Cop kicks biker, biker gets 180k$

[jokiin]

Nobody drives to kill bikers.

not in the literal sense but I do understand the mindset of 'you should ride like everyone is out to kill you' as that is something that was taught when I was younger, not because people are intentionally out to get you but that you should ride defensively, the other term that was popular was 'ride like you're invisible because to most cars you are' which really is just about never assuming that others see you so you should do everything possible to avoid them, try and read the traffic, what might happen further up ahead and how others may respond etc so you can stay out of harms way, I do the same even when driving a car which is I guess a habit from riding bikes

from a similar mindset I had a friend that was a helicopter pilot and when he was training every lesson began with the instructor telling him they were going to crash, not because they were of course but they had to go up with the mindset that it was going to happen and they had to be ready for it

 

[old4570]

Actually , some people do target bike riders and murder them ...
There is a case in the USA right now ... Saying it does not happen is just ( input my favorite word ) ...
I have seen for myself , people actually try and use their car as a weapon and use it to try and kill ...
I have seen it , experienced it , and honestly believe too many car drivers are capable of being murdering scum ..
If you can't accept that , thats fine ... But that's not me having a problem ...
What did they say in that movie ...

You can't handle the truth !

Im not going to excuse car drivers for their appalling driving skills , there total lack of spacial awareness , or their unsafe driving habits . ( Or bike riders )
Almost every time I have had a close call , and pulled the driver up on it the excuse was " But I didn't see you "
When my friends tell me about their accidents , the excuse from the car driver was almost always , " I didn't see you "
Negligence is not and excuse , it does not justify anything ... Every time I hear that excuse , I can't help but feel that one is listening to a very dangerous idiot ...
I am a car driver , and I speak for all car drivers when I say , pull your head out of your ass !
Every time I get in the car , I remind myself of how dangerous it can be .. And I tell myself not to be stupid ... Stay sharp and focused ...
And then I get on the road and I see people being down right homicidal ... And I should what ? Commend them on their excellent driving ( wow you made it from point A to B without killing anyone )
The road toll is just the ultimate expression of stupidity , the 2nd best expression is the number of people needing hospitalization ...
And the 3rd one , the oops ! That never gets recorded ... SO how many acts of stupidity are there in a year ?

Official figures show the number of people killed on Australian roads last year rose by a 4.9 per cent -- with 1209 fatalities recorded ( 2015 )

• For 2016 to August, there have been 869 deaths (provisional). This is 71 deaths (8.9%) higher than the same period last year.
• A continuous series of population rates for annual hospitalised injuries is only available for the decade to 2011. During this time, annual hospitalised injuries per 100,000 population increased from 143.4 to 151.7. This is 30 times the rate for fatalities.
• Mr White, who has been in "after-licence driver training" for 26 years and has taught thousands of drivers how to improve their safety behind the wheel, said "we won't fix the road toll with enforcement alone".
  "It's time for a shift in attitude," said Mr White. "When it comes to learning how to drive a car, people get a basic pre-school level of education and then authorities expect them to perform at university level on the road. You should never stop learning." He said it was a "miracle" the road toll was not higher than it is today.
• "We see every day just how bad a lot of drivers are out there. It's a miracle the road toll isn't worse," said Mr White. "The reason the road toll is not higher is because roads have improved and car safety has improved."

Anyhow , learning anything ?
So these figures are reported figures , so what about all the close calls and minor lapses in sanity or concentration ..
Would it possibly be unfair to say that in my country there may be several million oopsie's every year ..
And who commits these oopsie's ? Does everyone take a turn ( quite plausible ) ..
Or perhaps there is a smaller group of people who can't drive for ****e , and are responsible for far more than their share ... ( also plausible )
I would even dare say its that a lot of people are simply lucky to be alive and that there breathing privileges have nothing to do with skill .
If I was a police officer , I don't think I would get very far from the station , and my day would be very very busy ...
And I am speaking for Melbourne Australia when I speak about idiot drivers , and for those times I have driven through Sydney ...
The reason I don't post more vidz , I just don't want to get in the car ... Even walking is risky ... Especially around 4pm when the duche bags come home from work .
They dont want to and will not stop for anything , especially pedestrians ( never mind the pedestrian has right of way ) , they will not stop ... That is attempted murder ...... Premeditated !
I have even seen first hand Police fail to give way to pedestrians , the Police ! Professionals who should know better , so obviously stupid has no bounds ... ( No lights or sirens , just going shopping in the police vehicle ) That's crazy !
What possible excuse could there be for endangering a pedestrian by failing to give way as required by law ?

