the best dashcam, I want some other features which are not included in that top and can not be included in a normal top because of too many possible variables.

So I want a Reliable camera with Great video quality and Parking Mode but also with SSD, with telephoto, 21:9 mode, with video multiplexing, with side cameras, with parking geofencing, with cloud. If not all of them are available in just one dashcam I will cut my preferences starting from the last one.
My next build will be with 2 systems with 6 cameras (4K front, 4K telephoto, 2K rear, 2K left, 2K right, 2K interior at 210 degrees) but without cloud unfortunately. Regarding the cloud, I have a temporary cheap and easy solution in my signature.

 

[SafeDriveSolutions]

That is a very good and real top. I agree with it 100%!

But because I am not an average Joe searching on google or Aliexpress or ebay for the first time about the best dashcam, I want some other features which are not included in that top and can not be included in a normal top because of too many possible variables.

So I want a Reliable camera with Great video quality and Parking Mode but also with SSD, with telephoto, 21:9 mode, with video multiplexing, with side cameras, with parking geofencing, with cloud. If not all of them are available in just one dashcam I will cut my preferences starting from the last one.
My next build will be with 2 systems with 6 cameras (4K front, 4K telephoto, 2K rear, 2K left, 2K right, 2K interior at 210 degrees) but without cloud unfortunately. Regarding the cloud, I have a temporary cheap and easy solution in my signature.

I appreciate your thought in all your responses. But I have to ask one question

If we know heat is a problem then why dont we make a dash camera that will not shutdown from heat? Vueroid D21 was at over 210 degrees and would not shutdown.

 

[Mtz]

In my opinion a dashcam should shut down when the heat is really affecting it and this to be based on real life and not what some engineer test in a lab. I consider that the temperature sensor is not placed where it should be and also the firmware is not optimized to shut down the camera when it really needs it.

And some example which you will understand better because your job: a car battery which is going to 12V every day because of a dashcam will have a much shorter life compared to a car battery which is going at 12V maybe once a month. In theory a battery discharged at 12V should be not affected. But in real life it is if this his happening too often.

Now back to the dashcams, if the heat is on the dashcam almost daily, the temperature inside it will affect the thermal paste on the CPU and it will lose the properties. After some time the processor will go hotter and hotter and even the dashcam is still working, it is preparing to die because the processor is not cooling as expected even the dashcam is not so exposed to the sun. Usually the dashcam is dying in September because the weather become cooler and the thermal paste to will start to peel off between the heatsink and chipset due to thermal paste shrinkage.
And when the SD Card it is also too hot, it will start to work poor and the dascham processor will make efforts to encode and write the videos on an affected card. And at some moment the dashcam will fail to work just because it can not write to the card.

 

[lufa6977]

In my opinion a dashcam should shut down when the heat is really affecting it and this to be based on real life and not what some engineer test in a lab. I consider that the temperature sensor is not placed where it should be and also the firmware is not optimized to shut down the camera when it really needs it.

There is an internal temperature sensor in the NovaTek, and possibly another on the board. As far as I know, the shutdown is based on the internal NovaTek-detected temperature. I could be wrong about that.

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Now back to the dashcams, if the heat is on the dashcam almost daily, the temperature inside it will affect the thermal paste on the CPU and it will lose the properties.

This is something I noticed on the VIOFO A229 Pro. It uses a combination of thermal pad and thermal paste. On my two A229 Pro, I found the thermal paste was in a state of dry and crumbly. The pastes ability to convey heat was all but lost.

And when the SD Card it is also too hot, it will start to work poor and the dascham processor will make efforts to encode and write the videos on an affected card. And at some moment the dashcam will fail to work just because it can not write to the card.

Heat is a killer for all memory devices. Presently, it seems the Crucial X9 and X10 are holding up well with the VIOFO SSD-enabled dashcams. I suspect that after a few years of high and low temperatures, these SSDs may also suffer from write or read failures. Techies and dashcam enthusiasts should already know and understand this. The problem is with the average user who has no clue and thinks their SSD will last for years, sitting in their hot glove box.

