Preparing my "Best Dashcams" video

[Mtz]

Simply disable GPS in the settings (simulating a loss of GPS signal) and see if the camera enters and exits parking mode when the ignition is turned Off and On, respectively.

No.
The question about GPS signal lost was when the camera is in normal driving mode recording and not when you switch off the ignition.
As I already replied, when it is used a hardwire kit the camera not enter in parking mode from driving mode when the GPS signal is lost. This forced parking mode because of GPS lost is possible only when using cigarette lighter power adapter or some USB power source. But not a hardwire kit.

If the parking mode was set in the camera settings, when you turn off the car engine and hardwire kit was used, no matter if there is GPS signal or not, the camera will enter in parking mode.

 

[qusejr2]

There is an internal temperature sensor in the NovaTek, and possibly another on the board. As far as I know, the shutdown is based on the internal NovaTek-detected temperature. I could be wrong about that.




This is something I noticed on the VIOFO A229 Pro. It uses a combination of thermal pad and thermal paste. On my two A229 Pro, I found the thermal paste was in a state of dry and crumbly. The pastes ability to convey heat was all but lost.




Heat is a killer for all memory devices. Presently, it seems the Crucial X9 and X10 are holding up well with the VIOFO SSD-enabled dashcams. I suspect that after a few years of high and low temperatures, these SSDs may also suffer from write or read failures. Techies and dashcam enthusiasts should already know and understand this. The problem is with the average user who has no clue and thinks their SSD will last for years, sitting in their hot glove your

In my opinion a dashcam should shut down when the heat is really affecting it and this to be based on real life and not what some engineer test in a lab. I consider that the temperature sensor is not placed where it should be and also the firmware is not optimized to shut down the camera when it really needs it.

And some example which you will understand better because your job: a car battery which is going to 12V every day because of a dashcam will have a much shorter life compared to a car battery which is going at 12V maybe once a month. In theory a battery discharged at 12V should be not affected. But in real life it is if this his happening too often.

Now back to the dashcams, if the heat is on the dashcam almost daily, the temperature inside it will affect the thermal paste on the CPU and it will lose the properties. After some time the processor will go hotter and hotter and even the dashcam is still working, it is preparing to die because the processor is not cooling as expected even the dashcam is not so exposed to the sun. Usually the dashcam is dying in September because the weather become cooler and the thermal paste to will start to peel off between the heatsink and chipset due to thermal paste shrinkage.
And when the SD Card it is also too hot, it will start to work poor and the dascham processor will make efforts to encode and write the videos on an affected card. And at some moment the dashcam will fail to work just because it can not write to the card.

That's why Vueroid dashcam check the interal temp and shutdown the dashcam until the temp is lower, and after the temp is lower than some point , the dashcam start again.
To check the interal temp, Vueroid dash cam use internal temp sensor of CPU ( in case of S1 4K).

 

[qusejr2]

Reliability is first and foremost, in my view. With STARIS and STARVIS 2 being virtually the standard now for any quality dashcam, image quality is being standardized. That leaves Reliability and Feature Set for the manufacturers to work with.

At present, I don't think any other dashcam can compete with the VUEROID D21 or the S1 4K in terms of functioning in extreme heat. The VUEROID is engineered to endure, overcome, and outlast the heat.

edit: spelling

Vueroid's design philosophy is as follows:

1. Minimize heat generation as much as possible.
: Optimize CPU operating speed, bus speed, power IC optimization, etc.
2. Maximize heat dissipation.
: Heat dissipation holes, heat sinks, etc.
3. Use reliable components.
: Try to avoid using ICs that are sensitive to heat.
4. Always operate within the operating temperature.
: If the temperature reaches an insurmountable level even after applying steps 1, 2, and 3, the device will stop operating and wait until the temperature cools before resuming operation. This is the most challenging part and is closely tied to reliability. Users don't expect the device to operate under all heat conditions. However, they do expect it to operate at all other times, even if it shuts down during a hot day.

