Dash Cam Reliability

[TonyM]

It sells cameras.

Sad but true

I don't think good image quality sells cameras like it used to

 

[Dashmellow]

Sad but true

I don't think good image quality sells cameras like it used to

Good image quality is so yesterday! These days it's bells, whistles and shiny objects. It's not that image quality is poor but striving to improve it seems to have taken a back seat to the other things I've mentioned because nowadays it's features that sell cameras.

As you know, some of us dash cam old timers would take superior image quality, good sound and bullet proof reliability over practically anything else.

 

[SawMaster]

These days it's bells, whistles and shiny objects.

I think you're right. I've watched many dashcam reviews on YouTube and most of the comments are about how they love the features and they think the vids are great too, even when those are 1080P poorly done. When I comment about the poor vid quality and recommend a similar much better cam there's either silence or comments about "my" cam's lack of features which "their" cam has. Rarely do I get any meaningful dialog in return. Used to be mostly about wifi, now it's about the cloud. I don't wish bad luck on them but if they ever need their footage, they will then learn the value of vid quality and reliability over anything else a cam does.

Phil

 

[HonestReview]

Good image quality is so yesterday! These days it's bells, whistles and shiny objects. It's not that image quality is poor but striving to improve it seems to have taken a back seat to the other things I've mentioned because nowadays it's features that sell cameras.

As you know, some of us dash cam old timers would take superior image quality, good sound and bullet proof reliability over practically anything else.

Priority #1 is reliability and image. Priority #2 is useful features. Unfortunately, I am not convinced station mode will work well on the A139. If the cameras risk overheating already, then Station Mode is most likely going to exacerbate that issue.

That said, Station Mode when properly functioning, has a lot of value added benefit. A person can remote to their car at any time from anywhere in the world, and "look at what's been going on".

Peak in on the mechanic. See your car in an airport parking lot. Check to see if you hear noises outside while your car is parked down the street. Etc etc.

 

[HonestReview]

I think you're right. I've watched many dashcam reviews on YouTube and most of the comments are about how they love the features and they think the vids are great too, even when those are 1080P poorly done. When I comment about the poor vid quality and recommend a similar much better cam there's either silence or comments about "my" cam's lack of features which "their" cam has. Rarely do I get any meaningful dialog in return. Used to be mostly about wifi, now it's about the cloud. I don't wish bad luck on them but if they ever need their footage, they will then learn the value of vid quality and reliability over anything else a cam does.

Phil

Given the choice of a solid Dash Cam that properly captures license plates, has a clear image, and doesn't cause me to worry over reliability versus a feature packed pile of garbage. Well the choice is clear. I want a camera that covers my ass when / if the time comes over one that will give me crap image or freeze at random.

I'm 2 out of 2 right now. First accident caught on a So-SO Dashcam but luckily it was day time. Second accident caught on Viofo A129. In both instances, the videos saved me a LOT of headache!

 

[Dashmellow]

Priority #1 is reliability and image. Priority #2 is useful features. Unfortunately, I am not convinced station mode will work well on the A139. If the cameras risk overheating already, then Station Mode is most likely going to exacerbate that issue.

That said, Station Mode when properly functioning, has a lot of value added benefit. A person can remote to their car at any time from anywhere in the world, and "look at what's been going on".

Peak in on the mechanic. See your car in an airport parking lot. Check to see if you hear noises outside while your car is parked down the street. Etc etc.

I think you're glossing over the point I've made. Priority #1 has still never really been met. I've been using dash cams for 11 years now, going back to when you had to order a generic one direct from China because nothing else existed. There were no commercial "brand names" like Viofo back then, nor customer service. And forget returning a failed or DOA dash cam to China. Since then and even now, despite improvements, dash cams have proven to be the most unreliable, problem prone category of consumer product I have ever experienced! I have owned or had experience with dozens of dash cams and there has never been one that has been without some sort of problem, issue or failure. I've spent more time and effort trouble shooting dash cams than any other product I can think of. Some are better than others but sooner or later most of them have crapped out.

Many new features that have been introduced over the years are very enticing but as I've seen more and more features introduced, cameras have just become bloated with features that only make matters worse. Some features are superfluous, useless and inherently unreliable in dash cams such as ADAS. And more often than not WiFi is a PITA on dash cams. Just scan these forums to see how many reports there are of connection problems, poor apps or impracticable slow speeds. I find WiFi useful for aiming cameras with no screen but otherwise I don't bother with it at this point.

Even GPS is of minimal value. While it is fun to watch your journey on a dynamic map and track your speed and location, the fact is that for the most part this info is of little or no value in a court of law because it is inadmissible evidence. It's more entertainment than anything else.

