Rollei Car-Dvr 200 / A7LA55

[synoptic12]

It just uses the now pretty standard Novatek 96550 CPU and Aptina AR0330 sensor to be honest as found in lots of cameras these days - to be honest a lot of these are pretty similar in the day time - it's the night time where you start to see the biggest differences on that combination because that's where the software WDR trickery comes in to play.

Even then if you look at the next link you can see that even with totally different lenses, CPUs and sensors, you still get very similar performance between two totally different platforms:

http://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/mobius-0-47-vs-dome-g90-r441mp-hdr-on-night.6864/

You've probably already seen Niko's link here which then compares four cameras:

Night 2. B40 / A118 vs Panorama vs Mobius B vs Mini 0803

Again there's not an absolutely huge difference there. I need to try the A118 up front as I liked the fact that although it wasn't the brightest camera at night that it was sharp - currently it's mounted in the back of my car and the rear tint makes it (and probably most cameras) useless at night. I need to try the G90 at some point in there and in hindsight should have tried the LS460W before I sent it back.

It just uses the now pretty standard Novatek 96550 CPU and Aptina AR0330 sensor to be honest as found in lots of cameras these days - to be honest a lot of these are pretty similar in the day time - it's the night time where you start to see the biggest differences on that combination because that's where the software WDR trickery comes in to play.

Even then if you look at the next link you can see that even with totally different lenses, CPUs and sensors, you still get very similar performance between two totally different platforms:

http://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/mobius-0-47-vs-dome-g90-r441mp-hdr-on-night.6864/

You've probably already seen Niko's link here which then compares four cameras:

Night 2. B40 / A118 vs Panorama vs Mobius B vs Mini 0803

Again there's not an absolutely huge difference there. I need to try the A118 up front as I liked the fact that although it wasn't the brightest camera at night that it was sharp - currently it's mounted in the back of my car and the rear tint makes it (and probably most cameras) useless at night. I need to try the G90 at some point in there and in hindsight should have tried the LS460W before I sent it back.

Yes, watched this video many times, analyzing all aspects. The Mobius appears to be a fine dash cam. Differences to 0803, some additional glare (minor). However, the color seems more realistic with the Mobius than the 0803. The Pan 2 and G40 are not really superior. The only thing I noticed with the Mobius is that the field of view is less than the other 3 cams. To me, it may be somewhat beneficial to have a smaller field of view, whereas more clarity is possibly present. The WDR is 'trickery' for sure. The daytime video (which I like), of the Mobius, is fairly good. May decide to test one out: Mobius.

* Still looks that the Mini 0803 is on par, if not better than A118 (Night).

 

[reverend]

For the price I love it - I've used it as much as an action cam as well so the flexibility is good. For something so small it takes great footage.

The new Panorama firmware currently in beta looks like it darkens things down at night time to get better clarity - there are some test videos on YT - the flashing on the Mobius is the low light setting doing it's thing which can be disabled. They're working on fixing that but not all firmware versions do it so you can use your favourite version.

Mobius VS Panorama II S Day #1
Mobius VS Panorama II S at Night #1
Mobius VS Panorama II S at Night #2

 

[synoptic12]

For the price I love it - I've used it as much as an action cam as well so the flexibility is good. For something so small it takes great footage.

The new Panorama firmware currently in beta looks like it darkens things down at night time to get better clarity - there are some test videos on YT - the flashing on the Mobius is the low light setting doing it's thing which can be disabled. They're working on fixing that but not all firmware versions do it so you can use your favourite version.

Mobius VS Panorama II S Day #1
Mobius VS Panorama II S at Night #1
Mobius VS Panorama II S at Night #2

Watched video #2 (Night). The Mobius seems to be again on par, or better than Pan 2. Now, upon using 'freeze frame' to notice a difference in light > i.e. Mobius, (low-light setting), there is some good video quality when low-light setting is enabled. However, the 'flashing' is annoying. If the low-light setting is disabled, the video becomes dark, BUT still within range of acceptable capture. If there were a FW version to correct this fault, I would purchase. What is your opinion on the two lenses available with the Mobius, wide as opposed to standard. There seems to be different qualities associated with each one. The standard lens appears to maintain better clarity, possibly at the expense of FOV, which I have made mention of earlier on. The wider lens captures more area BUT clarity is reduced, you think?

