Can I have some tips on improving the view please?

[Nigel]

Not entirely sure if she or I was in the wrong there, I assume her as I'm in the correct lane all the way round. I think! Doubting myself now, even though I drive that way practically every day and I rarely have people trying to drive across me.

Different people will have different opinions on that, but I think the law would be on her side since it was you that made the lane change, she was staying in the lane she was already in. If you read the highway code then you will find that it specifically mentions allowing people to continue around the roundabout, they are not guaranteed to get off at the first exit just because they are in the left lane, the only exception would be if there was a white lane separator that guided them off and they drove over it which was not the case here.

Remember that what happens on roundabouts in the rush hour on a weekday will be different to what happens on a Saturday, many of the people on the road on Saturday do not know which lane goes where so if you want to avoid accidents it is best to go at the same speed as the lanes either side of you - don't overtake on roundabouts unless you like taking risks and then if it doesn't pay off blame yourself whatever the legal position since you could have avoided it.

One of the main advantages of dashcams - you can look back at things and work out how you could have avoided incidents like this.

 

[ThingInTheAttic]

Different people will have different opinions on that, but I think the law would be on her side since it was you that made the lane change, she was staying in the lane she was already in.

One of the main advantages of dashcams - you can look back at things and work out how you could have avoided incidents like this.

I see. Yes, it's definitely good to see who did what, I think I need to re read the highway code. I'm quite anal about things like this! i'm most definitely NOT a risk-taker, at least notintentionally- I didn't drive at all for about ten years because I developed a phobia about driving after an accident (not my fault) where I had to be cut out of the car, but I forced myself to overcome it when I had my son as I wanted to be able to take him on day trips etc easily and not rely on the husband for lifts all the time. I'm quite proud that I did totally get over it with refresher lessons and will now drive pretty much anywhere without stressing. But maybe I am becoming TOO complacent!
Don't understand quite what you mean about me changing lanes, though. Do you mean when I leave the roundabout? Is that classed as changing lanes? The lane I was in leads off down that exit, as does the one she was in, there are white guidance dots. I didn't cross into another lane, I just left the roundabout in the lane that I was in. Also, I wasn't deliberately overtaking her-she joined the roundabout as I approached her, at a slower pace than I was already going... But in that scenario I can see that I should probably have slowed up and let her go first.

Looking back, she's indicating right as she joins the roundabout- I would have taken that to mean she does actually want to take what would be her right-hand exit, in this case the third, as I did- therefore, she should have waited till I had passed and then joined my lane behind me, not gone in the left hand lane and tried to drive around. But then, if both lanes give you the option of carrying on around the roundabout AND leaving it at my exit, it is confusing I guess. Who knows... I just tend to stay in that right hand lane and leave in that same lane, as in the past when I have moved into the left hand lane just before exiting (to avoid the possibility of that exact thing in the video happening )I've had a bloke flash his lights behind me and wag his finger at me for changing lanes! Can't win

 

[Nigel]

Don't understand quite what you mean about me changing lanes, though. Do you mean when I leave the roundabout? Is that classed as changing lanes? The lane I was in leads off down that exit, as does the one she was in, there are white guidance dots. I didn't cross into another lane, I just left the roundabout in the lane that I was in.

The roundabout appears to have 2 lanes all the way around, separated by lane markings with long dashes, you drove over those dashed markings in order to leave the roundabout, thus changing lanes.
Because you were changing lanes you had to give way to traffic already occupying the lane you were going into. There are also guidance dots for the turns, but they were not forcing her to leave the roundabout at that exit, the lane she was in continued around to the next exit and she was entitled to follow it all the way around the roundabout several times if she wanted. At that turning she had 3 valid lanes that she could take without having to give way because there were no lane separators for her to drive over, only the guidance dots, you only had one that you could take without giving way and it wasn't the one you wanted to take.

When you first saw her, you were in her blind spot, she couldn't easily see you, so the wise thing to do would be to stay behind her until it was obvious which lane she was going to take, if she was taking the same lane as you then slot in behind her, if you had your indicator on then the bus would have given you room. You will never save much time by passing people on a roundabout, unless they are stopped, being safe can save a lot of time if you avoid an incident.

She was indicating right because she was changing lanes into the path of the bus. Indicators are guidance, not proof of which direction someone will go.

 

[ThingInTheAttic]

Blimey. Very well explained, thank you. I appear have no idea what I'm doing! Roundabout refresher needed pronto.

