SJCAM Does NOT Honor Warranties!

Nigel

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If the retailer doesn't agree with you that the defect was there at the time of purchase, how do you sort that out? For example, if a product has given you 5 years and 11 months of reliable service but then stops working, how does the consumer prove the defect was there all along?
Use common sense, if you are sure then take the matter to the small claims court and you will likely win, no need for lawyers. You can of course get an expert to investigate and produce a report but due to the cost you would normally only bother for something more expensive like a car. For the first 6 months there is an assumption that any fault that shows up was there at the time of purchase, no need to prove it.
 
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TeriTerryTarry

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the issue here really is B&H, they are importing and selling the product but only offering a 30 day return, they are the importer and make the profit on the sale of the goods, they should be covering warranty return costs, you must have no consumer protections there, no retailer here would be able to get away with not supporting a full warranty
It's the norm in the US for products sold by retailers to be warranted by manufacturers and to have the buyer deal with the manufacturer directly after a period of time, usually 30 days in the case of consumer electronics. Sometimes buyers can deal with the retailer directly in the case of "authorized dealers" though typically that only means the retailer acts as the intermediary between the buyer and the manufacturer. As I've seen in my own dealings with SJCam and B&H, the seller does not have the technical expertise to actually undertake repairs of thousands of products from hundreds of manufacturers. It falls upon manufacturers to stand behind their products.

This can be complicated in a number of ways. Laws governing retail sales and warranties vary among the 50 states. Within the US, interstate commerce is regulated by the Federal government but to be honest I don't know how this works at the online retail level. Some states offer much more substantial consumer protections and there are implied warranties of fitness and merchantability but I don't know how they work.

In this particular case based on the stated warranty of B&H, it falls to SJCam to honor the warranty after 30 days, and this is perfectly normal. kyoo has pointed out the pitfalls of buying SJCam products in the US from anybody but SJCam. Really he has pointed out the pitfalls of buying any products from SJCam since their warranty terms are onerous even if you bought the camera directly from them.
 

TeriTerryTarry

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If I buy an SJCAM from SJCAM in China then I guess I could use Hong Kong law, but I certainly would not expect UK law to apply to someone in another country! There are various international laws, but consumer rights are very poorly covered by any international laws or agreements despite various attempts to get something in place over recent years.
But surely if the buyer is in the UK, even if the seller is located outside the UK, you have some protections afforded to you by UK law, don't you? Hong Kong law doesn't extend into the UK.
 

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When SJCAM have no representation in your country then I think this system is going to be broken pretty much straight away, you're not dealing with manufacturers when you have problems, you're dealing with distributors that hold agency agreements for the brands they sell

SJCAM would have supplied the product to B&H with a warranty but that warranty stipulates that each side pays their own freight costs, this is a standard agreement for any China supplier to other countries, eg, B&H pays to freight back to China, SJCAM pays to freight the repair back to the USA, B&H are sneaking out of their responsibility on this one, regardless of what might be considered normal there
 

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...B&H are sneaking out of their responsibility on this one,...
I will have to disagree with you on that point. B&H is very up front about their 30 day policy after which it's between the buyer and manufacturer (other than items designated as 'IMP'). The camera was purchased in February so the 30 days has passed.

I've dealt with B&H for a number of years and have never had them try to avoid anything. I've returned items for no reason other than I decided I wanted something different with no issue. They have served as an intermediary between myself and manufacturers on a couple of occasions even though they were under no obligation to do so.

I was not kidding when I said in an different thread and post that B&H and S.G. were cut from the same cloth - at least based on my experiences with the 2 companies.
 

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I will have to disagree with you on that point. B&H is very up front about their 30 day policy after which it's between the buyer and manufacturer (other than items designated as 'IMP'). The camera was purchased in February so the 30 days has passed.
.
Are they upfront and advertise the fact that you need to talk to China post 30 days if you buy that product though?

As I said SJCAM would have sold the product to them with a 12 month warranty, that warranty doesn't extend directly to the consumer and is a return to base warranty at B&H's expense, B&H would be well aware of this but do they make the consumer aware of the limitation

I get that most products if they are going to fail they do so within that 30 day period so for the most part this won't come up, situations like this though highlight where their system doesn't work
 

TeriTerryTarry

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When SJCAM have no representation in your country then I think this system is going to be broken pretty much straight away, you're not dealing with manufacturers when you have problems, you're dealing with distributors that hold agency agreements for the brands they sell

SJCAM would have supplied the product to B&H with a warranty but that warranty stipulates that each side pays their own freight costs, this is a standard agreement for any China supplier to other countries, eg, B&H pays to freight back to China, SJCAM pays to freight the repair back to the USA, B&H are sneaking out of their responsibility on this one, regardless of what might be considered normal there
I agree the system is broken. The issue of freight back and forth to China seems to vary among retailers. Within the 30 days of course it's paid for entirely by B&H because the buyer is returning the product only to New York and presumably B&H ships it back to China.

