Thinkware U3000 Pro kills SD cards since January Update

qusejr2 said:
AS an engineer, I think there is no reason and way to destroy SD card intentionally. and thinkware may don't know which SD card Viofo use.
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That is great to know. Still does not change the fact that these SD cards worked 100% fine until customers updated their U3000 Pro. I just do not understand what is happening here.
 
qusejr2 said:
AS an engineer, I think there is no reason and way to destroy SD card intentionally. and thinkware may don't know which SD card Viofo use.
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You could probably code it so that certain cards aren't compatible, but I can't think of any method to intentionally brick a specific brand of card. Odds are what's happening is a firmware bug that got introduced that probably plauges more than Vueroid Viofo Cards, just @SafeDriveSolutions hasn't gone through to test numerous brands.
 
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jsmith said:
You could probably code it so that certain cards aren't compatible, but I can't think of any method to intentionally brick a specific brand of card. Odds are what's happening is a firmware bug that got introduced that probably plauges more than Vueroid Cards, just @SafeDriveSolutions hasn't gone through to test numerous brands.
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What I am taking from this is there must be some kind of bug in the firmware causing issues. If we were using a cheap quality SD card I would understand the failure but with a high quality SD card it is very puzzling.
 
jsmith said:
You could probably code it so that certain cards aren't compatible, but I can't think of any method to intentionally brick a specific brand of card. Odds are what's happening is a firmware bug that got introduced that probably plauges more than Vueroid Cards, just @SafeDriveSolutions hasn't gone through to test numerous brands.
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We only know what people in the field report; I have no reason to doubt any of them. Both VUEROID and Viofo use a microSDXC card from a well-known, reliable company. The VUEROID cards run a little cooler for me than the Viofo cards, but I have had zero issues with either.

If there is corruption in the .03 firmware, though difficult, it is possible that the file structure space/data structure was written in a way that appears encrypted to the controller. That is logical corruption. For physical corruption, it takes more 'tools' to access the controller, and I doubt any dashcam on the market is equipped with such capability. My opinion.

As the complaint is about Viofo-branded SDXC cards, someone with the latest .04 firmware could test with a Viofo card to see if it fails.
 
lufa6977 said:
We only know what people in the field report; I have no reason to doubt any of them. Both VUEROID and Viofo use a microSDXC card from a well-known, reliable company. The VUEROID cards run a little cooler for me than the Viofo cards, but I have had zero issues with either.

If there is corruption in the .03 firmware, though difficult, it is possible that the file structure space/data structure was written in a way that appears encrypted to the controller. That is logical corruption. For physical corruption, it takes more 'tools' to access the controller, and I doubt any dashcam on the market is equipped with such capability. My opinion.

As the complaint is about Viofo-branded SDXC cards, someone with the latest .04 firmware could test with a Viofo card to see if it fails.
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I meant to type Viofo not Vueroid. I confused myself on the response (sorry). I meant the issue is likely to plague MORE than just Viofo Cards. @SafeDriveSolutions hasn't tested other brands except Vueroid (successfully). I'm guessing there's a firmware bug which is likely writing data in such a way that certain memory card brand / manufacturers controller cards are running into a conflict.

Likewise, it could be an issue with how data is being written to the Nand Memory of certain brand cards, too.

I already suggested above @SafeDriveSolutions work back to identify exactly WHEN THE PROBLEM first happened in a firmware. This gives Thinkware a starting point to compare the code from X Firmware to .03 onward to see what changed.

Second, it would be helpful to test other card brands to see exactly which fail.
 
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jsmith said:
I meant to type Viofo not Vueroid. I confused myself on the response (sorry). I meant the issue is likely to plague MORE than just Viofo Cards. @SafeDriveSolutions hasn't tested other brands except Vueroid (successfully). I'm guessing there's a firmware bug which is likely writing data in such a way that certain memory card brand / manufacturers controller cards are running into a conflict.

