Trouble finding a dashcam that meets specific criteria

[Nigel]

Spyware/malware risk. Not worth taking chances.

I'm not "setting myself up for failure". We may simply have different definitions of failure.

Isn't the point of a dashcam that it does spy on everything?

As long as you don't connect it to the internet then there is no risk of loosing control of the data collected. There are plenty of cameras that don't have wifi so have no method of communicating with the internet. Even most of the ones that do have wifi will not allow connection to the internet since they operate only on their own network.

 

[Rescue77]

Isn't the point of a dashcam that it does spy on everything?

As long as you don't connect it to the internet then there is no risk of loosing control of the data collected. There are plenty of cameras that don't have wifi so have no method of communicating with the internet. Even most of the ones that do have wifi will not allow connection to the internet since they operate only on their own network.

Not exactly. They record video out the front window, not inside the vehicle. And if the microphone and GPS cannot be disabled, I won't buy it for that very reason. I want control over what is recorded, and I want a reasonable amount of confidence that the device is doing what it tells me it is doing in not recording certain data.

As for connectivity, with a unit that does not have a screen, at some point that requires either the installation of an app on a smartphone from the same company that manufactures the dashcam, or the physical insertion of a memory card that had been in the dashcam into a computer. So even if there is no direct connectivity as you point out, that does not eliminate the risks.

 

[Nigel]

Not exactly. They record video out the front window, not inside the vehicle. And if the microphone and GPS cannot be disabled, I won't buy it for that very reason. I want control over what is recorded, and I want a reasonable amount of confidence that the device is doing what it tells me it is doing in not recording certain data.

As for connectivity, with a unit that does not have a screen, at some point that requires either the installation of an app on a smartphone from the same company that manufactures the dashcam, or the physical insertion of a memory card that had been in the dashcam into a computer. So even if there is no direct connectivity as you point out, that does not eliminate the risks.

You can turn off your phone data connection while it is connected to the camera, and disconnect your computer from the internet while you have the memory card available to it. Or, like me, use a tablet with no mobile data connection to run the app.

I don't see what any of this has to do with a camera being of Chinese manufacture or design? The Chinese would have no interest in spying on your driving whereas the USA government/police may! In any case, the processors and most of the software that might possibly do the spying in most of our dashcams is from a Taiwan company, doesn't matter where in the world it is produced, even GoPro which is USA based uses a processor and software from a Japanese company.

 

[Rescue77]

You can turn off your phone data connection while it is connected to the camera, and disconnect your computer from the internet while you have the memory card available to it. Or, like me, use a tablet with no mobile data connection to run the app.

I don't see what any of this has to do with a camera being of Chinese manufacture or design? The Chinese would have no interest in spying on your driving whereas the USA government/police may! In any case, the processors and most of the software that might possibly do the spying in most of our dashcams is from a Taiwan company, doesn't matter where in the world it is produced, even GoPro which is USA based uses a processor and software from a Japanese company.

If you've installed their software on your phone, whether you have a data connection open when connected to the camera is irrelevant. If malware is on an SD card put into your computer, whether your computer is connected to the Internet at that moment is irrelevant.

In the end, a lot is made in China, including from companies like Apple. However, I'm choosing to draw a line at the level of influence that can be exerted on the company responsible for the device. Incidents such as what has recently been reported about Super Micro are more difficult, albeit still possible.

You are free to choose for yourself what level of risk you're willing to take. I'm happy to explain my decision if someone is asking out of curiosity or an interest to learn, but I'm not going to argue about it. It's an informed decision, and I'm quite comfortable with it. If someone else is willing to take a risk that I'm not, they're free to make that decision on their own.

 

[TonyM]

@Nigel, did you read the first post:

I'm not trying to negotiate, and I'm not going to compromise. If no such product exists, then I just won't buy anything..

 

[Nigel]

@Nigel, did you read the first post:

Yes, read that, that's why I've said nothing all week!

If you've installed their software on your phone, whether you have a data connection open when connected to the camera is irrelevant. If malware is on an SD card put into your computer, whether your computer is connected to the Internet at that moment is irrelevant.

