SJ7 V1.19 Firmware - Adds 4k Rotation - Report Thread

Nathyn Masters

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The professional features like a flat color profile i am not so sure, okay it sound like a easy thing to implement in the firmware, but having seen what i have i am not so sure.
I think the focus are on the general users, and they are just shooting from the hip and throwing everything on the web, and its most likely the same that cant even figure out to work their phone camera properly.
I disagree. The general user buys a $50 action camera. M20 and SJ6 would be fine for the general user, as would the majority of $50 - $70 action cameras. SJCam was very clear about what they were trying to do. The trick is this, offer the things that make people sit up and take notice. The reason people buy GoPros is because they can get great quality footage and use it for professional use. The SJ7 Star is clearly going for that market. I personally love the camera, but have to choose between the SJ6/ SJ5000x for 24p but interpolated 4K or real 4K with no 24p. Not even sure why they would have all the pro features and 24p be an afterthought. And why would companies have to throw stuff at the wall at this point as they know the features people want.

Most users don't care about most of the features. As long as they can shoot their bit of Now! video, life is good. Fretting about ISO, EV, white balance, and even firmware changes isn't important in their world. There's a markets for dash cams, so that's supported. Some people want a surveillance camera, so that's supported. Stills? It's in there. And on and on. And soon, there's the 500 lb. Swiss Army knife.
EXACTLY! If you're going for the basic market, make a basic camera. BUT if you're going for a high end market, then knock it out the park. Clearly the SJ7 Star was to be SJCam's Hero 5 Black, undercutting GoPro by more than $200. The 24p at 4K and lack of flat color profile keep it from being that. And this is at a time when a $100 camera has f-log. The SJ7 Star has everything else. In fact they could just add "low contrast" in the color settings considering they already have WDR mode. So turning on low contrast and WDR would have the same effect as a log mode. Any other flaws can be tweaked as needed. Also, I figured out that the 24p a 2880 x 2160 is not 4K. It's interpolated. Why is there interpolated 4K 24p in a native 4K camera. What's happening?

-Nate
 

Nathyn Masters

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Nice as the "pick and chose" option would be, I can't see that happening in cameras. And I can see it raising, not lowering prices. Getting the firmware to deal with a changeable feature environment adds to the cost. And that has to be amortized over the entire product - at the least. The easiest solution is to ignore what you don't use. Or wonder why something like adding the SJCam watermark option even exists in the feature menu. [/head scratching]
LOL. The SJCam Logo is for reviewers and testers. When showing off footage it's tagged with the logo especially when doing comparisons, so that's branding thing. I use it all the time, but yes, I do question a lot of the choices action camera manufacturers make. And at this point this kind of thing is getting cheaper in price. Here's a thing, 25p superview. Why is superview always 25p? o_O If 25p were simply 16:9 it would be fine. It's a frame off from 24p and would be almost unnoticeable in a 24p timeline.

About EIS, I think I've been clear that lack of a working EIS is deal-breaker or close to it. "The image is everything" - a bouncing image, unless specifically looked for, is a bad image. Look at my earlier videos, shot with a Sena Prism. The EIS is minimal and the video suffers for it. OTOH, if the idea is to convey the idea of a hand carried camera to make something seem "this is as real as it gets", well fine, no EIS is the way to go.
I actually found the EIS much better than before, none of that jittery business in 1080p. I haven't tested it at night though, but I am looking forward to the Gimbal.

-Nate
 

kamkar1

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Yes the gopros seem to have been the go to little camera in broadcasting for a while now, if its cuz they are the best,, period, or just able to give the best deal i am not sure.
Okay i have also seen contour or what every they are called make a appearance once in a while.

But i have never met a gopro user that use the camera in something resembling a professional way, and judging from what i see from youtube users, then its often just whip the camera out and jump off the cliff.
And that's including my own footage, i dont get that a single person subscribe to my youtube channel when it truth whats there are often just "BS" i want to share with my friend.