Likewise, it could be an issue with how data is being written to the Nand Memory of certain brand cards, too.

I already suggested above @SafeDriveSolutions work back to identify exactly WHEN THE PROBLEM first happened in a firmware. This gives Thinkware a starting point to compare the code from X Firmware to .03 onward to see what changed.

Second, it would be helpful to test other card brands to see exactly which fail.
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memory cards are quite expensive now. To buy a bunch would not be cost effective for our company.
 
SafeDriveSolutions said:
memory cards are quite expensive now. To buy a bunch would not be cost effective for our company.
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SD card failures ā€” possible causes to consider:


  1. Could this be unrelated to firmware, and instead simply a result of long-term, extended usage of the SD card?
  2. Could it be related to changes in the operating environment temperature (since the seasons are changing, evironment become hotter)?
  3. Could it be related to the SD card's wear/lifespan (e.g., the difference between 1K P/E cycles and 3K P/E cycles)?

Question: Can the affected SD card be reformatted and used again? Or is it completely unrecognized by a PC and unable to be formatted at all?


If needed, you can send us the defective SD card(s) and we can take a look at them for further investigation.
 
qusejr2 said:
SD card failures ā€” possible causes to consider:


  1. Could this be unrelated to firmware, and instead simply a result of long-term, extended usage of the SD card?
  2. Could it be related to changes in the operating environment temperature (since the seasons are changing, evironment become hotter)?
  3. Could it be related to the SD card's wear/lifespan (e.g., the difference between 1K P/E cycles and 3K P/E cycles)?

Question: Can the affected SD card be reformatted and used again? Or is it completely unrecognized by a PC and unable to be formatted at all?


If needed, you can send us the defective SD card(s) and we can take a look at them for further investigation.
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If the SD card has become completely unresponsive, and it's neither due to extended use nor due to operation at high temperature, but rather caused by a firmware change, then a shift in the timing of the power-off sequence could be the cause ā€” leading to an improper/incomplete power-off of the SD card.


It's also possible that, over extended use, the super capacitor's capacity has degraded, shortening the available shutdown time, which could in turn contribute to an improper shutdown of the SD card.


In addition, this could come down to differences in how well a given SD card handles improper shutdowns ā€” some SD cards are simply more robust in this regard than others.


Inside the SD card itself there is also firmware, and that firmware writes the data received from the main CPU into the card's internal NAND flash. During this process, it also records metadata in addition to the actual data. If the power is cut off abruptly during this process, it can result in the SD card becoming corrupted.
 
qusejr2 said:
Inside the SD card itself there is also firmware, and that firmware writes the data received from the main CPU into the card's internal NAND flash. During this process, it also records metadata in addition to the actual data. If the power is cut off abruptly during this process, it can result in the SD card becoming corrupted.
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Do you think the sdformatter program would restore the card?

Ref:https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter/

Looks like it can't format if bitlocker is enabled?
It also says there is a reserved security area. I wonder if has been damaged.
 
LateralNW said:
Do you think the sdformatter program would restore the card?

Ref:https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter/

Looks like it can't format if bitlocker is enabled?
It also says there is a reserved security area. I wonder if has been damagedI
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I think , it can't. In side of SD card , there is small CPU(like micome) which manage nand flash(SD to nand data read and write , gabarge correction , wearleveling , ECC , bad block handling and so on , for that it maintain extra meta data for manage nandflash and also have some firmware area for small CPU. in my experience , if there is some corruption of meta data area , SD card just locked. for example there is some many bad block, or ECC error. this kind of error occur unproper power down or out of operation temp range , or lifespan is almost done. I just start to explain my experience for your understand , but I feel this is not helpful for solving this issue. because the SD turn to fail. the things I can say is " there is no intention"
 
qusejr2 said:
SD card failures ā€” possible causes to consider:


  1. Could this be unrelated to firmware, and instead simply a result of long-term, extended usage of the SD card?
  2. Could it be related to changes in the operating environment temperature (since the seasons are changing, evironment become hotter)?
  3. Could it be related to the SD card's wear/lifespan (e.g., the difference between 1K P/E cycles and 3K P/E cycles)?