I still think that if she is indicating right at the roundabout, though, then that 'indicates' (not guarantees) that she intends to take the right hand exit, so therefore she should go into the right-hand lane. Surely left lane is for left or straight on over, right lane for turning right?

 

[Nigel]

Blimey. Very well explained, thank you. I appear have no idea what I'm doing! Roundabout refresher needed pronto.

I still think that if she is indicating right at the roundabout, though, then that 'indicates' (not guarantees) that she intends to take the right hand exit, so therefore she should go into the right-hand lane. Surely left lane is for left or straight on over, right lane for turning right?

Here is the official highway code: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code

Although I doubt you will find much on guidance dots as used on South Wales roundabouts in there!

And even if you get it right, there are plenty of other people who don't, so the important thing is avoiding an incident, whoever is at fault. Roundabouts work through cooperation, not through everyone sticking to the word of the law as they drive around.

I don't understand your last paragraph, doesn't seem to make sense, might need a diagram.

 

[ThingInTheAttic]

I don't understand your last paragraph, doesn't seem to make sense, might need a diagram.

Ok, I don’t think I explained it very well. In your previous message, you said that she was indicating right because she was changing lanes into the path of the bus. I thought you meant that was the only reason she was indicating right. Whereas I took her indicating right to mean that she wants to go round the roundabout to the right- and therefore she should have moved into the lane I’m in, after giving way to me-because that’s the correct way to use the roundabout.
The junction she is joining the roundabout at has three lanes - the left lane for exiting the roundabout at the next left only, the middle for straight on (over, across) the roundabout and the right for taking the
third or fourth exit, which is the one I’m in because I’m turning right. However, she’s coming into the roundabout from the left hand lane, whilst clearly indicating right and moving from the left lane in front of the bus - because if she doesn’t get in front of the bus she’ll be forced to take the first exit left. That’s a solid white line she’s crossing to get in front of the bus, and the bus was in the correct lane. So, she’s approached the roundabout in the wrong lane- (she's in the left lane, but is indicating right)-but instead of giving way to traffic already on the roundabout and allowing the bus to move on in front of her, she’s driven on alongside the bus, thenhad to drive across the solid white line quickly, to get in front of it to be able to carry on around. I think she should have waited, then moved into the bus's lane behind it, then moved into my lane, behind me if she wants to go right.

This pic explains what I mean: if you want to turn right you join the roundabout in the right hand lane (green car), indicating right and then indicate left as you approach the exit you plan to leave at. The green car is me, this morning, that’s exactly what I did.
She joined where the white car is at the top of the pic, which is for next left only on the real roundabout - but was indicating right.
So I think therefore, knowing she was in the wrong lane to start with, she should have given way to both the bus and me, because she needed to cross into the lane the bus was in. And actually should have gone into my lane behind me, not stayed on my left. Because she is indicating right. Rules 184-90.

But i do totally concede that I should have gone slower than her to see what she was going to do.

 

[ThingInTheAttic]

The length of, and detail in my last message-over a complete non-incident- has just shown me how pedantic and anal I am, and why I always thought i'd make a good lawyer

 

[Nigel]

The length of, and detail in my last message-over a complete non-incident- has just shown me how pedantic and anal I am, and why I always thought i'd make a good lawyer

I'm not convinced that good lawyers make great drivers
Roundabouts need cooperation, not strict rules.

 

[ThingInTheAttic]

I'm not convinced that good lawyers make great drivers
Roundabouts need cooperation, not strict rules.

Actually, I think they need both rules and cooperation. Ok, not STRICT rules but they’d be total chaos if there were no rules at all. I’m all for cooperation- I let people out of junctions, I don’t block yellow boxes etc- but I like rules too.

Just as well I’m not actually a lawyer then! My chance to improve my roundabout driving is not lost

 

[niko]

She had right to follow roundabout in the left lane without taking "nearest exit".
Better safe than sorry.

 

[wozzzzza]

this happens way too much, people just dont understand round abouts, especially on 2 laned round abouts, the number of people i see turning right from the left hand lane at round abouts when both go straight ahead is amazingly high, even when theres a plainly painted obvious straight ahead arrow painted on the road int he left lane and a straight and right hand arrow in the right lane, people just dont think about outcomes and possible scenarios that can happen.

 

[kamkar]

The funny thing are, if you are in doubt in a round about you can just do another lap of it as it is free of charge.

 

[wozzzzza]

The funny thing are, if you are in doubt in a round about you can just do another lap of it as it is free of charge.

with the inside wheel spinning creating a smoke cloud so everyone stops for you and you can exit safely.