 

[qusejr2]

Maybe not in Romania. 🙂 But I can tell you that in Texas, if the inside of your car is 170°F, the glove box is at the same temperature. I doubt there is a single good place in a car to put an SSD, attempting to avoid temperature extremes. This is evident with the external battery packs used as auxiliary power for dashcams, and it's why we see the BMS set not to charge or discharge at certain external temperatures. I certainly would not suggest sticking the SSD or even an extended SD in the headliner, simply from the heat produced by the sun striking the roof of the car. The larger SSDs, like the SanDisk Extreme series, are more problematic to hide, but the smaller ones, like my Crucial X10, are much easier to hide.




The Vueroid S1 4K has three parking zones, which I have found helpful.

Interesting idea about the loss of GPS enables Parking Recording. However, this could be risky for some users in the event of an unintended GPS loss, especially while driving in an open area. With the loss of GPS, there is also a loss of Speed measurement, so if in an underground facility, I am uncertain about the logic needed to determine which Parking Mode the dash camera should assume.

that's why S1 support yards opiton ,( 30 / 50 / 100). User can set the area even parking the underground.

 

[GPak]

that's why S1 support yards opiton ,( 30 / 50 / 100). User can set the area even parking the underground.

@qusejr2
This is good to know, thank you!
I assume it works similar to what I described in post #54 and #58, so you can set up geofence zone at the entrance of underground garage and camera will respect that geofencing, even if GPS signal is lost inside of garage.

I really like your camera; It has OTA updates, excellent video quality, a good geofencing function, HDR+IPC, a low-power impact detection parking (LPID), etc., but..........
- I don't understand why you decided not to offer a low-bitrate (LBR) parking mode, since it's the simplest option to implement?
This is deal killer for me.
- And do you think it would be worth considering supporting remotely connected recording media, perhaps string with a microSD card with an extension cable?

I would still like the manufacturers to consider the following:
- Automatic HDR switching On/Off depending on actual lighting conditions (perhaps, using a light sensor with some delay, similar to car’s auto-headlights), and not just based on time, which requires reconfiguration 4 times a year.
- Low-power motion detection (LPMD) parking mode, as the low-power impact detection (LPID) is, in my opinion, not reliable enough to be activated in case of minor damage.
- A multi-function Bluetooth remote button with ability to connect to multiple dashcams.
- Higher-capacity Lithium-titanate (LTO) or lithium-manganese-iron-phosphate (LFMP) or possibly even Sodium-Ion dedicated batteries for parking, to improve performance for cold weather conditions.

 

[qusejr2]

@qusejr2
This is good to know, thank you!
I assume it works similar to what I described in post #54 and #58, so you can set up geofence zone at the entrance of underground garage and camera will respect that geofencing, even if GPS signal is lost inside of garage.

I really like your camera; It has OTA updates, excellent video quality, a good geofencing function, HDR+IPC, a low-power impact detection parking (LPID), etc., but..........
- I don't understand why you decided not to offer a low-bitrate (LBR) parking mode, since it's the simplest option to implement?
This is deal killer for me.
- And do you think it would be worth considering supporting remotely connected recording media, perhaps string with a microSD card with an extension cable?

I would still like the manufacturers to consider the following:
- Automatic HDR switching On/Off depending on actual lighting conditions (perhaps, using a light sensor with some delay, similar to car’s auto-headlights), and not just based on time, which requires reconfiguration 4 times a year.
- Low-power motion detection (LPMD) parking mode, as the low-power impact detection (LPID) is, in my opinion, not reliable enough to be activated in case of minor damage.
- A multi-function Bluetooth remote button with ability to connect to multiple dashcams.
- Higher-capacity Lithium-titanate (LTO) or lithium-manganese-iron-phosphate (LFMP) or possibly even Sodium-Ion dedicated batteries for parking, to improve performance for cold weather conditions.