I even went looking for one of these ass holes one day .. Just brushed my knee failing to give way and driving way fast cutting the corner and laughing all the way ... I Went home got in my car , and went looking for him ...
If I had found him , it would have been nasty for both of us ....
Do I hate car drivers , yes I do ... Selfish , dangerous , stupid , homicidal maniacs ....
But of course I'm not talking about anyone here !

 

[kamkar]

I did a little experiment .. I rode to work and back home from work ( peak hour ) at exactly the speed limit

If you do that here no matter what you are driving you will be passed by 99 out of 100 cars coming up from behind, but funny enough the 1 guy that come up from behind ( indicating he is over the limit ) will see that he is in the wrong and stay behind.

BUT ! 99 out of 100 may be pushing it
Mostly trucks coming up from behind stay behind, and thank god as it is scary to be passed by one of these on a Danish 2 lane highway and the truck only doing 3 km/h more then the 80 you are doing.

 

[SawMaster]

The real world problem with this solution is that, essentially, you're giving the 'bad guys' a pass on any realistic enforcement. Ride a bike and get away with murder.

Nobody is saying to 'give them a pass', just that when it's obvious that you're not going to catch them, then end the chase immediately. Most Cops have tunnel-vision when they get fixated on the goal of catching a bad guy and that endangers the Cop too. Everyone needs to drive with eyes and minds wide open to all the possibilities all of the time without cessation.

There is plenty of blame all around, bad bikers, bad Cops, and bad drivers. The largest category by far is the drivers, so that is where any improvement will reap the biggest benefits overall. Bikers who ride like fools usually get caught out by their own actions sooner or later, and they often pay a high physical price for that. Car drivers acting like fools more often than not escape unscathed or with only minor injuries. Cops who act like fools are given a free pass to do that in the US; they never personally receive an equal effect to what they gave. At worst their department gets sued successfully, insurance covers their losses, and that Cop's next scheduled pay raise becomes questionable, but rarely do they get fired or jailed. If they only get fired there's a very good chance they will find work in a smaller PD somewhere else and take their frustrations out on the citizens there in an even larger way.

The solution is better training and testing for all, with far stiffer penalties for the fools. Driver training should include more focus on avoiding and handling emergency situations and dealing with idiot drivers (and riders), and should eliminate those who don't handle that well. Something of a psychological screening like airline pilots are subjected to. If you can't handle driving well you should be stuck with being a pedestrian; not everybody can handle driving correctly. Cops should go through 10X this; their position in our society demands that they can deal with everything they encounter as perfectly as possible- not just handle it well enough. Once again not everybody is cut out for that kind of thing. Riders (motorized cycles or not) should have more focus on their vulnerability trained, and they should be more heavily punished for foolish behavior on the roads because they are causing the rest of the road users to take action to avoid them creating a dangerous situation that goes beyond their smaller size.

People think I'm nuts, but the fastest way to safer roads is to eliminate the chance of any driver or rider surviving a crash. If you knew a bomb under your seat would kill you in any crash no matter who was at fault, you'd do all that you could to avoid a crash wouldn't you? I know I would, and that is the necessary level of care everyone con the road should have. Accidents do happen and there would certainly be some loss of innocent life but even then there would be a huge drop in the death rate and crash rate. I try to drive like that now because nothing less is acceptable behavior on the roads where everybody's life is as dependent on the behavior of everyone else as it is their own.

Most people will not act responsibly unless that is forced to happen; humans naturally crave the ability to do whatever they want without personal consequence. We must somehow cause good behavior from everybody on the roads or things will only get worse. That good behavior has to include Cops too- there cannot be any allowance for endangering other road users period. One standard for all, no exceptions.

Phil

 

[Feitelijk]

You can't handle the truth !

So how about those statistics?
Motorcyclists take more risks than car drivers, whilst their protection is less. This results in a 25 times higher lethality per driven kilometer.
As 60% is their own fault simle arithmatic tells me that they die at least 15 times more by their own fault per travelled mile than car drivers.

And still they have the nerve to tell car drivers they have to be careful for them, and are trying to kill them?

