4x dash cam video test: Dod "neutral" VF300W vs LS300W, LS650W, DL-5

[Belial88]

Eh, I'm not sure it's just a half meter, and the 650w isn't THAT much viewing angle extra. I believe the powerruc has a lot more on it even. And I don't care about day, where all cams look good, I'm talking about night. Honestly the 650w looks like crap in those videos and pics, it seems to have roughly the same quality as the much more inferior DL-5. And, it's got that awful darkening effect that the DL-5 has. This isn't some tiny reduction in quality for a huge boost in viewing angle, it's a slight increase in viewing quality and a dramatic reduction in quality:

The VF300w can read the license plate. The GT300w I'm sure can, i think we just can't see it due to angle + headlight issue on white plate, but the DL-5 can't read it and the 650w can't read it. The 650 is the worse off of the bunch.

I think this image is much more dramatic though:

The DL-5 and 650w looks very similar and got that awful tinge to it, like they are in fog. The left 2 images are much clearer.

I mean it's a huge sacrifice in quality for a very tiny viewing angle gain. I agree panorama is important, but you can't just say "I want a $100 panorama cam". A good $100 panorama cam just doesn't exist. If you want panorama, either get the powerruc or... well, live with a sacrifice in quality.

 

[ursamajor]

Sorry, if you would have to move the car half meter closest, you would have the same visibility, sharpness or clarity, in LS650W videos, too. I've not neither the time and neither the interess to show it to you, mathematically. Buy what you want, but just do it.

 

[cheap_newbie]

i agree that it is a tradeoff, since the pixel amount is the same while there is more content.
but the areas right beside the vehicle front are really important, and covering them too... i'm still not sure if the tradeoff pays off, but i think it does...as long as you can still read the license plate its enough
out of my 4 crashes...2 were/started/happened in that area (since there you are in the mirror dead angle of vehicles in front of you that are moving on neighbour lanes of the road)

 

[Belial88]

Sorry, if you would have to move the car half meter closest, you would have the same visibility, sharpness or clarity, in LS650W videos, too. I've not neither the time and neither the interess to show it to you, mathematically. Buy what you want, but just do it.

No way dude, are you looking at the same pictures as me? The DL-5 and 650w look like crap in the pics/vids niko posted. It's much more than just a half meter difference, it's a huge difference. A half meter wouldn't really be noticeable. The right side of those comparison pics/vids is night and day. It's not just a reduction in clarity, the DL5/650 have an odd tinge to it, they aren't nearly as clear a picture.

I just think it's kinda common sense, you can't take a cam that's 'decent', and then significantly increase it's viewing angle, without changing the bitrate or pixel count (or a few other small factors like cmos, sensor, etc), and still have a decent picture. Image Quality = (Bitrate x Pixel Count) / Viewing Angle. There's a few other factors obviously but they are all constant in this 650 vs vf300, gt300, etc, comparison.

Even the vf300 with a lower bitrate, has a clearly better image quality. It's not just some minor reduction in quality, the DL-5 and VF300 look awful.

He also did a g1w vs g2w vs gt300w:

the 650w looks on par with the g1w there.

I mean the best solution here is buy the powerruc panorama, GG. But we're cheaping out here by buying a $100 cam instead.

 

[ursamajor]

No way dude...

Please be so good and use this appellative to your family members.

 

[Belial88]

dont be a douchebag. People talk how they talk, I don't make fun of you because of your lack of perfect grammar. Argue the merits of the conversation.

It's unambiguous that the 650 has similar quality as the much lower quality DL-5 and G1W. If you want a panorama cam for cheap just get the G2W.

Niko even lists it as having a lower bitrate, it only has 12mb/s. So it's literally just a vf300w with wide angle, not a gt300w. So given Image Quality = (Bitrate x Pixels) / Viewing Angle, and it's got a lower bitrate, = was worse quality... as evident in the pictures. Just get a G2W if you want a cheap panorama cam. It looks pretty similar to the G2W in niko's g1w vs g2w vs gt300 comparison.