About low bitrate parking mode - we will consder about it .
HDR switching : during switching mode, we have to stop recording 1~2 seconds. it cause some critical issue. we are afraid it.
Low-power motion detection (LPMD) parking mode, as the low-power impact detection (LPID) is, in my opinion, not reliable enough to be activated in case of minor damage.
=> we understand this point , so we are considering radar.
A multi-function Bluetooth remote button with ability to connect to multiple dashcams.
=> I'm not sure if this is a feature consumers really want, and I doubt it will be used often.
- Higher-capacity Lithium-titanate (LTO) or lithium-manganese-iron-phosphate (LFMP) or possibly even Sodium-Ion dedicated batteries for parking, to improve performance for cold weather conditions.
=> We haven't considered using a battery yet.

 

[qusejr2]

About low bitrate parking mode - we will consder about it .
HDR switching : during switching mode, we have to stop recording 1~2 seconds. it cause some critical issue. we are afraid it.
Low-power motion detection (LPMD) parking mode, as the low-power impact detection (LPID) is, in my opinion, not reliable enough to be activated in case of minor damage.
=> we understand this point , so we are considering radar.
A multi-function Bluetooth remote button with ability to connect to multiple dashcams.
=> I'm not sure if this is a feature consumers really want, and I doubt it will be used often.
- Higher-capacity Lithium-titanate (LTO) or lithium-manganese-iron-phosphate (LFMP) or possibly even Sodium-Ion dedicated batteries for parking, to improve performance for cold weather conditions.
=> We haven't considered using a battery yet.

This is deal killer for me.
- And do you think it would be worth considering supporting remotely connected recording media, perhaps string with a microSD card with an extension cable?
=>I don't think about it because I expect it will be very difficult to secure reliability.

 

[Hack_man]

GPak said:

I would still like the manufacturers to consider the following:
- Automatic HDR switching On/Off depending on actual lighting conditions (perhaps, using a light sensor with some delay, similar to car’s auto-headlights), and not just based on time, which requires reconfiguration 4 times a year.

HDR switching : during switching mode, we have to stop recording 1~2 seconds. it cause some critical issue. we are afraid it.

1. I don't understand the last comment. The S1 has HDR Auto timer capability which presumably has a 1-2 second delay upon activation, so why would using a light sensor instead of the auto timer cause a different critical issue?
2. Why doesn't the auto timer for HDR also apply to parking mode?
3. Does Vueroid use thermal paste for heat transfer? I ask because thermal paste eventually degrades as others have pointed out.

 

[qusejr2]

1. I don't understand the last comment. The S1 has HDR Auto timer capability which presumably has a 1-2 second delay upon activation, so why would using a light sensor instead of the auto timer cause a different critical issue?

=> HDR timer work only twice per day.. In case of light sensor I expect the swtiching will be happen more often(tunnel, rain..etc). to get more clear image , can loose the footage at all for a while

2. Why doesn't the auto timer for HDR also apply to parking mode?

we will consider this point .

3. Does Vueroid use thermal paste for heat transfer? I ask because thermal paste eventually degrades as others have pointed out.

I can't agree with your opinion. eventually degrades ? why ?
vueroid using thermal pad and die-cast heat sink designed by our company which fit S1 4K. the die-cast heat sink is metal.

 

[Hack_man]

Hack_man said:
3. Does Vueroid use thermal paste for heat transfer? I ask because thermal paste eventually degrades as others have pointed out.

I can't agree with your opinion. eventually degrades ? why ?
vueroid using thermal pad and die-cast heat sink designed by our company which fit S1 4K. the die-cast heat sink is metal.

Please reference the following Purdue University Research Publication

In Summary: Degradation of thermal grease is a well known phenomenon with a long documented history. Failure mechanisms include pump-out (movement of thermal grease) over repeated thermal cycles and dry-out (separation of polymer matrix and changes in the thermal grease microstructure), both cause an increase in junction temperature.

The article gets pretty technical, but pay attention to Fig 10 (a) normalized area, (b) void fractions, and (c) area normalized thermal resistance as a function of days of thermal cycling. This documents degradations of two different thermal compounds: DOWSIL-5622 (showed little degradation), DOWSIL-340 (displayed measurable degradation).