 

[Module 79L]

I do as well, but I think a lot of that has to do with also being a rider not just a driver

I lost count of the times I had to be alert, while riding, for my sake and for the sake of the oblivious drivers around me, who completely missed things happening right in front of their eyes.
I've been riding longer than I drive and when I started driving more regularly one thing I really hated from the beginning was to be distracted while driving. I don't answer the phone and I'm a lousy "host" for my passengers because I hardly ever engage in conversation with them. And when I do it's either a short one or I stop in the middle of my train thought because I have to pay attention to something driving-related. One time someone asked me if I had some speech impairment because of that!

There is a lot of hate for cyclists in particular and I have to say quite a few of the haters are young, when I was a kid everyone rode their bikes everywhere and I think once you become a driver you're very aware of what it's like on the road, the current 'Gen X-box' drivers that grew up playing video games instead of being out riding a bike seem to rage the hardest on cyclists, I'm sure some of that has to do with not getting out on bikes as kids

I'd say it has to do with something else...

 

[Module 79L]

If a biker thinks all other drivers are in a mission to kill him, he needs to quit riding a bike and see a psychiatrist.

I agree with many of the things @old4570 is saying but I don't believe responsible motorcyclists think EVERY driver is out to get them when they're riding. In fact, I personally encounter more potentially harmful drivers when I'm driving than when I'm riding.

 

[Module 79L]

If you knew a bomb under your seat would kill you in any crash no matter who was at fault, you'd do all that you could to avoid a crash wouldn't you?

Phil

My hope is that dashcams can become that "bomb".

 

[Rajagra]

I'm not going to continue any argument but I'll point out to those who've shown they don't understand this :

Smaller vehicles are harder to see than larger vehicles. They will ALWAYS go unseen more often. REGARDLESS of attitude or level of attention. They will always need to exercise additional caution if they don't want to accept the additional risk.

Or they can take risks and bitch that everyone is out to get them. Their choice.

Edit. Above is doubly true if they are going at greater speed than other vehicles, and / or changing position frequently and rapidly. It's not because other people are setting out to kill them, IT'S BECAUSE THERE IS LESS OPPORTUNITY TO BE SEEN.

Of course there ARE some mad people about who will deliberately attack others using their vehicle without provocation. But (at least in civilised nations) they are very very rare. If you think you are seeing such people every day I think you are the common factor and maybe you are the problem. But if you aren't, I suggest you move neighbourhood. You are surrounded by psychos, and they are a threat whether they are in a car or not.

Sent from my tap-to-talk using Tapatalk

 

[SawMaster]

I took some huge risks riding but I was always aware that I had chosen that, and if things went wrong it wasn't going to be their fault any more than mine if they bore any fault at all. I can expect someone to see a bike going 30MPH and not pull out in front of them. I cannot expect them to see that bike if they're going 130MPH, and they probably won't. The sad reality is that most drivers aren't looking for or much caring about things which aren't likely to do them harm. A child running out into the street is much smaller and harder to see than a bike, so if someone doesn't see a bike do you really expect that they would see that child? That is the required level of attention for being a road user and anybody who is not giving it that much attention should not be allowed to operate any vehicles on the road. I have missed seeing bikes coming out of the sun myself even though I was looking for them, but I saw them on the second look and I do not act without that second look (and a third look if the situation allows that). Everyone knows to look twice but few drivers take that to heart and make a habit if it

The rider shouldn't expect to be seen either way even though that is supposed to happen- that is one of your most important defenses when you ride. Even though it is widely spoken of, many riders don't take it to heart. It is one thing to know something but another thing entirely to act on what you know. It's not the knowledge that makes the difference but the action or lack of it

Phil

 

[DT MI]

Nobody is saying to 'give them a pass', ...

Neither did I. But what happens in the real world is effectively doing that - and the street smart bad guys know it and will certainly take advantage of it.

I live in S.E. Michigan (not Detroit) and it seems like every week there are reports of someone being injured as a result of a police chase - even after the chase has been terminated. Is that the fault of the LEO or the 'bad guy' trying to get away?

The liberal media (and unfortunately far too many citizens who will be sitting on juries) will have you believe the fault lies exclusively with L.E. and that all police pursuits should be banned. The same media (and citizens) would be the first to blame L.E. when the already dismal crime rate in major cities escalates because there would be zero chance of being apprehended if they use a motor vehicle of any sort to effect your escape.

Now I'm off to look for private islands for sale (and to contract with 'the Donald' to build a wall around it)...

 

[Rajagra]

My serious, first accident was as a learner. I was riding along the main road at a steady 30mph (100cc trail bike, it could do 35 going flat out on a good day.) I approached a crossroads. One car was waiting on the left side road, one on the right. I was some distance away and I was the only vehicle on the main road. It took a fair while to reach them, and they remained motionless.

