Public-key Cryptography - An Idea For a More Sophisticated Dash Camera

How is it that encryption is not a commonplace feature by now? Is it really that hard to implement? I don't expect it to be cheap, but I will not purchase a dashcam that doesn't encrypt the data on the fly.
 
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I have read through most of this thread and can understand the thought process, but I would interject that the processor chips themselves have built in hardware encode/decode procedures for video. For example, if you look at video card inside of many home computers, they have hardware acceleration for h.264 encode/decode. This just accelerates that function, but is totally useless to say encode/decode in h.265 that is also a hardware video encoding standard. Until the market demands that encryption is manditory before people will purchase the device, there is little to no reason to add in new hardware into the processing chip to make it happen.
 
The current chips don't have the bandwidth for the additional encoding and functions that would be needed and they would run even hotter than they already do now.

I've noticed over my last two years as a member here that newer members often come up with wild fantasies about capabilities they would like their dash cams to have that are either entirely impractical and/or would make for a dash cam that most people couldn't afford or wouldn't buy. Sometimes I think we need a new sub forum for "Fantasy Dash Cams". In this case, imagining "a scenario where video recorded by your camera is confiscated and used against you" seems unlikely to me. I don't believe there has ever been a single report of such an occurrence even vaguely like that here on DCT. I believe such practice where video is confiscated would result in a court battle, at least here in the US where we still have a 5th amendment last I checked. There are really no tested laws along these lines on personal sousveillance as yet. The longer I've used dash cams, the longer I find the KISS principle (keep it simple, etc) to be the most practical and reliable. All the bells and whistles become superfluous with good video, audio and rock solid reliability becoming the primary goals. It is for this reason that I still keep coming back to the Mobius as my favorite camera.
The 5th amendment explicitly permits courts to issue warrants to seize evidence of a crime upon probable cause. YOU can not be compelled to testify against yourself. But your possessions certainly can be, if a judge believes there is probable cause that said possessions contain record of a crime. If you run someone over with your car and the ambulance crew notices you have a dash cam, I guarantee your car's getting impounded and the cops will ask for and receive a warrant pronto.

The purpose of this feature, and a large part of any computer's full disk encryption, is to defy warrants.

Using public/private key crypto for this is NOT pie in the sky wishful thinking, it is an absolute requirement. And "password-protected storage" isn't enough. If the dash cam is capable of playing back on its own screen, then it's not meaningfully encrypted.

I will offer, that pub/priv crypto is much slower than symetric, so the better way to implement this is to use seperate files for each minute with random symetric keys, and then journal those keys to a text file using pub/priv crypto and erase from memory after each minute has passed. To survive catastrophic failure, the symetric keys should be generated in batch several minutes beforehand, and sync'd to storage after the pub/prib encryption. Then they stay in ram until used. Design the hardware so that disconnecting power causes a reboot. Not even three letter agencies are going to be able to hack it in less than 60 seconds after pulling you out of the car. Wanna make it even better, figure out how to reboot it any time a door is opened.

And it's not just about the dash cam owner getting away with reckless driving. I've spent hours talking with attornies in my car. I've spoken highly sensitive passwords and information. I've discussed posessions of extraordinary value with trusted passengers. I'm not some flippant millenial happy to use uber and not own a car. My car is a secured space the integrity of which I depend on. If some dumb dash cam recorded that and some crackhead could just break a window and walk off with that information, lives could very realistically be lost over it.

And about "new users" coming in all the time and bringing this up... I'll mention, because I am one such new user.... I came here because it's the most obvious group of knowledgable dashcam users and makers. I didn't see the feature I require listed on the front of any product on amazon. So I came here for recommendations. I rather don't care if it's expensive. It has to be secure. And it can't be substantially larger on the window glass, but I WOULD tolerate if the cameras were all wired back to a computer module that I could put in or behind the glovebox in the dash area of the car. The less visible the cameras themselves are, the better in my mind since I don't want to attrack crackheads to break in and steal the damn cameras.
 
If you really would like to keep videos to yourself then the solution is very simple:

1. Use custom flash drive formatting (not FAT32, obviously). It is quite easy to make a completely custom format or if not bothered with that, just use raw flash sector reads/writes. If anything, the raw access will make dash cam software run faster as only limited amount of middleware will be needed.
2. On camera, add "set password" feature.
3. When dumping data stream to flash, record password in the file/sector header.
4. Create custom PC application for data retrieval. This application must be able to collect password from user.
5. When data stream is requested by PC, camera firmware shall request password first and if it doesn't match the one in file/sector header, refuse.
6. PC app shall clear header from password and produce playable video file (basically, just use container; AVI, MP4 or whatever needed).

This way no extra workload is required on camera micro.

Note that this approach will only withstand soft attacks. Anyone knowledgeable enough or with access to right information could hack this. But as a basic deterrent it'll work fairly well.
FATAL FLAW: Who's computer is this PC software running on? The bad guy's. So why on earth would the bad guy not hexedit the software to skip the password check. It's not hard. I have personally done hexediting twice before to unlock software. its a weekend project at most.

If the data EXISTS AT ALL unencrypted, the game is over.
 
The 5th amendment explicitly permits courts to issue warrants to seize evidence of a crime upon probable cause. YOU can not be compelled to testify against yourself. But your possessions certainly can be, if a judge believes there is probable cause that said possessions contain record of a crime. If you run someone over with your car and the ambulance crew notices you have a dash cam, I guarantee your car's getting impounded and the cops will ask for and receive a warrant pronto.

The purpose of this feature, and a large part of any computer's full disk encryption, is to defy warrants.