What ever i am all for getting the max out of my camera money when it come to the images, even if that's also image options i would not use, the things you want i would never use, i would just do some 1080X1920 resolution or something at the same 16:9 ratio, and only the FPS i would mess with, would love to have 1080p/240 on the Sj8pro, and then generally i use 1080p-60 FPS
 

Nathyn Masters

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Yes the gopros seem to have been the go to little camera in broadcasting for a while now, if its cuz they are the best,, period, or just able to give the best deal i am not sure./QUOTE]

They can be matched up to your other footage because of the "Pro" features. I don't know if it was always like that, but it definitely is now.

What ever i am all for getting the max out of my camera money when it come to the images, even if that's also image options i would not use, the things you want i would never use, i would just do some 1080X1920 resolution or something at the same 16:9 ratio, and only the FPS i would mess with, would love to have 1080p/240 on the Sj8pro, and then generally i use 1080p-60 FPS
In the indie filmmaking community there's a lot of people who would buy an SJCam that shoots true 4K/24p over a GoPro, just based on price to quality ratio alone. In fact they may buy two because of the price. Also the GoPro 5 and 6 designs looks great. But if the SJ8 looks like the images I've been seeing, that's going to be a great looking camera as well. To date, in my opinion, the SJ6 and M20 are the best looking cameras they've made (the SJ360+ is cool looking too). To filmmakers all that kind of stuff does matter. And there's a lot of us now and we all find out about this stuff on Youtube. I shot a short film with an action camera and I've been incorporating them into my films. I shoot everything at 4K now and cut it on a 1080/24p timeline. The quality is noticeably better. 4K/30p creates a weird strobe/jerky effect when put on 24p timeline if I don't slow it done. Sometimes it's not noticeable, sometimes it is. Ironically the interpolated 4K/24p from the SJ5000x looks great in the right circumstances, but at night the SJ7, with it's f2.0 lens, is just killin' it. The GoPro Hero Black's lens is only 2.8. Again, this is what I mean. the SJ7 Star could be the GoPro killer! But it's missing two features that would make it more feasible for the people it's aimed at.

-Nate
 

kamkar1

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I am looking forward to little cameras with no protruding lens, also i see now that phones will soon have some degree of adjustable aperture on their little lenses :cool:
 

Nathyn Masters

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I am looking forward to little cameras with no protruding lens, also i see now that phones will soon have some degree of adjustable aperture on their little lenses :cool:
I'd like that too. I'd like one about the size of the SJ6 or the SJDash.

-Nate
 

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There's a lot to be said for brand recognition. How many cameras on the market look like a GoPro but can't shoot anything to speak of and last about as long as snow in July? So the thinking goes "When in doubt, buy a GoPro." Sure, the buyer pays far too much for those five letters, but they go away thinking they bought something better than those never-heard-that-name cameras. We know there's a good alternative they're passing up. Silly them, but there it is.

I can think of a compelling argument for protruding lenses - filters and shades. Kinda hard to reliably fit anything over a flat-to-the-case lens. I have an old Fuji DSLR wanna-be that I want very much to hang a sun shade on. The lens retreats fully into the case - no shade action happening there.
 
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Please look CAREFULLY at the lens of your SJ7 when the camera is inside your dive case. I haven't checked it myself but I've heard somewhere over the internet forums that the lens could TOUCH the case. If it's true, then it could be the reason of your "blurry spot" in the frame.
 

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It's certainly a possibility.

I have thought about the whole business of smudges and the image defects. The most common smudge is fingerprint smudges and they tend to be, relative to the size of the lens or the lens port, fairly large. The "fuzzy zone", however, takes up a relatively small portion of the image. Yesterday I shot eight clips to compare images - four with V1.15, with the frame and EIS on and off and with the case and EIS on and off. I then shot four with V1.20, four with the frame and EIS on and off , and with the case and EIS on and off. Of course I checked that the lens and port were clean.

The V1.15 clips in the frame and the clip in the case with EIS on, show the fuzzy zone. On the clip with the EIS, the fuzzy zone isn't there and isn't for any of the V1.20 clips. Where does that leave things?

V1.20 is absolved of being the only place the fuzzy shows up - it's not the firmware. The fuzzy zone is present in the frame mount with a clean lens. It's not the case. What else is happening?