It just doesn't seem rational to pick the 650w. You aren't going to get the $180 performance of a powerruc with a $90 cam. The image quality is so bad on the 650w, just get 2x DL-5s for a simliar price and even more viewing angle, or a G2W if you really need panorama. You just aren't going to get detail + panorama at $100. Maybe for day it's good, but so is G2W.

----------------------------------------------------

So niko, before I make the plunge on a vf300 from foxoffer ($2 cheaper at aliexpress from shenzhen givoe but since you insist on foxoffer so much...), I see that you've tried almost every GT300w clone.

Have you noticed any noticeable difference between any of them in regards to video quality, build quality... or anything? Obviously, varying form factors and the unnoticeable fact of the vf300w being 12mb/s.

Do any of the models stand out to you, as either good or bad?

And why are you trying so many out? Because they are all identical so you just try a different clone for each different car (or whatever reason you have for needing so many cams)?

This goes to anyone who's tried multiple gt300w clones, really.

 

[cheap_newbie]

well i saw the ls650w at sadles few days ago for only ~75$... thats not 90! ...thats very close to g2w
and in my opinion in this review the picture quality of ls650w(and of vf300w) at night, looks quiet better than from g1w/g2w, the day picture quality is equal though
thats why i currently consider them both better pick than g1w/g2w
night is really where g1w/g2w are lacking.... although they are really superior for their price

the ls650w and vf300w appeared only recently while the g1w/g2w are around since juli...so we have to reevaluate
by quality i mean not any numbers or calculations, but what you see with your eyes in the videos and pictures

or am i wrong? is their picture quality worse than g1w/g2w?

 

[Belial88]

Eh, I guess if you are a daily driver, only drive at day, and want something a little more than a simple k6000 or even g1w, maybe 650 is okay as basically an improved g1w/g2w. I guess if you need more quality, like if you drive a lot at night like I do, then you might go for the vf300w instead. I can see that.

It's hard to tell how it compares to g1w/g2w because they are not straight comparisons like the g1w vs g2w vs gt300w and vf300/gt300/dl-5/650 vdieos, but when I looked at it (i downloaded them too), it seems to me the 650's quality is similar to the G1W and better than the G2W.

I mean g2w suffers same issue vs g1w as 650 vs vf300w. Slightly wider angle, at similar quality = much reduced image quality. In the case of the 650, it's significantly worse than the gt300w since lower bitrate too, but i guess it's more fair to compare to vf300w since it's only slightly more expensive.

 

[ursamajor]

Your analysis is "limping". Look why: the low quality of the images/video taken by niko with his unit of LS650W isn't due to the compression, but to the OPTICS, or to the lack of SHARPNESS (less probable). The lens seems to not have been fine tuned. Other units on the Youtube (don't forget YT compression) proven to capture better videos. In the first image the objects from background seems sharper than in foreground, speaking about LS650W.

VF300W




LS650W





PS: Please note the huge advantage of reading number plates on vf300w in the night... lol
PPS: I'm just hopping to receive a good and tested unit, as Bill Know (Foxoffer) said, talking to me in privat and on Skype.

 

[cheap_newbie]

well i have still the impression that both of these night footage are definitely better than g1w/g2w
reading license plates with g1w or g2w at night is impossible....if youre at distance the picture has too much noise....if you come closer the the reflection of your light on the license plate prevents it from being readable
g1w/g2w has at night way too much noise

 

[Belial88]

Look why: the low quality of the images/video taken by niko with his unit of LS650W isn't due to the compression, but to the OPTICS, or to the lack of SHARPNESS (less probable).

wut? Of course, the optics aren't there because it's the same bitrate and pixels trying to take in more information. The wider lens means bigger picture, lower quality. It's just a truism. It's pretty clear in those images the quality is worse on the 650, and I'd trust niko's direct comparison more than random youtube videos. Not even going by niko being more informed, but simply on merit of running the 2 cams at the exact same time capturing the same scene.