 

[SafeDriveSolutions]

It is hard enough to explain how the hardwire cable is not in the box and the SD card. Now you want people to be told. "Oh yeah you want it to work in high heat? Please go buy this $200 to $600 ssd so that it works in high heat."

I sound like i am beating a dead horse here. Just make a dash camera that withstands high heat. Vueroid seems to get it.... Or am i missing something. if heat is such an issue why not make a high heat dash camera edition. Screw all these added options and just make great video quality and high heat tolerance.

 

[lufa6977]

Here is my response


View attachment 88362

Reliability is first and foremost, in my view. With STARIS and STARVIS 2 being virtually the standard now for any quality dashcam, image quality is being standardized. That leaves Reliability and Feature Set for the manufacturers to work with.

At present, I don't think any other dashcam can compete with the VUEROID D21 or the S1 4K in terms of functioning in extreme heat. The VUEROID is engineered to endure, overcome, and outlast the heat.

edit: spelling

 

[GPak]

Here is my response

View attachment 88362

Sorry, but this is a mutually exclusive survey/poll, so it may not reflect the true picture.
Rather, it's misleading!

I'm surprised that the results don't show 100% vote for reliability, and some people choose anything over the reliability of a device whose primary purpose is to protect you.
For example, it seems that 13% are so desperate for parking that they don't particularly care about reliability or video quality.

A good survey should allow multiple options to be selected and should take into account the weight/importance/priority of each option.
Only then will it be useful.

 

[Vortex Radar]

It is hard enough to explain how the hardwire cable is not in the box and the SD card. Now you want people to be told. "Oh yeah you want it to work in high heat? Please go buy this $200 to $600 ssd so that it works in high heat."

I sound like i am beating a dead horse here. Just make a dash camera that withstands high heat. Vueroid seems to get it.... Or am i missing something. if heat is such an issue why not make a high heat dash camera edition. Screw all these added options and just make great video quality and high heat tolerance.

It doesn't have to be either/or. They certainly could make a high heat edition of a dashcam with a lower res sensor that generates less heat, lower bitrate, added cooling, more safety measures when the dashcam starts to heat up, etc. It's all a balance though between features, component selection, video quality, pricepoint, and so on.

It can be hard to quantify reliability while it's much easier to advertise and demonstrate the benefits of higher res sensors, more parking modes, and so forth, and so that's what companies list out on their sales pages.

SSD's can be helpful, but like any accessory, some options work better than others and part of testing is to figure out which ones are good and which ones to skip. It's easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but SSD's have their benefits with increased storage capacity, increased security, and added cooling with offloading some of the thermal demands to an external SSD. If the benefits outweigh the costs, then go for it, and personally I like having the option and seeing companies continue to innovate and try new things. Not every experiment will stick, but some will.

Anyways, time to shoot the video! Excellent discussion so far everyone!

 

[GPak]

For me, the Key advantage of the A329S is not its support for SSDs specifically, but its support for remotely mounted/concealed recording media in general, which, besides the SSDs, includes microSD cards, regular SD cards, and probably USB flash drives.
Remotely installed/concealed recording media is a great feature, helping with heat/reliability and with evidence security.
I think Viofo should emphasize this, and in the case of the microSD card, there shouldn't be any compatibility issues when using a proprietary Viofo cable and microSD card.

I'm planning to replace my old Jeep and am looking for a new dash cam.
Unless something changes in the next few months, I prefer the A329S over the S1 4K.
Mainly:
- Because of the ability to remotely install/hide the microSD card
- Because of the low-bitrate parking option
- Because Viofo finally implemented Geo-fencing (sealed my decision)

And I hope Viofo keeps its word and eventually supports true over-the-air firmware updates (OTA)

 

[Mtz]

The problem is with the average user who has no clue and thinks their SSD will last for years, sitting in their hot glove box.

In the glove box is not a high temperature.
The advice to put the SSD into the glove box is the worst advice about mounting a SSD. If a thief will break into your car the first thing he will look is the glove box. If he is not interested about the dashcam it will be for sure interested about the SSD and will steal it. And your evidence will be gone.

Viofo finally implemented Geo-fencing (sealed my decision)

Not just one Geofencing but 3 geofencing.
But I expect to be some problems with underground parking if some smart idea about this will be not implemented.