And just scan these forums to see how many, many times people report they've discovered after an accident that the footage they needed wasn't captured or wasn't unusable!

Time and time again we've seen manufacturers focus on adding new features to dash cams to entice new buyers when their products have known flaws that still need to be fixed, such as overheating, focus issues, file corruptions, image quality that needs improvement and a whole range of reliability issues.

Like I said earlier, many of us who have been using dash cams since the beginning feel the same way. Dash cams are a mission critical product. First give us a dash cam that has superb image quality, great audio and absolute reliability. Give us the bells and whistles like station mode later, after you've solved Priority #1.

 

[HonestReview]

I think you're glossing over the point I've made. Priority #1 has still never really been met. I've been using dash cams for 11 years now, going back to when you had to order a generic one direct from China because nothing else existed. There were no commercial "brand names" like Viofo back then, nor customer service. And forget returning a failed or DOA dash cam to China. Since then and even now, despite improvements, dash cams have proven to be the most unreliable, problem prone category of consumer product I have ever experienced! I have owned or had experience with dozens of dash cams and there has never been one that has been without some sort of problem, issue or failure. I've spent more time and effort trouble shooting dash cams than any other product I can think of. Some are better than others but sooner or later most of them have crapped out.

There are flaws in the Viofo A129 Duo. Duped frames. We're not making cinematic movies with Dash Cameras, and while annoying, isn't a deal breaker. I've yet to have ANY problems out of the Viofo A129. That sucker works in the hottest of hot days and coldest of cold. So I would sufficiently label this product to be very reliable. Especially since I own one and also installed one in my mother's vehicle. Both work flawlessly.

The A139 remains to be seen. I'm not having the best luck, so the jury is out if it's just my unit is faulty or a symptom of a much bigger issue.

Many new features that have been introduced over the years are very enticing but as I've seen more and more features introduced, cameras have just become bloated with features that only make matters worse. Some features are superfluous, useless and inherently unreliable in dash cams such as ADAS. And more often than not WiFi is a PITA on dash cams. Just scan these forums to see how many reports there are of connection problems, poor apps or impracticable slow speeds. I find WiFi useful for aiming cameras with no screen but otherwise I don't bother with it at this point.

ADA's are marketing gimmicks. Honestly, Good Image + Reliability should remain every dash camera manufacturer's focus. Side features can only be implemented after priority #1 is met. If someone hits my car while driving or parked, I want to know the incident is recorded. Not worry if my camera functioned that day. I've been hit twice and both caught on camera. One So So Brand that was my first foray into Dash Cameras (Cansonic), and then the other instance was using the A129 Duo.

Even GPS is of minimal value. While it is fun to watch your journey on a dynamic map and track your speed and location, the fact is that for the most part this info is of little or no value in a court of law because it is inadmissible evidence. It's more entertainment than anything else.

And just scan these forums to see how many, many times people report they've discovered after an accident that the footage they needed wasn't captured or was unusable!

Time and time again we've seen manufacturers focus on adding new features to dash cams to entice new buyers when their products have known flaws that still need to be fixed, such as overheating, focus issues, file corruptions, image quality that needs improvement and a whole range of reliability issues.

Like I said earlier, many of us who have been using dash cams since the beginning feel the same way. Dash cams are a mission critical product. First give us a dash cam that has superb image quality, great audio and absolute reliability. Give us the bells and whistles like station mode later, after you've solved Priority #1.

I disagree. GPS's on Dash Camera's are vital. It can show you where an accident took place on the video. There's software out there that'll show your route use the video's meta data. Helpful if an incident or accident occurs in an unfamiliar area.

Users often reporting incidences with poor results fall into a few categories:

1. Bought a low end Dash Camera that uses upscaling or offered sub par video / performance.
2. Got hit while parked by a vehicle rapidly speeding away (Motion Blur)
3. User error / Improper Setup / Utilizing settings not recommended (Motion Detection Vs. Low Bitrate). Motion Detection has always been hit and miss.

Far as the A139 and video corruption goes, again, I'm getting a replacement camera since others have yet to replicate my issues. I'll soon knkow if my camera has a problem or Viofo's A139 series has issues.

I agree. Two Accidents. Both caught on Camera. I want to know if someone hits my car, there's no "He Said She Said". Like in Accident #2 with the Viofo. Insurance tried to tell me "not other person's fault". I laughed, sent video, and insurance company STOPPED LAUGHING. And went into "Shock and Disbelief Mode".