Take a camera, then put a fish eye lens or wide angle lens on it. Images are going to be less detailed, as evident if you take an object and blow it up in paint, than the normal lens. Likewise, a microscoping lens has way more detail because it's same pixels in a much smaller area, but you lose more viewing area ofc.

I mean I can see the 650 being basically a step up from the g1w/g2w and you care more about panorama than quality, like if you are more of a day driver. Just a trade off of quality vs viewing area, a big one, but if you just drive day it's not a big deal I guess.

 

[ursamajor]

Please don't give me lessons about optics, sensors and compression. The compression allocate more bits for bright areas and less for dark areas. The samples photos extracted from LS650W videos should be at least as clear/sharp as the VF300W's because in LS650W pictures there are large dark areas, beeing available more bits for bright areas. Therefore I suspect a broken lens, or even a dirty lens. It's not about the small details, but about the global detail who is blurred on LS pictures.

 

[Belial88]

The samples photos extracted from LS650W videos should be at least as clear/sharp as the VF300W's because in LS650W pictures there are large dark areas, beeing available more bits for bright areas.

That makes no sense. The dark areas are the same, because it's not the same dark area made larger, it's fewer pixels to represent the same area. And the ratio of light to dark changes in all the shots, and it's consistently clear throughout the video that the 650 is way worse quality than vf300w. It's like you are deluding yourself into thinking a $75 cam can do what only $200+ cams can come close to doing, and overlooking the obvious, blatant truth. It's a significantly lower quality cam, and I think to say that niko's testing methodology is the problem, and trust random, awful youtube videos that aren't even direct comparisons, is just making excuses for what you is BS if I've ever seen it. I dont need to teach you about optics or tell you why the image quality is lower, just look at the pictures and it's obvious it's lower quality.

It's been said over and over, the image quality is sacrificed for the panorama. It's up to you whether that is acceptable or not, I guess 650w is a nice step up from G1W/G2W and quality is less important, like you only drive day, but there is no doubt that the 650 is much lower image quality than the 300w.

 

[ursamajor]

It's clear for me that you don't get it at all and have a fixation... Maybe when my camera will arrive I'll do some tests myself.

 

[Belial88]

Niko posted pictures, but you think HE did something wrong, not random youtube videos with no direct file download. You make up a completely goofy and inane reason as to why the picture quality is bad (the ratio of light to dark? seriously? It's the same for both cams given the number of pixels and same time recording...). It's pretty basic physics. Put a fish eye on the same cam and the image quality goes down, as evident in the comparison pics. There's no way it's going to be equal video quality to vf300w, everyone has already told you.

I'll throw up pics/vids of my cam too. I don't think it'll really be relevant since we'll be filming different areas and lighting, but maybe a big enough difference for you to see the truth.

 

[ursamajor]

1. I believe you're sick, man. I never said that niko did something wrong, but I said that it's possible he tested a bad/defective unit of LS650W. Don't put in my mouth words that I didn't speak.
2. I don't waste my time to illuminate you how the compression algorithms work in darker and brighter areas.
3. You confound the notion of detail with sharpness.
My discussion with you ends now.

 

[cheap_newbie]

well i have now a ls650W, a g1w and a vf300w
some friends ordered them...
what can i say... after looking at the videos, yes the wide angle of the 650w is great.... but you were right, more information on same amount of pixels makes the video more fuzzy
that means you can see less details sharp... you need to be much closer to a vehicle to be able to read its number plate, and in general there is a impression of less details and some fuzzyniess everywhere...
you cann see and recognize everything, but if you need to read something then you need t o be much closer for it being readable as with g1w or vf300w

the quality of vf300w is a little better as g1w....but im not sure if its woth the 15$ higher price
im at loss currently... how to evaluate it, its more a tradeoff as i expected
vf300w(+better picture +better looks -15$ higher price) <- > g1w(+cheap) <-> 650w(+wider angle -comparable to g1w but fuzzy)