P.S. - Your going to make me purchase the Mobius!

 

[reverend]

That's just too much pressure for one man

The only thing with those videos is that they don't show the clarity - it's probable the new Panorama firmware will improve it but we'll see what happens when it's released. It would make sense though - a darker night image means less exposure which means a sharper image. In theory again of course. I turned the exposure down on the LS460W until it gave me some numberplates, but it was that dark that the rest of the image wasn't really that useful by then

You can either run an older firmware that doesn't support low light (a lot of people like 0.59) but if you go to the newer firmware like 2.10 you gain timelapse.

It is a very simple process to change though - just copy a file onto a memory card, insert it into the camera and wait 30 seconds so it's not hard work going backwards and forwards and it literally takes less than 30 seconds to configure the camera once you've been through the msetup interface a few times.

As for the lens it's totally down to your needs. If you prefer absolute clarity and don't do so much night driving you may be better off with the standard lens - the wide lens seems better at night though and to be honest is plenty sharp enough for me. One reason the standard lens seems better is that it makes everything look closer and because it's closer there are more pixels to resolve numberplates and other details. That's the primary reason people prefer standard lenses because they get more usable detail. At the prices the Mobius goes for I'm tempted to run two - one with each lens and see how it goes

I have wondered if the Mobius lens could be fitted to an A7 device - it more than likely could, and in fact I just posted that a Russian company called Street Storm have just changed the lens out for performance reasons on one of their cameras made by Samoon in China.

That then leads nicely into focus - if you're not happy with it for whatever reason it's an easy job to tweak the Mobius unlike the others.

I'm not saying the Mobius is better than those other cams - but for my needs it's certainly good enough for now. I do still want a Panorama at some point just to see what the fuss is about and especially for the parking mode.

I'm going to try the Mobius as a rear cam tonight side by side with my trusty GT680W which has served me well - I'll report back how they compare through my factory tinted glass as that causes problems for many cameras.

 

[synoptic12]

That's just too much pressure for one man

The only thing with those videos is that they don't show the clarity - it's probable the new Panorama firmware will improve it but we'll see what happens when it's released. It would make sense though - a darker night image means less exposure which means a sharper image. In theory again of course. I turned the exposure down on the LS460W until it gave me some numberplates, but it was that dark that the rest of the image wasn't really that useful by then

You can either run an older firmware that doesn't support low light (a lot of people like 0.59) but if you go to the newer firmware like 2.10 you gain timelapse.

It is a very simple process to change though - just copy a file onto a memory card, insert it into the camera and wait 30 seconds so it's not hard work going backwards and forwards and it literally takes less than 30 seconds to configure the camera once you've been through the msetup interface a few times.

As for the lens it's totally down to your needs. If you prefer absolute clarity and don't do so much night driving you may be better off with the standard lens - the wide lens seems better at night though and to be honest is plenty sharp enough for me. One reason the standard lens seems better is that it makes everything look closer and because it's closer there are more pixels to resolve numberplates and other details. I have wondered if the Mobius lens could be fitted to an A7 device - it more than likely could, and in fact I just posted that a Russian company called Street Storm have just changed the lens out for performance reasons on one of their cameras made by Samoon in China.

That then leads nicely into focus - if you're not happy with it for whatever reason it's an easy job to tweak the Mobius unlike the others.

I'm not saying the Mobius is better than those other cams - but for my needs it's certainly good enough for now. I do still want a Panorama at some point just to see what the fuss is about and especially for the parking mode.

I'm going to try the Mobius as a rear cam tonight side by side with my trusty GT680W which has served me well - I'll report back how they compare through my factory tinted glass as that causes problems for many cameras.

Yes, you have pointed out some of the finer details, in which I knew you were aware of.

What issues are there concerning tinted (factory) glass? Mostly all cars have a tinted windscreen. We would believe that it may be effective in aiding the camera lens by eliminating glare, or otherwise.

 

[reverend]

Ah sorry when I say tinted I mean the rear privacy glass that's letting probably less than 50% of light through - up front is fine Worst case glare or not you may want to think about a CPL, but you'll only know for sure how it affects you once you've actually got something mounted and put some miles on the clock.

