A139 Pro Road Trip - to HDR or not to HDR?

Just rushed through all the posts and although the videos do look awesome on the HDR TV connected to a laptop, I don't think it was mentioned that the Viofo A139 Pro doesn't record HDR content at all?
It merges two pictures with different exposure into a single SDR picture and calls it "HDR", since it captures a higher dynamic range. But it doesn't really have anything to do with capturing a single picture directly with 10 or 12 bit depth.

I get that you can stretch it out to look similar to a true HDR capture or rather like a RAW picture being edited for a 12 bit display that has enough brightness range.
But it's still mixing the two different meanings of HDR in my opinion.
And I'm not sure if there's enough detail in a 8-bit "merge" picture to look similar to a single frame 10/12-bit picture, when being stretched out.

A bit similar to standing in the middle of an orchestra in an awesome concert hall, then recording it with a stereo microphone and then running a surround sound generating tool over the recording, which tries to interpret the different reverbs and sound shapes due to the different direction the instruments came from and places them onto the different speakers of a 7.2 setup.

It can sound awesome, but it's really not the same imo.
 
Just rushed through all the posts and although the videos do look awesome on the HDR TV connected to a laptop, I don't think it was mentioned that the Viofo A139 Pro doesn't record HDR content at all?
As JardaB says, bit depth and HDR are different things, you can record HDR in 8 bit, 10 bit, or 12 bit. 12 bit is often used for professional video cameras so that there is enough detail for editing and still have good 10 bit colour resolution, 10 bit is the standard for HDR consumer products such as HDR TVs, and 8 bit is rarely used for HDR but is the standard for SDR. The bit depth is the colour resolution, not the dynamic range.
It merges two pictures with different exposure into a single SDR picture and calls it "HDR", since it captures a higher dynamic range. But it doesn't really have anything to do with capturing a single picture directly with 10 or 12 bit depth.
Merging multiple exposures into a single frame also is not HDR, multiple exposure frames can be done with SDR or HDR. In dashcams the aim of having multiple exposures is normally to record a larger dynamic range than can be recorded with a single exposure, with the added advantage that the top part of the dynamic range has less motion blur than it would with. a single exposure. Note that the A139 Pro can easily record a large dynamic range without using multiple exposures, so both HDR On and HDR Off settings do produce a much larger dynamic range image than fits into the official definition of SDR. Also, it is not necessary for a multi-exposure frame to have a larger dynamic range than a single exposure, you may use the multi-exposure purely to reduce motion blur in the top part of the range.

Dynamic range is measured in nits, 1 nit being 1 candlepower, 100 nits being the brightness of a standard SDR cathode ray tube (CRT) display, 1000 nits being the brightness of a good quality modern LCD screen, 16000 nits being the brightness of the sun. The A139 Pro always overexposes the sun, often over exposes the brightest parts of clouds, oncoming headlamps at night tend to be at maximum exposure rather than overexposed, so the A139 Pro has approximately a 1000 nit range - the standard HDR range for HDR TVs. It certainly records a range far larger than can be displayed on an old CRT screen, the standard for SDR, so yes, it does record in HDR all the time, and if you turn the HDR setting On then you get "Multiple-Exposure HDR", the name of which doesn't fit in the menu so is shortened to just "HDR"!

And I'm not sure if there's enough detail in a 8-bit "merge" picture to look similar to a single frame 10/12-bit picture, when being stretched out.
There is plenty of detail for dashcam use, it can look a little pixelated when converted from 8 to 10 bit if displayed on good equipment in good lighting, your eyes can't see the difference between 10 and 12 bit anyway. The only problem I see with copying an 8 bit file into a 10 bit file is that when it is then compressed by Youtube, Youtube sees the pixelation as an actual image feature, which can result in compressed Youtube video being significantly more blocky than necessary. It would be better to upload it to Youtube as an 8 bit HDR file, but I have never managed to get Youtube to accept such a file, it seems to like HDR10 files.

A bit similar to standing in the middle of an orchestra in an awesome concert hall, then recording it with a stereo microphone and then running a surround sound generating tool over the recording, which tries to interpret the different reverbs and sound shapes due to the different direction the instruments came from and places them onto the different speakers of a 7.2 setup.
The A139 Pro is recording HDR brightness levels, at 8 bit colour resolution, it is HDR. It then stores the video in a file marked as an SDR file, which is definitely incorrect, but it does make it playable and editable on everybody's video players and editors, there would be lots of problems if it didn't. In future I'm sure we will see dashcams that record proper HDR files, with very similar content, maybe with 10 bit colour resolution which would be nice for both road trip movies and compatibility, but for dashcam use 10 bit is not actually needed and a bit of a waste of space. The important thing for recording sunny days and reflective licence plates lit by bright headlights at night is the high dynamic range, and we actually already have that in the A139 Pro.

and although the videos do look awesome on the HDR TV connected to a laptop,
Yes, that is how they should look, a sunny day with bright white clouds in the mountains should look awesome, and far far brighter than you can display on an old CRT screen that is the definition of SDR. The A139 really does record High Dynamic Range video, and it is best viewed on a 1000 nit HDR screen. The process of actually viewing it in HDR is a bit more complex than it should be, but it is worth doing.
 