 

[lufa6977]

In the glove box is not a high temperature.

Maybe not in Romania. 🙂 But I can tell you that in Texas, if the inside of your car is 170°F, the glove box is at the same temperature. I doubt there is a single good place in a car to put an SSD, attempting to avoid temperature extremes. This is evident with the external battery packs used as auxiliary power for dashcams, and it's why we see the BMS set not to charge or discharge at certain external temperatures. I certainly would not suggest sticking the SSD or even an extended SD in the headliner, simply from the heat produced by the sun striking the roof of the car. The larger SSDs, like the SanDisk Extreme series, are more problematic to hide, but the smaller ones, like my Crucial X10, are much easier to hide.

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Not just one Geofencing but 3 geofencing.
But I expect to be some problems with underground parking if some smart idea about this will be not implemented. One idea is to have an On/Off setting that when the GPS signal is lost the camera to enter in parking mode. If you will chose off, the camera to not enter in parking mode when GPS signal is lost. But the actual setting of 8km/h to be independent of the GPS signal lost and work as before.

The Vueroid S1 4K has three parking zones, which I have found helpful.

Interesting idea about the loss of GPS enables Parking Recording. However, this could be risky for some users in the event of an unintended GPS loss, especially while driving in an open area. With the loss of GPS, there is also a loss of Speed measurement, so if in an underground facility, I am uncertain about the logic needed to determine which Parking Mode the dash camera should assume.

 

[GPak]

....
Not just one Geofencing but 3 geofencing.
But I expect to be some problems with underground parking if some smart idea about this will be not implemented. One idea is to have an On/Off setting that when the GPS signal is lost the camera to enter in parking mode. If you will chose off, the camera to not enter in parking mode when GPS signal is lost. But the actual setting of 8km/h to be independent of the GPS signal lost and work as before.

Fair point,
Yes, there are always situations where some features don't work as intended.
I think the warning in the manual would be sufficient for now, until a better solution is found.
Something like this:
Warning:
Geo-Fencing may not work in areas with limited or No satellite signal (such as heavily covered or underground parking garages).

 

[Mtz]

I doubt there is a single good place in a car to put an SSD, attempting to avoid temperature extremes.

You can put it almost everywhere except the dashboard where is direct sun or in front of some vent holes which are blowing hot air during summer. You are saying about high temperatures in a car which is killing devices like this is happening in real life. During my almost 20 years of internet reading I learned that are some people which are exaggerating the things. I learned to avoid such advice as yours.
I advice people to mount the SSD suspended somewhere under the dashboard. Near the fuse tape box for example.

The larger SSDs, like the SanDisk Extreme series, are more problematic to hide, but the smaller ones, like my Crucial X10, are much easier to hide.

Larger SSDs have better cooling.

Warning:
Geo-Fencing may not work in areas with limited or No satellite signal (such as heavily covered or underground parking garages).

The Vueroid S1 4K has three parking zones, which I have found helpful.

Viofo has 3 zones too. They can have 10 zones if they want.

Interesting idea about the loss of GPS enables Parking Recording.

Yeah, some companies are ready to stole this idea.

However, this could be risky for some users in the event of an unintended GPS loss, especially while driving in an open area. With the loss of GPS, there is also a loss of Speed measurement, so if in an underground facility, I am uncertain about the logic needed to determine which Parking Mode the dash camera should assume.

It is very good that you don't understand the idea, I will not explain more so in this way other companies will work harder to implement the idea.

Warning:
Geo-Fencing may not work in areas with limited or No satellite signal (such as heavily covered or underground parking garages).

Your idea is nice, but it is not needed because you can not set the Geofencing zone where is no internet. For example you can not go underground and set the GPS geofencing location because there is no GPS. I will not go further with this idea.

 

[SafeDriveSolutions]

You can put it almost everywhere except the dashboard where is direct sun or in front of some vent holes which are blowing hot air during summer. You are saying about high temperatures in a car which is killing devices like this is happening in real life. During my almost 20 years of internet reading I learned that are some people which are exaggerating the things. I learned to avoid such advice as yours.
I advice people to mount the SSD suspended somewhere under the dashboard. Near the fuse tape box for example.


