Using Mobius with LED lights or headlights

[niko]

@niko, You'd initally asked what I'd meant by flickering and mentioned the issued you'd and with FW 1.20, hence why I directed you towards the Mobius 1.20 Firmware Discussion Thread.

I knew nothing about LED lights, but had noticed the flickering on the rear lights of the VW Golf I mentioned above, which got me thinking about LED lighting.
I can assure that your and others comments/information are much appreciated!

Ok, I just was confused by the fact of your purchase desire of new car with LED lights and PWN of other cars light, but now I see what you meant. I still learn English meanings

 

[Dashmellow]

@niko, I think your English language skills are just fine and I'm sure others would agree.

 

[Dashmellow]

@Dashmellow - Thanks for pulling it back on thread! The second video was precisely the sort of thing I'd seen (on a VW Golf R I was following in traffic).
I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for a car with full LED front headlights to see what they look like on footage. They are very rare at the moment, so this could take some time....

I've seen many flickering car taillights yet I can't recall ever seeing flickering headlights in any of my dash cam videos. You make a good point that they are still pretty rare though but my hunch is that PWM is probably not used in automotive headlamps. Remember, PWM is a method of regulation used for dimming and so the LED dies used for headlights are most likely run for maximum brightness. Current generation automotive LED headlamps use an array of LED dies to achieve the desired brightness. So for maximum highbeam all of the LED dies on the module would be engaged but for normal lowbeam use only a few of the dies are engaged. The LUXEON Altilon modules (used in the Audio A8) have four LED dies (the yellow squares). My understanding is that in the near future the number of various dies used in automotive headlamps will be engaged automatically to change different brightness levels so when you drive down a dark road they will all turn on but when they sense an oncoming car's headlights some of the dies will shut off. This avoids the need for PWM in headlamps.

It is possible that some first generation LED car headlights use PWM which could explain why some people have reported them flickering in videos but I haven't seen any examples.

Phillips Lumileds LUXEON Altilon module

 

[Dashmellow]

Here's an interesting little "factoid" about solid state brakelights.........LEDs illuminate 400 to 500 milliseconds faster than an incandescent lamp, which provides that cellphone chatting texter behind you an additional 40 to 44 feet of warning (at 60 mph) that you have applied the brakes.

 

[niko]

@niko, I think your English language skills are just fine and I'm sure others would agree.

I do my best. Thanks for support guys !

 

[Hilts]

I've seen many flickering car taillights yet I can't recall ever seeing flickering headlights in any of my dash cam videos. You make a good point that they are still pretty rare though but my hunch is that PWM is probably not used in automotive headlamps. Remember, PWM is a method of regulation used for dimming and so the LED dies used for headlights are most likely run for maximum brightness. Current generation automotive LED headlamps use an array of LED dies to achieve the desired brightness. So for maximum highbeam all of the LED dies on the module would be engaged but for normal lowbeam use only a few of the dies are engaged. The LUXEON Altilon modules (used in the Audio A8) have four LED dies (the yellow squares). My understanding is that in the near future the number of various dies used in automotive headlamps will be engaged automatically to change different brightness levels so when you drive down a dark road they will all turn on but when they sense an oncoming car's headlights some of the dies will shut off. This avoids the need for PWM in headlamps.

Here's an interesting little "factoid" about solid state brakelights.........LEDs illuminate 400 to 500 milliseconds faster than an incandescent lamp, which provides that cellphone chatting texter behind you an additional 40 to 44 feet of warning (at 60 mph) that you have applied the brakes.

@Dashmellow, Thanks for the further information/factoid. I was just having a look at some footage of cars going the opposite direction where I'd clocked they had LED Daylight Running Lights. Some were always static and some appearing to flash in the footage - so no PWM and PWM being used, respectively, then.
I suspect you are right about the full LED headlights not using PWM. I might see if can arrange an overnight test drive in one with full-LED headlights to lay my mind at rest!

Not sure that the average 'texting & driving' individual would be paying enough attention to notice any brakelights, LED or otherwise!! Opps, my bad, they're probably Twittering or should that be Tweeting??!

 

[Hilts]

@Dashmellow, Thanks for the further information/factoid. I was just having a look at some footage of cars going the opposite direction where I'd clocked they had LED Daylight Running Lights. Some were always static and some appearing to flash in the footage - so no PWM and PWM being used, respectively, then.
I suspect you are right about the full LED headlights not using PWM. I might see if can arrange an overnight test drive in one with full-LED headlights to lay my mind at rest!

Not sure that the average 'texting & driving' individual would be paying enough attention to notice any brakelights, LED or otherwise!! Opps, my bad, they're probably Twittering or should that be Tweeting??!

Given up on the idea of replacing my car this year... still intrigued if anyone captures footage of a car with Full LED headlights what they look like on recorded footage though, i.e., PWM or no PWM.

 

[lamboboy732]

Given up on the idea of replacing my car this year... still intrigued if anyone captures footage of a car with Full LED headlights what they look like on recorded footage though, i.e., PWM or no PWM.

Not to crush ideas here, but have you looked into the cost per output of LED headlights as well as the feasibility of retrofitting them into your car? I know they will be expensive and they will not be as simple as a plug and play bulb. If you have the skills consider looking into a hid projector retrofit(or projector upgrade if you already have projector headlights). It will provide incredible output with much more stability and longevity than an LED retrofit. LED headlights are just too new and most cars on the roads don't have them. Aside from the new Corolla they are more of a high end feature because of their complexity and design intensive nature.

 

[Hilts]

Not to crush ideas here, but have you looked into the cost per output of LED headlights as well as the feasibility of retrofitting them into your car? I know they will be expensive and they will not be as simple as a plug and play bulb. If you have the skills consider looking into a hid projector retrofit(or projector upgrade if you already have projector headlights). It will provide incredible output with much more stability and longevity than an LED retrofit. LED headlights are just too new and most cars on the roads don't have them. Aside from the new Corolla they are more of a high end feature because of their complexity and design intensive nature.

Just to clarify I'm wasn't looking at retrofitting to my current car, I was considering buying the new Seat Leon which, in the UK, has certain models being marketed with free Tech Pack upgrade including LED lights see http://www.seat.co.uk/content/uk/brand/en/models/leon-sc/technology.html
I've put that idea on the back burner for now though, will review next year. Will be keeping my eyes peeled for one to get it recorded on my Mobius to see what the score is re. PWM.
Might still retrofit LED bulbs around the house in the meantime.

 

[lamboboy732]

Just to clarify I'm wasn't looking at retrofitting to my current car, I was considering buying the new Seat Leon which, in the UK, has certain models begin marketed with free Tech Pack upgrade including LED lights see http://www.seat.co.uk/content/uk/brand/en/models/leon-sc/technology.html
I've put that idea on the back burner for now though, will review next year. Will be keeping my eyes peeled for one to get it recorded on my Mobius to see what the score is re. PWM.
Might still retrofit LED bulbs around the house in the meantime.

Okay, that makes more sense. As far as leds around the house, go with some high quality ones and you wont have any issues. They are miles better than CFL bulbs. I've had the majority of high usage lights in my home on LED for about a ear now, and you can't tell they aren't incandescent.

 

[Hilts]

Finally managed to get some footage of a new Seat Leon with its LED highlights operating yesterday evening. No flickering whatsoever in the footage.
Thank you to all who've contributed in this Thread.