Using public/private key crypto for this is NOT pie in the sky wishful thinking, it is an absolute requirement. And "password-protected storage" isn't enough. If the dash cam is capable of playing back on its own screen, then it's not meaningfully encrypted.

I will offer, that pub/priv crypto is much slower than symetric, so the better way to implement this is to use seperate files for each minute with random symetric keys, and then journal those keys to a text file using pub/priv crypto and erase from memory after each minute has passed. To survive catastrophic failure, the symetric keys should be generated in batch several minutes beforehand, and sync'd to storage after the pub/prib encryption. Then they stay in ram until used. Design the hardware so that disconnecting power causes a reboot. Not even three letter agencies are going to be able to hack it in less than 60 seconds after pulling you out of the car. Wanna make it even better, figure out how to reboot it any time a door is opened.

And it's not just about the dash cam owner getting away with reckless driving. I've spent hours talking with attornies in my car. I've spoken highly sensitive passwords and information. I've discussed posessions of extraordinary value with trusted passengers. I'm not some flippant millenial happy to use uber and not own a car. My car is a secured space the integrity of which I depend on. If some dumb dash cam recorded that and some crackhead could just break a window and walk off with that information, lives could very realistically be lost over it.

And about "new users" coming in all the time and bringing this up... I'll mention, because I am one such new user.... I came here because it's the most obvious group of knowledgable dashcam users and makers. I didn't see the feature I require listed on the front of any product on amazon. So I came here for recommendations. I rather don't care if it's expensive. It has to be secure. And it can't be substantially larger on the window glass, but I WOULD tolerate if the cameras were all wired back to a computer module that I could put in or behind the glovebox in the dash area of the car. The less visible the cameras themselves are, the better in my mind since I don't want to attrack crackheads to break in and steal the damn cameras.

Always amusing when new members like you sign up to DCT and immediately engage in strident, essentially out of context arguments over posts made by members 9 years ago. :rolleyes:
 
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Always amusing when new members like you sign up to DCT and immediately engage in strident, essentially out of context arguments over posts made by members 9 years ago. :rolleyes:
I will admit I had to google strident, but I don't mind wearing that adjective.

[Citation_Needed] What exactly was out of context? The original message was calling for encryption. seconded multiple times by others over the decade before me. I took the time to point out a hybrid symmetric pub/priv solution. It's disappointing 9 years have gone by with no manufacturer addressing this need. It's not just about police. It's about privacy in your own vehicle if the only thing holding your dashcam in there is a suction cup!

Fortunately today, hardware chips DO implement AES and probably also some implement RSA (for Pub/Priv). And everything is a decade faster and more efficient anyway. So @viofo what say you? Could you use someone to work on designing this?

The few times I have recorded driving I had to use an encrypted android phone, and it was not great. They're just not meant for continuous recording. and they're too big. VIOFO already seems like the leading brand. Time to put all other brands completely out of business! What do you say?
 
Here we are actually running a Power hub,,,,,, okay just a test computer in that power hub, but using quantum encryption, meaning even with the most bad ass computer, breaking that encryption will be hard.
but of course that is not something you can deploy in a little plastic box on your windscreen.

Quantum encrypted video chat, so even the Americans with card blanc access to the Danish internet ( for unknown reasons ) was not listening in here.

 
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I will admit I had to google strident, but I don't mind wearing that adjective.

Sorry you had to look up the word strident which most people learn in junior high school. Not surprised at all to hear that you would embrace the appellation.

Strident
adj.
1. Loud, harsh, grating, or shrill:

2. Forcefully assertive or severely critical:

So far, since becoming a new DCT member earlier today all of your posts have basically been adversarial and captious sounding in one way or another with a distinct chip on your shoulder towards long time members, while another one of your posts demands software and impractical dash cam technology that does not exist and likely never will.

I really have no interest in engaging with you any further. Good luck here on the forum for however long you may last.
 
Sorry you had to look up a word strident which most people learn in junior high school. Not surprised to hear that you would embrace the appellation.

Strident
adj.
1. Loud, harsh, grating, or shrill:

2. Forcefully assertive or severely critical:

So far, since becoming a new DCT member earlier today all of your posts have basically been adversarial and captious sounding with a distinct chip on your shoulder towards long time members, while another one of your posts demands software and impractical dash cam technology that does not exist and likely never will.

I really have no interest in engaging with you any further. Good luck here on the forum for however long you may last.

Nothing to be sorry about. I love learning eccentric new words.

You never had to reply, by the way. This thread waited ten years for me to find it. And whoever wants to put work into a more secure dash cam may find it in another ten and reply to me here. Here's hoping for sooner!

I'd also love if there was a way to use video from the cameras that are already built into so many cars. My Ford Fusion has high-enough res forward looking cameras to read traffic signs at speed. Surely there's some way to read that signal with enough hardware hacking and I bet the boards used in those systems are shared between brands to an extent.
 
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"eccentric" ? "copy and paste"? :LOL:

Surely there's some way to read that signal with enough hardware hacking and I bet the boards used in those systems are shared between brands to an extent.

No.

Read the signal?, maybe. Record usable, actionable dash cam footage to media, again no.
 
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Personally I’d love this capability, especially to ensure no one like a thief could grab your dashcam and see where you live, hear private conversations, etc. I’d be cool with it as an option to use if desired, even if it makes the dashcam a little bigger. Putting it into something like a DR970X Box allows us to get away with physically larger hardware if need be, plus those have extra security safeguards for the cameras, cables, and memory card so it’d be a natural fit.

I have no idea what kind of hardware and additional realtime processing would be required, but given that this conversation started nearly a decade ago, I’m sure the tech is way better nowadays.
 
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