Recording of the wreck I was in with my Viofo A129 Pro Duo.

[Nigel]

Speed cameras and traffic enforcement do indeed save lives Nigel, but you are still missing the point about the significant dangers to a modern democratic society when a government subjects its citizens to ubiquitous, intrusive, mufti-layered mass surveillance and data collection.

"dash cam footage submissions to the police are leading to as many as 90,000 motoring convictions, prosecutions, or warnings per year."

"The most captured driving offence by dash came users was motorists on their mobile or electronic devices, which carries a minimum of six points on your licence and a £200 fine."

If you are in public then you are being surveilled anyway, the cameras simply make the prosecutions much easier, it means that people do actually get prosecuted for their law breaking instead of getting away with it and then maybe killing someone the next time.

I'm not sure what you think our government is doing with our dashcam surveillance footage, we have data protection laws in place that mean our government does not have access to our dashcam footage, or the police camera footage, unless we or the police decide to make it public, as we/they sometimes do, which is normally done in compliance with the appropriate laws.

when a government subjects its citizens to ubiquitous, intrusive, mufti-layered mass surveillance and data collection.

"31% of British motorists currently own a dash cam, "
"75% think these trusty gadgets should be used by every driver "
"24% hold the opinion that dash cams should be a compulsory part of driving in the UK."

I believe the police dashcam video submission system has been implemented on request/demand of the public, assisted by our government implementing a national dashcam forensics unit and providing funds for our police forces to implement submission systems for us. It was not the government that subjected us to it, many of our police forces have resisted its implementation, but ended up implementing it anyway due to public demand. The current surveillance system in the UK is backed by the public, we would change it if we didn't like it, the British public can and do force our government to do things, our current gun laws are a good example, implemented and modified due to public demand, Brexit is another example - not supported by any significant government parties, but forced through by the public, although not all agreed, only the majority! Our government serves the people, not the other way around, or however you describe what your government is doing, or not doing at the moment!

(Quotes from a survey published last month)

 

[Dashmellow]

"dash cam footage submissions to the police are leading to as many as 90,000 motoring convictions, prosecutions, or warnings per year."

"The most captured driving offence by dash came users was motorists on their mobile or electronic devices, which carries a minimum of six points on your licence and a £200 fine."

If you are in public then you are being surveilled anyway, the cameras simply make the prosecutions much easier, it means that people do actually get prosecuted for their law breaking instead of getting away with it and then maybe killing someone the next time.

I'm not sure what you think our government is doing with our dashcam surveillance footage, we have data protection laws in place that mean our government does not have access to our dashcam footage, or the police camera footage, unless we or the police decide to make it public, as we/they sometimes do, which is normally done in compliance with the appropriate laws.


"31% of British motorists currently own a dash cam, "
"75% think these trusty gadgets should be used by every driver "
"24% hold the opinion that dash cams should be a compulsory part of driving in the UK."

I believe the police dashcam video submission system has been implemented on request/demand of the public, assisted by our government implementing a national dashcam forensics unit and providing funds for our police forces to implement submission systems for us. It was not the government that subjected us to it, many of our police forces have resisted its implementation, but ended up implementing it anyway due to public demand. The current surveillance system in the UK is backed by the public, we would change it if we didn't like it, the British public can and do force our government to do things, our current gun laws are a good example, implemented and modified due to public demand, Brexit is another example - not supported by any significant government parties, but forced through by the public, although not all agreed, only the majority! Our government serves the people, not the other way around, or however you describe what your government is doing, or not doing at the moment!

(Quotes from a survey published last month)

It's almost becoming comical how many times I have to comment on your style of debating as you are chronically in the habit of radically changing the subject whenever you don't have a legitimate counterargument. So now, here you are going into a lengthy monologue about British motorists currently owning dash cams when I never once mentioned dash cams in my posts that you are replying to. Earlier, you did the same thing by focusing exclusively on road deaths instead of addressing my primary arguments and concerns about the risks to a free society about the dangers of pervasive, multi-layered mass surveillance, including widespread use of many tens of thousands of CCTV cameras, facial recognition cams, automated license plate recordings, traffic camera systems, speed cams, detailed monitoring of citizens emails, internet traffic and searches, financial and investment transactions, on and offline purchases and many other personal and private matters and activities. It matters little whether the government publicly revels the information they collect about you because you won't know what is being done with it, where it ends up and how it may obe day effect you. All citizens are now potential "suspects" rather than private individuals !

And just to remind you, this conversation began with your posting about the "Long Ranger mobile speed cameras" you find so appealing that can observe individuals from a kilometer away, and the 17 other camera systems that monitor British roadways but now you don't even mention traffic monitoring cameras. Instead you focus on dash cams used by individual motorists which again I will retiterate was never mentioned and the recordings these individuals with dash cams may voluntarily choose to submit footage to the authorities which is a different subject entirely from ubiquitous government surveillance of their own people which as in the case of the UK is more intrusive and prevalent than any other westernized nation in the world and the only one outside of authoritarian governments such as the People's Republic of China.

Nevertheless, there is an interesting and undeniable parallel between the UK government encouraging its citizens to submit incriminating dash camera evidence to the authorities and the practices of autocratic and authoritarian nations.

The interesting parallel and concern I have as far as the UK government urging it's citizens to turn in fellow citizens to the authorities, especially as it relates to the strong trend of extreme surveillance montioring of the population via CCTV camersa and all the rest of it in the UK is the history and inspiration of where this concept comes from.

Dating back to at least the 1940's when the German government pressured citizens to turn in their neighbors to the Gestapo for various infractions only to see them shipped off to prisons and concentration camps and to later years where the practice of turning in your neighbors to the police was intensified to the extreme by the East German Stasi, the concept of having citizens turn in their fellow motorists for traffic violations is virtually the same thing, albeit on a seemingly more benign level.

The danger is what these seemingy useful and allegedly benefitial surveiilance and reporting practices may lead to in future years that seem impossible today. Indeed, if 20 years ago one were to predict that the UK would oneday become the third most pervasive surveiilance state in the entire world, no one would have believed you.

Finally, while the practice of turning in fellow citizens captured on dash cams to the police for alleged infractions may seem like you may be preventing motorists from speeding and otherwise engaging in poor driving habits, as you point out and as I suspect, it really seems more about generating maximum revenue for the government in the form of penalties and fines.