We don't know for sure what the agreement is between B&H and SJCam. You could very well be right. But B&H's warranty terms are stipulated on their web page, and SJCam's warranty terms are stipulated on their web page. To me the SJCam warranty terms seem onerous, with SJCam basically reserving the right to charge the customer whatever they see fit. It's a tough situation for a buyer to be caught in after the 30 day period.

Sadly consumer protection laws are indeed lacking in the US and some states are worse than others. Where I live now (Georgia) is much worse than where I lived previously (Wisconsin) but I don't think either one has laws that would govern this particular situation.
 

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Are they upfront and advertise the fact that you need to talk to China post 30 days if you buy that product though?

As I said SJCAM would have sold the product to them with a 12 month warranty, that warranty doesn't extend directly to the consumer and is a return to base warranty at B&H's expense, B&H would be well aware of this but do they make the consumer aware of the limitation...
To be honest, I don't know.
 

TeriTerryTarry

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Are they upfront and advertise the fact that you need to talk to China post 30 days if you buy that product though?
Yes. Here is their web page page for the SJ5000X Elite. Note the stated 1 Year Limited Warranty. Here is the B&H Product Warranties and Repair web page. Note that the paragraph states "All items needing repair (other than IMP) should be sent to the manufacturer/distributor directly for service. B&H is not liable if the manufacturer/distributor fails to perform warranty service."
 
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Are they upfront and advertise the fact that you need to talk to China post 30 days if you buy that product though?

As I said SJCAM would have sold the product to them with a 12 month warranty, that warranty doesn't extend directly to the consumer and is a return to base warranty at B&H's expense, B&H would be well aware of this but do they make the consumer aware of the limitation

I get that most products if they are going to fail they do so within that 30 day period so for the most part this won't come up, situations like this though highlight where their system doesn't work
convo has blown up since i left - source re: sjcam providing a 12mo warranty to B&H?? This is the first I've heard of it. The only things I've seen re: SJCAM's "warranty" is what's been shown in this thread.

SJCAM doesn't honor warranties for cameras purchased away from it's website. Period. Says so right on there website. I posted for people's information, in case they were not aware.
 
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kyoo

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Yes. Here is their web page page for the SJ5000X Elite. Note the stated 1 Year Limited Warranty. Here is the B&H Product Warranties and Repair web page. Note that the paragraph states "All items needing repair (other than IMP) should be sent to the manufacturer/distributor directly for service. B&H is not liable if the manufacturer/distributor fails to perform warranty service."
Thank you - I'll update my first post with this.
 

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If the retailer doesn't agree with you that the defect was there at the time of purchase, how do you sort that out? For example, if a product has given you 5 years and 11 months of reliable service but then stops working, how does the consumer prove the defect was there all along?
Here in the UK we also have the “trading standards” we can go to, or as mentioned, the small clams court, cost £30

thats one of the reasons unless something is only available from eBay/china or has a low ticket price, I sooner buy from a UK/EU seller, even eBay if they are based here in the UK, it will cost more but with the higher price also comes a warranty and also as mentioned, here in the UK our contract is with the seller and they are the ones who see to it that the item is repaired/replaced at their costs,

In the end I would think in one way or another the costs would be covered by manufacturers

a little story, I don’t know how true this story is but this is what I heard, Lotus used to use MG Rover engines in their cars in the mid 90’s right up to when Rover went bust in 2005, most of us here in the UK have heard how some of the Rover K series engines suffer HGF, how Rover guaranteed these engines was by something like for every 5 engines Lotus purchased, they only paid for four engines (or another number) and if an engine did fail in the warranty period, Lotus footed the bill, but if it didn’t Lotus was in pocket

in your case if buying from your local (shop based in the US) gives you no more of a warranty than getting it cheaper from eBay/China , I see no reason for paying a higher price with no benefits by buying it local
 