 

[niko]

well i have now a ls650W, a g1w and a vf300w
some friends ordered them...
what can i say... after looking at the videos, yes the wide angle of the 650w is great.... but you were right, more information on same amount of pixels makes the video more fuzzy
that means you can see less details sharp... you need to be much closer to a vehicle to be able to read its number plate, and in general there is a impression of less details and some fuzzyniess everywhere...
you cann see and recognize everything, but if you need to read something then you need t o be much closer for it being readable as with g1w or vf300w

the quality of vf300w is a little better as g1w....but im not sure if its woth the 15$ higher price
im at loss currently... how to evaluate it, its more a tradeoff as i expected
vf300w(+better picture +better looks -15$ higher price) <- > g1w(+cheap) <-> 650w(+wider angle -comparable to g1w but fuzzy)

I had G1W about 4-5 month ago, when very first model appeared on China market. For the price its sells now ( ca. 52usd ) its very good deal, but of course vf300w has a little bit better video, especially at night. Also better ( stronger ) bracket mount on the dash camera body side, where you insert ( slide in ) suction cup mount part ( if you know what I mean ). My opinion, si that it is worth of adding extra approx 15 usd to buy vf300w, its only skipping couple of pints in the pub , Also for vf300w there are more alternative brackets out there than for g1w.

 

[321]

well i have now a ls650W, a g1w and a vf300w
some friends ordered them...
what can i say... after looking at the videos, yes the wide angle of the 650w is great.... but you were right, more information on same amount of pixels makes the video more fuzzy
that means you can see less details sharp... you need to be much closer to a vehicle to be able to read its number plate, and in general there is a impression of less details and some fuzzyniess everywhere...
you cann see and recognize everything, but if you need to read something then you need t o be much closer for it being readable as with g1w or vf300w

the quality of vf300w is a little better as g1w....but im not sure if its woth the 15$ higher price
im at loss currently... how to evaluate it, its more a tradeoff as i expected
vf300w(+better picture +better looks -15$ higher price) <- > g1w(+cheap) <-> 650w(+wider angle -comparable to g1w but fuzzy)

That is funny - I ordered a LS650W and a VF300W while owning a G1W, too - still awaiting them to arrive.
I will compare them side by side on my own and I will place the LS650W into our car with the short hood (city car) and will use the VF300W in our car with the long hood (BMW).
I will try to update the G1W with the LS300W firmware and see if the image quality enhances by the firmware.

I think the wider angle of view of the LS650W will be good for city driving.

 

[cheap_newbie]

same thoughts, and the wider angle of the 650w is really undeniable soemething!
but in direct comparison you see there is a little trade off for that angle, the 650w lens makes the objects in its view a little smaller to fit everything... so while with g1w you can for example already read a vehicle number plate in front of you or besides you, its still fuzzy on 650w and cant be acurately read until you come closer(you may never have the chance to come close enough due to speed differences or traffic lights or if the other party turns into another direction)
in city its sometimes a lot about number plates... if you cant record them, and someone flees from an accident youll have specially because its city less chances to find the vehicle without the number

personal preferences decide which one is better, the 650w and g1w have nearly same picture quality, 650w is a little better at night and the wide angle although the fuzzyness of details may reset that advantage over g1w depending on use case
the 15$ extra for vf300 are in my opinion not really worth the product, the design is better but quality of vf300 is comparable to g1w, i wouldnt buy it for that difference after having it in my hands ... but the design and looks are definitly superior to both g1w and 650w and its more stealthy due to its complete black even around the lens

german number plates are really bad for dash cams, too small letters and the reflexion of your lights at night makes them unreadable... better weh had yellow ones with bigger text