 

[Dashmellow]

There are flaws in the Viofo A129 Duo. Duped frames. We're not making cinematic movies with Dash Cameras, and while annoying, isn't a deal breaker. I've yet to have ANY problems out of the Viofo A129. That sucker works in the hottest of hot days and coldest of cold. So I would sufficiently label this product to be very reliable. Especially since I own one and also installed one in my mother's vehicle. Both work flawlessly.

The A139 remains to be seen. I'm not having the best luck, so the jury is out if it's just my unit is faulty or a symptom of a much bigger issue.



ADA's are marketing gimmicks. Honestly, Good Image + Reliability should remain every dash camera manufacturer's focus. Side features can only be implemented after priority #1 is met. If someone hits my car while driving or parked, I want to know the incident is recorded. Not worry if my camera functioned that day. I've been hit twice and both caught on camera. One So So Brand that was my first foray into Dash Cameras (Cansonic), and then the other instance was using the A129 Duo.




I disagree. GPS's on Dash Camera's are vital. It can show you where an accident took place on the video. There's software out there that'll show your route use the video's meta data. Helpful if an incident or accident occurs in an unfamiliar area.

Users often reporting incidences with poor results fall into a few categories:

1. Bought a low end Dash Camera that uses upscaling or offered sub par video / performance.
2. Got hit while parked by a vehicle rapidly speeding away (Motion Blur)
3. User error / Improper Setup / Utilizing settings not recommended (Motion Detection Vs. Low Bitrate). Motion Detection has always been hit and miss.

Far as the A139 and video corruption goes, again, I'm getting a replacement camera since others have yet to replicate my issues. I'll soon knkow if my camera has a problem or Viofo's A139 series has issues.

I agree. Two Accidents. Both caught on Camera. I want to know if someone hits my car, there's no "He Said She Said". Like in Accident #2 with the Viofo. Insurance tried to tell me "not other person's fault". I laughed, sent video, and insurance company STOPPED LAUGHING. And went into "Shock and Disbelief Mode".

You can pick and choose what camera flaws you want to talk about but focusing on your limited personal experiences with a small handful of cameras is missing the broader points that I made. And so much of your posting to this forum since you arrived here has been some form of complaining about your cameras, sometime vehemently which speaks to my point about how problematic dash cams have a tendency to be.

And I feel your analysis about what categories "Users often reporting incidences with poor results fall into a few categories" is simply a matter of your own perceptions, speculations and experiences but not necessarily the reality among the broader dash cam community.

Again, I think you are missing the point as there are far more examples of different types camera failures, poor video results and varied reasons for this to occur over the many years I've had of observing this.

People often report discovering nothing being recorded at all at the critical moment for example, and the reason is not "user error". Dash cams sometimes have a bad habit of crapping out at the worst possible moment when you least expect it. I could tell you a few unpleasant stories and I would hardly be the only one to do so. For example, I once had an incident occur a few minutes before returning home only to discover that the very last file of the day with the incident on it didn't get saved because the super-cap in my camera had failed while I was on my way home.

I'm glad we agree on a few things but one way or another either Priority #1 is fully realized or it isn't. Anything else is indeed just rationalizing that everything is "good enough".

 

[HonestReview]

You can pick and choose what camera flaws you want to talk about but focusing on your limited personal experiences with a small handful of cameras is missing the broader points that I made. And so much of your posting to this forum since you arrived here has been some form of complaining about your cameras, sometime vehemently which speaks to my point about how problematic dash cams have a tendency to be.

I think you missed my point entirely. While I may not have owned / tested dozens of Dash Cams, that doesn't mean my experiences are null and void. All Dash Cams (like computers, phones, and other technology) have their quirks.

What I'm pointing out is you're overly broad generalization that Dash Cams are not reliable. I disagree. There are some well made products that people seem happy owning. One example is the Viofo A129. Never owned a Street Guardian, but feedback on those seems generally positive.

Does that mean these cameras work perfectly? Hell No! But they do work reliably in the sense that I would expect my Viofo A129 to capture an event without letting me down. I've yet to see any reports on this model failing, overheating, or having numerous failures.

And I feel your analysis about what categories "Users often reporting incidences with poor results fall into a few categories" is simply a matter of your own perceptions, speculations and experiences but not necessarily the reality among the broader dash cam community.

Everything we speak of here is perception based upon our own experiences.

It's quite clear there are multiple segments of Dash Cam Owners:

1. People who are new and unfamiliar with Dash Cameras - Supercapicitor vs Lithium Battery. Assuming A resolution is True and not "Upscaled". Etc. All the caveats that come with having never used a product.