 

[GPak]

HDR switching : during switching mode, we have to stop recording 1~2 seconds. it cause some critical issue. we are afraid it.

=> HDR timer work only twice per day.. In case of light sensor I expect the swtiching will be happen more often(tunnel, rain..etc). to get more clear image , can loose the footage at all for a while

@qusejr2, I really appreciate your answers, thank you for that.

I'm just curious:
If HDR switching works reliably twice a day, what makes it that much less reliable when switching, say, 4 or 6 times a day?
Why should the camera, and I quote, "lose a footage at all for a while"?
A recording pause of about 2 seconds to enable or disable HDR is not a big deal.

I think the key to success is proper implementation.
Here are some suggestions that may help to make auto-HDR reality:

- The HDR function doesn't necessarily have to be switched on/off instantly.
- Use a time delay so that when the light sensor is triggered, a countdown to HDR switching starts, for example, ±90 seconds, and if the lighting conditions remain the same during these 90 seconds, the HDR will switch.
- The camera can also wait until a video clip of 1, 2, or 3 minutes is finished before switching, if that helps.
- Use two light sensors so that the countdown for HDR switching starts when both sensors detect the switching lighting conditions.

This will eliminate most cases with tunnels and other short-term changes in lighting.
At a speed of 40 miles per hour, the car travels 1 mile, in the metric system, this is 64 km/h and 1.6 km respectively.
And in most cases, tunnels are usually one-way and illuminated.

P.S.
The current implementation of HDR is very annoying, and I'm pretty sure that most people simply set and forget about it, completely ignoring seasonal changes in daylight.
And professional installers advise using HDR at all times, and this is the right approach to avoid unnecessary headaches with most customers.

 

[GPak]

This is deal killer for me.
- And do you think it would be worth considering supporting remotely connected recording media, perhaps string with a microSD card with an extension cable?
=>I don't think about it because I expect it will be very difficult to secure reliability.

You'll never know until you try.
This feature is already implemented in competing camera, and yes, it's not working with some SSD drives, but it works for me with a MicroSD card.

 

[qusejr2]

Please reference the following Purdue University Research Publication

In Summary: Degradation of thermal grease is a well known phenomenon with a long documented history. Failure mechanisms include pump-out (movement of thermal grease) over repeated thermal cycles and dry-out (separation of polymer matrix and changes in the thermal grease microstructure), both cause an increase in junction temperature.

Vueroid not using thermal grease. we are using thermal pad and die cast heatsink. the material is different, but I can't say exactly there is no degrade at all. most of case heat cause error during parking mode. during parking mode Vueroid monitor the temperature, if the heatsink and thermal pad is degraded , we may expect that the S1 will be reached the limited temperature more shortime, and turns off. I may guess the difference is not so big.

 

[qusejr2]

You'll never know until you try.
This feature is already implemented in competing camera, and yes, it's not working with some SSD drives, but it works for me with a MicroSD card.

Ok .. I see. but we will not try it. even using SD socket , We have experienced many reliability issues over the years.
And until now , there is no strong request from market.

 

[kamkar]

low-bitrate (LBR) parking mode

My favorite mode, but i do not feel it is useable for the people that would like longer duration mode, but for me preferably using a timer with 3 hours on it, and i am good.

Degradation of thermal grease

This is indeed a factor, also for the many thermal pads you can get these days, some of them actually pretty damn cool, well at least for old people such as myself that remember them going back decades.

I have just dismantled my old Threadripper PC, which back then 6 years or so ago was mounted with liquid metal, and even worse i had never replaced that, and i cant say i have experienced any thermal throttling ASO with it, but must also admit that my use is / was way under what a 12 core CPU would give me.
No plans for going liquid again on the thermal compound, it is some nasty stuff.
General cooling i am as usual over killing, have dual 280 mm radiators cooling a tiny little 8 core CPU.