The biggest issue with tint up front is that it can affect some GPS devices - but that's not a problem with the Mobius. Originally I went from a camera without GPS to one with - and now I'm making the transition back again.

 

[Nigel]

The wider lens captures more area BUT clarity is reduced, you think?!

Remember though that the 0803 has higher resolution to get that clarity back, no point looking at a test that runs it at normal 1080. Not sure that is applicable at night though since none of them get close to using full resolution anyway in the dark.

 

[synoptic12]

Ah sorry when I say tinted I mean the rear privacy glass that's letting probably less than 50% of light through - up front is fine Worst case glare or not you may want to think about a CPL, but you'll only know for sure how it affects you once you've actually got something mounted and put some miles on the clock.

The biggest issue with tint up front is that it can affect some GPS devices - but that's not a problem with the Mobius. Originally I went from a camera without GPS to one with - and now I'm making the transition back again.

Will not use CPL, but may consider a ND filter, maybe 0.1 (somewhat expensive). Do not plan on using GPS, find it meaningless. Again, this reverts back to the lens, irrespective of lens placement. A great amount of glare can be significantly reduced with multi-layer coatings. Most manufacturers will not use additional coatings, due to cost, and naturally return. Without good coatings, one would only be tempted to add a filter. This is simply becoming a game, in that purchasing these aftermarket products would cost more than the cam is worth; including the addition of a capacitor, lens. The developer should utilize all these components as being "extras" but available. The main reason is simply 'money'. Build as cheaply as possible, but sell high.

 

[reverend]

The problem is they need to make these cheap so the masses will buy them - if they make one using all top quality parts it's a much more niche market unfortunately - we'd love it on here though.

If you added an ND filter wouldn't that potentially cause more blurring of registration plates etc, especially if you're adding 3 stops?

 

[synoptic12]

Remember though that the 0803 has higher resolution to get that clarity back, no point looking at a test that runs it at normal 1080. Not sure that is applicable at night though since none of them get close to using full resolution anyway in the dark.

Yes, but what I'd like to see is the Mini 0803 with a slightly smaller FOV, and using the 55 chip. The 55 chip looks pretty good. Can notice a slight variation from the 50 chip. Again, and again, the lens is the key component. Apparently, the WDR is trying to be portrayed a some improvement for 'night video'. We see it not making any difference. We knew of WDR long before this facet was placed in dash cams. Manufacturer's should up the scale, never know until one's tried.

 

[synoptic12]

The problem is they need to make these cheap so the masses will buy them - if they make one using all top quality parts it's a much more niche market unfortunately - we'd love it on here though.

If you added an ND filter wouldn't that potentially cause more blurring of registration plates etc, especially if you're adding 3 stops?

Referring to the ND filter, No it would not. We have limited knowledge as to filters, but some. The circular polarizer seems to be efficient but detracts from the image: color, clarity, sort of a second film to say. Do not appreciate this effect. Have not analyzed frames as yet, but plan on doing so. I make mention of an ND filter for the fact in reducing reflection and glare, without imposing any negative image rendering: detracting from the raw file. From what I have read, this is the filter I would opt for (ND). This filter is abridged upon the frame stop of the camera. As for the Mini 0803 with, I believe a F2, one can use a 1.0 N.D. I'm looking just to reduce reflection, if present. I will have to try the 0.1, 0.3. and 1.0. Will not move further than that.

As to your first sentence, I could not agree more. a 'NICHE' market that you refer to, should be more capable of providing better quality, not cheating the consumer. This is where the price comes into play. Keep the price low, and should anything go wrong, one has not lost much. This is terribly a poor policy, based upon profit. Really, you make mention of a Mobius lens being at about $20.00. How much more in cost could there be in adding an additional coat to the lens? This would significantly reduce the glare to around 0.2 %. A business person would believe that more money could be generated with just this second coating. We do not the figures, and this may amount to millions BUT highly unlikely. The labs are very expensive, most likely bleeding anyone trying to use their product.

 

[reverend]

I just had a read and the Mobius lenses are actually 7 layer - btw you don't need to buy it seperately if you do go down that route - that one I linked too was just if you wanted to buy that individual component, i.e. you can buy the camera which comes with either the standard or wide lens and then you can add the other if you wanted.