Now I had heard plenty of "Sorry I didn't see you" stories and was prepared to assess the situation. They had had plenty of time and good visibility to see me, and I was the only reason for them not moving. So they must have seen me right? Wrong. At the very last second the one nearest me pulled out and I couldn't avoid hitting it.

Sure, I was angry. I would've attacked the driver, but it was a woman so I didn't.

The point of all this is I didn't just get angry, I LEARNED FROM IT. Whenever I approached a junction from then on I positioned myself to maximise my visibility and so I could respond if someone pulled out - no matter how certain I was that they wouldn't.

I went on to have other minor spills. The next at 15mph, the next at 5mph. I got better and better at avoiding accidents and reducing their impact. That's what I was taught to do by experienced riders. IT WORKS!

What I see today just makes me sad. So many bikers taking stupid risks, staying angry, refusing to learn, refusing to take responsibility, refusing to understand that they can make themselves safer EVEN WHEN OTHERS ARE IN THE WRONG.

And what's even more baffling is how such an attitude is widely considered acceptable, even their right, and how people openly promote it, because "my rights, my rights." It's Darwinism gone viral.

Sent from my tap-to-talk using Tapatalk

 

[country_hick]

In unfamiliar territory with hills and curves even inside a car or truck you can miss a cop behind you. It happened to me once. It happened to a buddy for a few miles too.

If you knew a bomb under your seat would kill you in any crash no matter who was at fault, you'd do all that you could to avoid a crash wouldn't you? I know I would, and that is the necessary level of care everyone con the road should have.
Phil

If it will kill me I can accept that. If it would injure and disable me for life that is different.

I have already have an injury that if I get into a serious crash could cause me extreme pain and put me in a wheelchair. Death would be preferable. I cruise around carefully because I am aware of that fact.

I refused to get a motorcycle because I realized how many people do not see them. I figured it was safer to be in a car. I have a grand marquis because it is a big car which means it is a heavier and safer car.

 

[Module 79L]

So many bikers taking stupid risks, staying angry, refusing to learn, refusing to take responsibility, refusing to understand that they can make themselves safer EVEN WHEN OTHERS ARE IN THE WRONG.

And what's even more baffling is how such an attitude is widely considered acceptable, (...)

Maybe in the UK but it's not widespread. I, for one, don't accept that BS attitude from ANY road user, no matter how many wheels their vehicle has. I don't call every driver a "cager" or every rider a "biker", only the ones with that attitude deserve the title.

I started riding back in the late 80's, early 90's, when motorcycles began to appear in larger numbers on the portuguese roads. That wasn't well received at all by the large majority of drivers. For almost a decade there was literally a "biker hunt" in Portugal, with lots of crashes caused on purpose, with deaths (that was the time period when my friends were killed) and life-changing injuries. That's when the term "cager" was introduced.
As expected, this action created a reaction and many motorcyclists started retaliating with even more stupid actions, causing the situation to escalate, and causing drivers to start acting the same way towards any motorcyclist. That's when we, the responsible motorcyclists, introduced the term "biker", to set us apart from the riffraff.
Fortunately for the portuguese motorcyclist's community, the majority of the motorcycle clubs took the civilized approach, casting aside anyone with a biker attitude, and step-by-step, litlle-by-little, drivers started to realize that not all motorcyclists are the same. The "war" was over and the peaceful coexistence began.
Nowadays, drivers making way for motorcycles in stationary traffic on urban areas or in slow moving traffic on the roads is the norm, not the exception, and even bikers (yes, they're still around, old habits never change) know that they don't need to bully their way between traffic and usually they behave much better in those situations than before. This doesn't also mean there aren't cagers anymore: yes there are and we all know what car brands they drive. The difference is that these ones have "The Attitude" towards anything that moves.

 

[Rajagra]

Maybe in the UK but it's not widespread.

I can only speak for London tbh. The permanent congestion means the idiots get a chance to show themselves often.
There is an odd effect where cyclists copy what motorcyclists do (but they don't have the speed or acceleration to get away with it) and motorcyclists are starting to copy the bad habits of cyclists. Basically they're all thinking "well those guys can do it, I'm going to do it too."

There is a huge divide between learner and 'grown up' bikers. The learners really do act like cyclists, doing whatever they want whenever they want. I suspect they are the ones that can't pass their test, and don't even want to.