Larger SSDs have better cooling.




Viofo has 3 zones too. They can have 10 zones if they want.


Yeah, some companies are ready to stole this idea.


It is very good that you don't understand the idea, I will not explain more so in this way other companies will work harder to implement the idea.


Your idea is nice, but it is not needed because you can not set the Geofencing zone where is no internet. For example you can not go underground and set the GPS geofencing location because there is no GPS. I will not go further with this idea.

The problem with engineering is they are limited to what they have learned. A lot of stuff said in this post shows what I call “Limiting Beliefs.”

You are limiting what can be done because of rules or guidelines you have set.

For example: viofo told us low power impact detection ( 1.5 year ago) was not possible with Viofo dash cameras. They said Vueroid could only do it because no supercap.

I then said guess what Thinkware does it with a supercap.

Over a year later and Viofo has low power impact detection.

This industry when I talk to manufacturers it amazes me how much they limit their beliefs to what they can accomplish.

So I like to push them to make changes.

A lot of the stuff said in the posts above are due to limiting the beliefs of what engineering has accomplished. Not what they could possibly do.

 

[Mtz]

For example: viofo told us low power impact detection ( 1.5 year ago) was not possible with Viofo dash cameras.

That was not because of Viofo but because of Novatek. If no Novatek chipset with this feature, then no Viofo with this feature.
I imagine that before the new chipset which implemented the LPIM, the dashcam with such feature was not with a Novatek chipset. What was the chipset on Vueroid when they had this feature? I know that in the latest model they can use Novatek because also Novatek have LPIM.

A lot of the stuff said in the posts above are due to limiting the beliefs of what engineering has accomplished. Not what they could possibly do.

I agree but regarding the temperatures, the engineering don't want to increase the price of internal components just because some guy want to mount the SSD under the car roof. They need also to balance the costs.
The most frequent case is the SD Cards. Just few cards are used in dashcams so they don't want to make Endurance cards as standard cards because the price is much higher.
The engineers can do things but they are not approved because of the costs.

I read somewhere a feedback about the Viofo dashcams that he is not recommending it because there are too many settings and features. All those settings were made by engineers and approved by the managers. And then come some guy telling them that there is too much work.
I am very happy that I can find a lot of settings to customize the dashcam to work as the best for me and then come some guy complaining that is too complicate. That guy should know that nobody is forcing him to enter into the camera settings. The default settings on Viofo cameras and maybe all other cameras are the best, just insert the card and start it.
As you can see, in latest firmware they implemented a quick menu which is telling you only once to set the camera language and the time zone. Maybe that guy is tired also about these two settings which are needed to be done only once in his life?

 

[GPak]

....
Your idea is nice, but it is not needed because you can not set the Geofencing zone where is no internet. For example you can not go underground and set the GPS geofencing location because there is no GPS. I will not go further with this idea.

I thought it was self-evident, and that's exactly what I meant.
The idea behind the warning was this:
-Someone living in a residential complex with an underground garage buys a camera that includes a geofencing function, and then can't set it up.
-Hopefully, he/she will read the user manual and understand the limitations of GPS/geofencing before complaining and writing a negative review.

The user manual could include a more detailed explanation of these limitations.
A brief explanation could also be included in the product description so that customers are aware of this before purchasing.

 

[GPak]

.......
But I expect to be some problems with underground parking if some smart idea about this will be not implemented.....

The idea with the switch is OK, but how is that different from the existing camera on/off switch?
That's exactly what I do today:
I park in the garage and manually turn off the camera (I call this manual "geofencing" 🤣).
Otherwise, the camera is switching to parking mode based on the ACC input signal, regardless of the GPS signal.

A good Geofencing feature should do this automatically.

Here's an idea how this can be implemented:
-In case of GPS signal loss, the camera should make a decision based on the last known GPS position.
-If this position is within the geofence zone, the camera will not switch to parking mode after losing the GPS signal.
-This allows you to set a geofence zone at the entrance to the problematic underground garage.

Thus, when approaching the entrance of the underground garage, the camera detects the geofence zone; after entering the garage, the GPS signal is lost, but since the last known location was within the geofence zone, the camera will not switch to parking mode.
Problem solved.