I don't actually know who makes the lenses - who knows, maybe they already have the coatings on?

 

[synoptic12]

I just had a read and the Mobius lenses are actually 7 layer - btw you don't need to buy it seperately if you do go down that route - that one I linked too was just if you wanted to buy that individual component, i.e. you can buy the camera which comes with either the standard or wide lens and then you can add the other if you wanted.

I don't actually know who makes the lenses - who knows, maybe they already have the coatings on?

Please provide that information, and link > "7-Layer Mobius Lens".

 

[reverend]

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25880644&postcount=1984

Also of interest from that thread is this bit:

A wider AOV lens, referred to as "Lens B" is now available (details here), and more high quality/nominal cost lens alternatives are continually being sought. The CMOS module has a "standard" 12M x 0.5 thread, so it can accept other third party lenses if a user can find a suitable one.

 

[reverend]

Also I'm guessing you've seen this but they have CPL and ND filters specifically for the Mobius standard lens here:

http://www.eyeofmineactioncameras.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=mobius

And the guys here have already tried cheap CCTV lenses in the Mobius:

http://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/lens-play-with-mobius.4811/

 

[Nigel]

Apparently, the WDR is trying to be portrayed a some improvement for 'night video'. We see it not making any difference. We knew of WDR long before this facet was placed in dash cams.

We do see the difference of wide dynamic range cameras over non-WDR cameras, the problem is that in order to sell WDR as a feature the manufacturers add a menu option to turn some effect called "WDR" on and off, this effect has little to do with the dynamic range of the sensor but does something to manipulate the data from the wide dynamic range sensor to try and include more detail in what is stored in the video stream, we get the benefit of WDR even if that menu option is turned off.

 

[synoptic12]

Please provide that information, and link > "7-Layer Mobius Lens".

Seven quality optical glass elements does not mean 7 layers of coating upon the lens. This merely could refer to a term. I would have to view the white paper to verify a statement made by a poster. Where he obtained that information is beyond me. Not even Mobius brings to light such an important feature.

P.S. - If this were true, there should be no reflection or glare at about 0.2 %; because that is what it would be. That is a great may coatings. Must be magnesium fluoride, cheap substitute.

 

[synoptic12]

We do see the difference of wide dynamic range cameras over non-WDR cameras, the problem is that in order to sell WDR as a feature the manufacturers add a menu option to turn some effect called "WDR" on and off, this effect has little to do with the dynamic range of the sensor but does something to manipulate the data from the wide dynamic range sensor to try and include more detail in what is stored in the video stream, we get the benefit of WDR even if that menu option is turned off.

Well, certainly more information enters the datastream for 'possibly' better detail. However, we just don't see it. We are well versed with WDR, as I have said, long before this feature being included in dash cams. There is mention of turning off the WDR in daytime and turning off at night. This right here just shows you that WDR is somewhat of a gimmick. Granted, WDR has nothing in common with the sensor BUT there is no difference, unless you count the pixels. In that sense, we still see no difference. Have not analyzed "freeze frame", but we have no need to do so. If there were an instance to bring a subject in focus, we could use video editing software.

* What specific difference do you see in WDR?

 

[synoptic12]

Also I'm guessing you've seen this but they have CPL and ND filters specifically for the Mobius standard lens here:

http://www.eyeofmineactioncameras.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=mobius

And the guys here have already tried cheap CCTV lenses in the Mobius:

http://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/lens-play-with-mobius.4811/

As to the second link, this seems to be more than 90° as the OP-ED states. It looks to be at least 140°, what do you see? I'm unfamiliar with megapixel lens or ragecam lens.

 

[synoptic12]

Also I'm guessing you've seen this but they have CPL and ND filters specifically for the Mobius standard lens here:

http://www.eyeofmineactioncameras.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=mobius

And the guys here have already tried cheap CCTV lenses in the Mobius:

http://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/lens-play-with-mobius.4811/

Thank you for the first link. Was not aware Mobius provided ND filters. However .6 is too much. This may darken the video. This is what we plan on testing. Before testing, we still believe that 0.1 is the best ND filter, which Mobius does not carry. If you move to 0.6 ND, you may as well use a CPL.