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SJCAM doesn't honor warranties for cameras purchased away from it's website. Period. Says so right on there website. I posted for people's information, in case they were not aware.
correct, when it comes to consumers that have bought elsewhere

as a wholesale purchase these are purchased directly from the factory and have nothing to do with the retail sales from SJCAM's website, they provide warranty to their wholesale customer, not making any excuses for SJCAM but in this case B&H is imposing T&C's that SJCAM never support in the first place, B&H can state that it's the suppliers fault yadda, yadda but the reality is that they would purchase the goods from SJCAM knowing full well that consumers won't get warranty support direct from SJCAM
 

TeriTerryTarry

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correct, when it comes to consumers that have bought elsewhere

as a wholesale purchase these are purchased directly from the factory and have nothing to do with the retail sales from SJCAM's website, they provide warranty to their wholesale customer, not making any excuses for SJCAM but in this case B&H is imposing T&C's that SJCAM never support in the first place, B&H can state that it's the suppliers fault yadda, yadda but the reality is that they would purchase the goods from SJCAM knowing full well that consumers won't get warranty support direct from SJCAM
Do you know the T&C's between SJCam and B&H for a fact jokiin?
 

jokiin

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Do you know the T&C's between SJCam and B&H for a fact jokiin?
it's a standard export agreement, the only other arrangement would be to buy without warranty altogether and they would either get supplied extra cameras in consideration to cover any warranty claims or they could nominate spare parts they may want to be able to service the products locally, warranty for consumers to return directly to China is never an option
 

TeriTerryTarry

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in your case if buying from your local (shop based in the US) gives you no more of a warranty than getting it cheaper from eBay/China , I see no reason for paying a higher price with no benefits by buying it local
It depends. One problem with buying from sellers outside the US, such as direct from Chinese manufacturers, is that their prices aren't competitive and their deliveries take a long time. You can pay for expedited shipments but that just makes them even less competitive. The same is true for essentially any seller that does not maintain US stock. This includes most sellers on e-Bay (last time I checked). Although I'm a frequent shopper on Amazon for goods sold directly by Amazon or "fulfilled by Amazon", some of those vendors disappear despite their high ratings.

Mostly for me it's the difficulty of getting any response from such sellers within the 30 day window if you have a problem, and getting them to actually agree to a return instead of negotiating for partial credit. I've never had an issue with B&H Photo Video within the 30 day window on any product.

But I think the bigger point is that there shouldn't be any of these types of problems at all with Chinese manufacturers. When I buy direct from Japanese or Korean manufacturers, even when the product is made in Malaysia or wherever, or when I buy their products from high street retailers or US online sellers, I never have these problems even though the same type of warranty arrangements apply - dealing directly with the manufacturer after 30 days.
 

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I think the service B&H offer within that 30 days is great, beyond that though it all falls apart when you're talking about imported products with no local representation
 

TeriTerryTarry

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it's a standard export agreement, the only other arrangement would be to buy without warranty altogether and they would either get supplied extra cameras in consideration to cover any warranty claims or they could nominate spare parts they may want to be able to service the products locally, warranty for consumers to return directly to China is never an option
But have YOU seen the agreement between the Chinese manufacturer SJCam and the American retailer B&H Photo Video?
 

jokiin

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But have YOU seen the agreement between the Chinese manufacturer SJCam and the American retailer B&H Photo Video?
I mentioned the possibilities about how warranty can be offered by the supplier, I can't tell you what agreement they do have in place, I can tell you that customers returning the cameras directly to SJCAM will not be an option, returning product to China is not something that just anyone can facilitate, it's quite involved at the best of times
 

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you’ve hit the nail on the head, sometimes the ticket price isn’t the only cost. long delivery period, lack of communications with the seller, a good chance the item gets stopped at customs and if shipping wasn’t included in the price, this can often add a high percentage (dependant on item) of the end cost

not knowing much how things work in the US, I’m a bit surprised that the retailer who sells you the item has little responsibility once he has sold you the item.

since getting married (years ago now) we’ve bought all out TV’s from a retailer here in the UK (John Lewis) who, in the price of their TV’s gave you a 5 year warranty, this was when all warranties were only for one year, other retailers selling the same TV might have been a few pounds cheaper but adding a 5 year warranty to their TV’s often would of added a further £50 - £150 to the cost of their TV’s

having 50 states all with varying degree of consumer laws & warranties, it can be a minefield for the American consumer,

A few years back i heard that if you lived in one state and ordered an item from another state, you paid no tax on the item, as you weren’t a resident of the state you purchased the item from, (now if only we had this here in the EU). is this still in practice or have they closed the loop hole?
 

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