While there may be some truth in that, if the spyware doesn't have access to the data then it can't send it anywhere, and I would expect to notice if something started sending many GigaBytes of video data, either between devices or into the internet.

 

[Rescue77]

While there may be some truth in that, if the spyware doesn't have access to the data then it can't send it anywhere, and I would expect to notice if something started sending many GigaBytes of video data, either between devices or into the internet.

Once on your phone, it has access to all of the data on your phone. At that point, I'm less concerned with the data on the dashcam than I am with the data on my phone. It's just that I had to install the app because I bought the dashcam. Easier to do on Android than on iOS, it can also provide remote access.

When done well, the data is sent in such low volume that you wouldn't notice a change in traffic volume. You'd need to have a packet-level monitor on the network. For an extreme example, have a look at the recent Bloomberg article about Super Micro Computer.

 

[Nigel]

Once on your phone, it has access to all of the data on your phone. At that point, I'm less concerned with the data on the dashcam than I am with the data on my phone. It's just that I had to install the app because I bought the dashcam. Easier to do on Android than on iOS, it can also provide remote access.

When done well, the data is sent in such low volume that you wouldn't notice a change in traffic volume. You'd need to have a packet-level monitor on the network. For an extreme example, have a look at the recent Bloomberg article about Super Micro Computer.

Most cams with wifi functionality don't need the app if you don't want to use the app's functionality. If you do then you can run the app on a non-internet connected device. If you just want access to the files from your phone then you can use the phone's internet browser pointed at the camera's webserver - if you trust your phone's web browser to be secure.

That article was an interesting read, I take it you meant this one: https://www.zdnet.com/article/super...rg-chip-hack-story-in-recent-customer-letter/

 

[Rescue77]

Most cams with wifi functionality don't need the app if you don't want to use the app's functionality. If you do then you can run the app on a non-internet connected device. If you just want access to the files from your phone then you can use the phone's internet browser pointed at the camera's webserver - if you trust your phone's web browser to be secure.

That article was an interesting read, I take it you meant this one: https://www.zdnet.com/article/super...rg-chip-hack-story-in-recent-customer-letter/

Yes, I could jump through all of those hoops. Or I could just not buy a Chinese dashcam. I choose the much easier of the two options. You're welcome to do as you wish.

As for the Super Micro piece, I referred to it as an extreme example. In the end, there's no way to know what actually happened in this specific case, as the reality will remain within classified circles. However, it simply served as a convenient example to your comment that suggested backdoored hardware would create large volumes of traffic. In that regard, it served its purpose.

Anyway....this isn't going anywhere. You seem determined to try to argue this, and I have no interest in doing so or changing my position on Chinese dashcams. So let's just agree to end this here. A few ideas were suggested previously. I'm looking into those. If they don't pan out, I'll check the market selection again in a year to see if anything has changed.

 

[Nigel]

Yes, I could jump through all of those hoops. Or I could just not buy a Chinese dashcam. I choose the much easier of the two options. You're welcome to do as you wish.

As for the Super Micro piece, I referred to it as an extreme example. In the end, there's no way to know what actually happened in this specific case, as the reality will remain within classified circles. However, it simply served as a convenient example to your comment that suggested backdoored hardware would create large volumes of traffic. In that regard, it served its purpose.

Anyway....this isn't going anywhere. You seem determined to try to argue this, and I have no interest in doing so or changing my position on Chinese dashcams. So let's just agree to end this here. A few ideas were suggested previously. I'm looking into those. If they don't pan out, I'll check the market selection again in a year to see if anything has changed.

How do you know that the non-Chinese cameras are any safer?

Your example of Super Micro being a problem is a perfect example, since Super Micro is a USA company...

Seems to me that the only safe answer is to not connect the devices to the internet, then they can't leak information, and then it doesn't matter if they contain code that tries to do so or not.

 

[Rescue77]

Not here to debate. You do what works for you. I'll do what works for me.

 

[kamkar]

Yeah.
I am still waiting for some one to build my dream camera, so until then i will have to make do with what i can get.
And there are good cameras out there, just not one yet that check all my boxes.