Just look at what it have done to my poor CPU and massive 1 Kilo heavy Heatkiller IV head.

 

[kamkar]

no strong request from market.

TBH i would prefer a Nvme drive with a tray so it just slide into the main unit, but of course this also mean remote main unit, the external drive like Viofo now do i guess is OK for the traditional format.
Parried with a Frore systems cooler or two, kick ass active cooling, though of course this might impair parking guard, or at least parking guard power use if they have to run, though i don't think that is actually needed under normal circumstances.

 

[Hack_man]

My favorite mode, but i do not feel it is useable for the people that would like longer duration mode, but for me preferably using a timer with 3 hours on it, and i am good.


This is indeed a factor, also for the many thermal pads you can get these days, some of them actually pretty damn cool, well at least for old people such as myself that remember them going back decades.

I have just dismantled my old Threadripper PC, which back then 6 years or so ago was mounted with liquid metal, and even worse i had never replaced that, and i cant say i have experienced any thermal throttling ASO with it, but must also admit that my use is / was way under what a 12 core CPU would give me.
No plans for going liquid again on the thermal compound, it is some nasty stuff.
General cooling i am as usual over killing, have dual 280 mm radiators cooling a tiny little 8 core CPU.

Just look at what it have done to my poor CPU and massive 1 Kilo heavy Heatkiller IV head.

View attachment 88579
View attachment 88580

Wow look at that hunk of copper! it wouldn't surprise me if the thermal compounds of the past could run rings around what's typically available today. It was probably nasty stuff you'd not want to touch. I remember the good old days of Beryllium Oxide (BeO), but it was banned years ago. It had amazing thermal properties but was really nasty if it got damaged or broken into pieces (cancer and berylliosis).

 

[TonyM]

- The HDR function doesn't necessarily have to be switched on/off instantly.
- Use a time delay so that when the light sensor is triggered, a countdown to HDR switching starts, for example, ±90 seconds, and if the lighting conditions remain the same during these 90 seconds, the HDR will switch.

This will eliminate most cases with tunnels and other short-term changes in lighting.

The problem with waiting 60s or 90s or whatever before switching is that there will be other users who expect auto HDR to switch instantly. They will want HDR to turn on in the tunnel or underground car park, just like their auto headlights turn on in these situations.

 

[lufa6977]

The problem with waiting 60s or 90s or whatever before switching is that there will be other users who expect auto HDR to switch instantly. They will want HDR to turn on in the tunnel or underground car park, just like their auto headlights turn on in these situations.

Precisely. Moving from a shady area to a sunny location, tunnels, back of buildings, where there may be no sun...whatever the case. Stopped at a traffic light, a large lorry or semi-truck is to your right, the sun is to your right, your car is in shadow, and now HDR goes into a timer mode or even enables. Imagine the complaints people would make when they notice subtle, numerous differences in image lighting in a video.

 

[GPak]

The problem with waiting 60s or 90s or whatever before switching is that there will be other users who expect auto HDR to switch instantly. They will want HDR to turn on in the tunnel or underground car park, just like their auto headlights turn on in these situations.

This is an easily solvable "problem"; it's simply a matter of adding selectable delay option, so that some users can opt out of the delay.
This has already been implemented in Viofo cameras, where you can set a 90 sec delay before camera switches to parking mode.
In the current implementation, the HDR function is not available in tunnels and dark garages at all, unless it is permanently enabled.
(For clarity, this refers to daytime hours.)

Precisely. Moving from a shady area to a sunny location, tunnels, back of buildings, where there may be no sun...whatever the case. Stopped at a traffic light, a large lorry or semi-truck is to your right, the sun is to your right, your car is in shadow, and now HDR goes into a timer mode or even enables. Imagine the complaints people would make when they notice subtle, numerous differences in image lighting in a video.

Come on, @lufa6977 , don't be so picky 🙂
Usually auto-headlights don't react to shadows, the backs of buildings, semi-trucks, etc.
It has to be dark enough for them to turn on, and auto-HDR should work in a similar way.