Question: Can the affected SD card be reformatted and used again? Or is it completely unrecognized by a PC and unable to be formatted at all?


If needed, you can send us the defective SD card(s) and we can take a look at them for further investigation.
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No these sd cards we literally sent 2 defectives back last year. They have been highly reliable.

The sd cards started going down as soon as new firmware rolled out end of January/February not hot at all.

The sd cards can not be formatted or even read in anyway. I have seen this behaviour on sd cards when they have been used 3-5 years and finally call it quits. Not in a couple of months.

Also this is the 256gb and 512gb cards so it is very strange.

If you did not see earlier. Customer had zero issues
November, december, january, february, march, april, may, 7 months. Update done in June within 1 week sd card bricked and dead.
 
qusejr2 said:
I think , it can't. In side of SD card , there is small CPU(like micome) which manage nand flash(SD to nand data read and write , gabarge correction , wearleveling , ECC , bad block handling and so on , for that it maintain extra meta data for manage nandflash and also have some firmware area for small CPU. in my experience , if there is some corruption of meta data area , SD card just locked. for example there is some many bad block, or ECC error. this kind of error occur unproper power down or out of operation temp range , or lifespan is almost done. I just start to explain my experience for your understand , but I feel this is not helpful for solving this issue. because the SD turn to fail. the things I can say is " there is no intention"
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Yeah i dont think this was intentionally done but it just seems weird that the update has caused this. At first i thought it was to do with hardware. But when we started hearing from people on original hardware run after they did the update it has become very clear something is related to the update.

Who knows maybe something crazy happens like it duplicates the config file and crashes sd card. I have no idea. The sd cards were sent back to Viofo and we will wait to hear if they find anything
 
SafeDriveSolutions said:
Yeah i dont think this was intentionally done but it just seems weird that the update has caused this. At first i thought it was to do with hardware. But when we started hearing from people on original hardware run after they did the update it has become very clear something is related to the update.

Who knows maybe something crazy happens like it duplicates the config file and crashes sd card. I have no idea. The sd cards were sent back to Viofo and we will wait to hear if they find anything
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Did you gain physical access to any of the MicroSD cards? Were you able to try to revive them with SDCardFormatter (asked that way above) or simply mailed them back to Viofo?
 
jsmith said:
Did you gain physical access to any of the MicroSD cards? Were you able to try to revive them with SDCardFormatter (asked that way above) or simply mailed them back to Viofo?
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They were all sent back to Viofo. We may get our hands on another one and can test.
 
jsmith said:
It is very unlikely the cards were physically "bricked". More likely they needed a proper format to "revive them". Bricking a card means the nand or controller is physically damaged and/or failed.
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So you think we do not know how to format an sd card?
 
SafeDriveSolutions said:
So you think we do not know how to format an sd card?
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You said that you lacked physical access to the Viofo MicroSD cards to check if they were software "Bricked" (Format can fix) or Hardware "Bricked" (Bad Nand / Controller) where a format wouldn't resolve. It's very unlikely a firmware bug could physically brick a card. It could cause corruption in the way data is written to the Nand or how the Controller processes the data, but it wouldn't permanently damage it.

SafeDriveSolutions said:
They were all sent back to Viofo. We may get our hands on another one and can test.
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The SDCard.org 'SD Memory Card Formatter' will not format an SD card that the OS can not see.

If the inserted SD card is not seen and mounted by the OS, I have never seen the SDCard formatter be able to find and format that card. Conversely, if the OS detects the SD card, even if it is corrupted, the SDCard formatter will attempt to format it. The difference between the SDCard formatter and the OS formatter is that the SDCard formatter follows its own specifications for allocating space, alignment, etc on that card. OS formatters often fall short of the specification.
 
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