@Nigel hope you don’t mind me posting this question in your HDR thread, but didn’t want to start a new thread just for this. There is a Reddit member claiming that the A139 Pro has some form of autofocus built into the sensor. Anyone heard of this and/or are familiar with this? Reddit thread is linked below.

Just to conclude this, Bill (Viofo) replied to the reddit thread and the A139 Pro does not have any kind of auto focus.
 
Back to the HDR then...

Here is another "Road Trip" from the mountains in HDR (use your HDR screen, and view in the Youtube App if on a mobile device), driving straight up into the sun. Quite impressive how easily the Viofo A139 Pro can read plates that are in full shadow when a bright daytime sun is in the centre of the frame, but even more impressive is the lack of any lens flare in this clip! Not sure how it does this, every other dashcam I have used driving directly into the sun fills the image with green or red lens flare disks and lens reflections, which on the lesser cameras often make plates unreadable.



And another clip, this time driving away from the sun, 600 meters not as the crow flies!

 
I corrected a bug in my conversion to real HDR format that was causing Youtube uploads to look wrong on some devices, this now appears to work properly?

Recorded on A139 Pro at 60Mb/s bitrate, uploaded to Youtube in H265 4K 60fps HDR10 widescreen 21:9 format.
(If viewing on a phone, you may need to view in the Youtube app to see it in real HDR, otherwise best viewed in the Chrome browser.)

@Panzer Platform - Given that you were saying that 45Mb/s is insufficient for 4K on the A139 Pro, what average bitrate do you think this 60fps 10 bit file uploaded to Youtube had?



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Given that you were saying that 45Mb/s is insufficient for 4K on the A139 Pro
Don’t you go putting words in my mouth Mister. lol
I never said; “45Mb/s is insufficient for 4K on the A139 Pro”
I said I only recommend the A139 Pro in 1-Channel configuration because in 3-CH configuration all 3 channels drop to 24fps, and in 2-CH configuration the FRONT camera’s 60 Mbps bitrate is reduced to 45 Mbps.
C’mon, don’t be misquoting me like that man. lol

And why did you upload this in 4K60fps, when the A139 Pro is only capable of 4K30fps?
This is false & misleading to potential consumers.
You are doing a disservice to Viofo.
If a consumer buys an A139 Pro after looking at this video, they will be disappointed to learn the camera is NOT capable of 4K60fps.
What is the world is going on?
You should put a disclaimer in the description box of this video saying it is heavily edited, and modified, and is not a true representation of what the average consumer can expect from his camera.
-Chuck
 
You should put a disclaimer in the description box of this video saying it is heavily edited, and modified, and is not a true representation of what the average consumer can expect from his camera.
Heavily edited?
Not a true representation of what the average consumer can expect from his camera?

Of course the original is better, it was recorded at 60Mb/s, while this Youtube upload was only at 9.4Mb/s, and then Youtube reduced the bitrate even more; but I wouldn't say it is heavily edited, and it was definitely recorded on an A139 Pro, it has the model stamp at the bottom, so clearly the A139 Pro is capable of recording it...

Ohh, and I included the above frame grabs so that people can see the genuine original quality ;) ... or are those heavily edited as well?

Maybe I will do an actually edited version next, see if I can improve things a bit...
 
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Heavily edited?
Not a true representation of what the average consumer can expect from his camera?
Anything other than uploading the original raw file to YouTube is "edited".
Converting the footage from 30fps to 60fps is false & misleading, (you're basically lying to the viewer).
I get your point, the A139 Pro can make beautiful HDR videos, especially with all the post production editing, and effort you are putting into it.
You are setting up the average consumer for disappointment.
Just like waking up next to a one night stand the next morning, and you see her without makeup, and you're not drunk in a dimly lit night club. lol
 
I get your point, the A139 Pro can make beautiful HDR videos
That was the point of this thread, along with a discussion on how to get the most beautiful movies out of tthe A139 Pro - To use HDR or not to use HDR, along with any other tricks to get the best road trip movies, such as uploading the video to Youtube at 60fps instead of 30fps.

To suggest that you can only ever use unedited, unmodified and unconverted footage is misleading!
And to suggest that it was heavily edited, when I have never loaded it into a video editor, also seems a little misleading!
 
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