The camera was relatively cool at the start and warmed up during the shooting. But it didn't get to "too hot to handle" or even "wow, why is this so hot". I should have used the gun, but qualitatively I'd call the camera merely warm. Does that mean a cool camera has problems? I don't think so.

The motorcycle demo started with about 15 minutes of shooting with V1.20 and the camera in the case. In free air the camera hits 130-135F in about 25 minutes. I'd call that a hot camera. And the fuzzy zone is present in both runs. In the V1.15 run, the camera picks up with much of the heat generated by shooting with V1,20 and then adds its heat (in free air it hit 125-130F), but the fuzzy zone isn't there.

At this point, I can't find a pattern to when the fuzzy zone does and doesn't show up. But when it's there, it's obvious it's there.

EIS doesn't seem to be involved in the problem. I moved the tripod around to simulate bumps. There was no obvious sign EIS was or wasn't working under both V1.15 and V1.20.

I'll try shooting more video with the two firmware revs to see what happens. I've got an appointment that will give about 20-25 minutes of shooting going and coming back. We'll see what happens...

ADDED: V1.20 is the current rev. I'll stick with that for testing. I still have doubts about how well EIS 2.0 is working. The riding should answer the question one way or another.
 
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TonyCams

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Has anyone else found FOV adjustment is not available in the Android WiFi menu? Every other cam parameter is represented in the menu for my Star.
Okay, thanks for confirming. Checking into this now :)
 

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Having been involved with other cameras development and early testing, i was amazed to see that fixing some problems in firmware would make other pop up, and this could easy be things not really related to what ever was fixed.
So firmware development are not as easy as i thought it was it seem.

The professional features like a flat color profile i am not so sure, okay it sound like a easy thing to implement in the firmware, but having seen what i have i am not so sure.

I think the focus are on the general users, and they are just shooting from the hip and throwing everything on the web, and its most likely the same that cant even figure out to work their phone camera properly.
And sadly those people just ruin everything for us sane people, but they are the wast majority so it make sense to cater to them.
Yi does the flat color profile better than Gopro in the Yi 4k+
 

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FYI: See Nick's youtube video at iphonedo.com, a comparison of Hero's 5 ,6, Yi 4k+,Sony's fdr x 3000, and Iphonex. In the segment on flat color Yi excells.
Also in the yellow flower contrast views Hero 5 is better than 6, and Yi beats them both!
In my opinion ,of course!
 
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TonyCams

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FYI: See Nick's youtube video at iphonedo.com, a comparison of Hero's 5 ,6, Yi 4k+,Sony's fdr x 3000, and Iphonex. In the segment on flat color Yi excells.
Also in the yellow flower contrast views Hero 5 is better than 6, and Yi beats them both!
In my opinion ,of course!
Do you have a direct contact to Nick? I have been trying to contact him...
 
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TonyCams

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In the indie filmmaking community there's a lot of people who would buy an SJCam that shoots true 4K/24p over a GoPro, just based on price to quality ratio alone. In fact they may buy two because of the price. Also the GoPro 5 and 6 designs looks great. But if the SJ8 looks like the images I've been seeing, that's going to be a great looking camera as well. To date, in my opinion, the SJ6 and M20 are the best looking cameras they've made (the SJ360+ is cool looking too). To filmmakers all that kind of stuff does matter. And there's a lot of us now and we all find out about this stuff on Youtube. I shot a short film with an action camera and I've been incorporating them into my films. I shoot everything at 4K now and cut it on a 1080/24p timeline. The quality is noticeably better. 4K/30p creates a weird strobe/jerky effect when put on 24p timeline if I don't slow it done. Sometimes it's not noticeable, sometimes it is. Ironically the interpolated 4K/24p from the SJ5000x looks great in the right circumstances, but at night the SJ7, with it's f2.0 lens, is just killin' it. The GoPro Hero Black's lens is only 2.8. Again, this is what I mean. the SJ7 Star could be the GoPro killer! But it's missing two features that would make it more feasible for the people it's aimed at.

-Nate
Well stated. Will try to get to the proper 24p added.
 

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