2. You then have a segment who through inexperience complain their product doesn't work. When in fact the product itself is fine, but it boils down to user error. User error DOES NOT make a bad product. Improper hardwiring, failure to enter park mode, camera stops recording, can all be related to various faults. Not selecting the right fuse, not correctly crimping the fuse taps, selecting an improper fuse, using an incompatible memory card, etc et.

3. Then of course, you have people here who have tested DOZENS of models and have their feet wet.

This is generalization of course, but what I am alluding to is that failure doesn't mean fault. Failure of a product to work can be attributed to inexperience or a bad product. We cannot assume, and I feel that you are making broad assumptions.

Again, I think you are missing the point as there are far more examples of different types camera failures, poor video results and varied reasons for this to occur over the many years I've had of observing this.

People often report discovering nothing being recorded at all at the critical moment for example, and the reason is not "user error". Dash cams sometimes have a bad habit of crapping out at the worst possible moment when you least expect it. I could tell you a few unpleasant stories and I would hardly be the only one to do so. For example, I once had an incident occur a few minutes before returning home only to discover that the very last file of the day with the incident on it didn't get saved because the super-cap in my camera had failed while I was on my way home.

I'm glad we agree on a few things but one way or another either Priority #1 is fully realized or it isn't. Anything else is indeed just rationalizing that everything is "good enough".

Again, See above. Yes, there are "Good Products" and "Bad Products" just like any market. Yes, the Dash Cam Market doesn't have conglomerate companies putting out products, outside of Garmin. Most Dash cam makers are not Global Names. You mention Viofo, Street Guardian, Thinkware, or Blackvue outside of the Dash Cam community, and a MAJORITY of people would have Zero idea about these products.

Failures occur for many reasons. What you have accused me of, you're doing right now. Citing "Anecdotal Experiences" about Failure of Dash Cams to capture Critical Moments, and then making an overly broad generalization.

Look you got Good Products and Crap Products. It's the consumers job to do research. When I cite the A129 Duo as a good product, it's based on my experience, and this forums review of the product, and user feedback. Not just my own perception.

Caveat Emptor. Cars, Cell Phones, Televisions, all have low end Junk Products, Middle of the Road Lines, and High End lines. To expect someone spending $50 or 40 Euros on a Dash Camera and expecting a good product is asinine. Then again, someone buying a $600 USD or 500 Euro Thinkware / Blackvue does expect quality.

Price, Brand, etc all play into quality and reliability. Are Dash Camera's Perfect? No. However, are there very good models available? Yes. Are these Models without flaws, gimmicks, and hiccups? Definitely not. But I doubt we'll ever see a PERFECT line of Dash Cameras that never fail. We don't see such a high level of perfection with any product!

Personal Opinion Only: What disappoints me the most is when a Higher End Brand releases a product with GREAT POTENTIAL, Bloats it with Unnecessary Features, and the product is less than ready for Market. Sounding Good on paper but crapping out in every day use.

 

[Dashmellow]

I think you missed my point entirely. While I may not have owned / tested dozens of Dash Cams, that doesn't mean my experiences are null and void. All Dash Cams (like computers, phones, and other technology) have their quirks.

What I'm pointing out is you're overly broad generalization that Dash Cams are not reliable. I disagree. There are some well made products that people seem happy owning. One example is the Viofo A129. Never owned a Street Guardian, but feedback on those seems generally positive.

Does that mean these cameras work perfectly? Hell No! But they do work reliably in the sense that I would expect my Viofo A129 to capture an event without letting me down. I've yet to see any reports on this model failing, overheating, or having numerous failures.



Everything we speak of here is perception based upon our own experiences.

It's quite clear there are multiple segments of Dash Cam Owners:

1. People who are new and unfamiliar with Dash Cameras - Supercapicitor vs Lithium Battery. Assuming A resolution is True and not "Upscaled". Etc. All the caveats that come with having never used a product.

2. You then have a segment who through inexperience complain their product doesn't work. When in fact the product itself is fine, but it boils down to user error. User error DOES NOT make a bad product. Improper hardwiring, failure to enter park mode, camera stops recording, can all be related to various faults. Not selecting the right fuse, not correctly crimping the fuse taps, selecting an improper fuse, using an incompatible memory card, etc et.

3. Then of course, you have people here who have tested DOZENS of models and have their feet wet.

This is generalization of course, but what I am alluding to is that failure doesn't mean fault. Failure of a product to work can be attributed to inexperience or a bad product. We cannot assume, and I feel that you are making broad assumptions.




Again, See above. Yes, there are "Good Products" and "Bad Products" just like any market. Yes, the Dash Cam Market doesn't have conglomerate companies putting out products, outside of Garmin. Most Dash cam makers are not Global Names. You mention Viofo, Street Guardian, Thinkware, or Blackvue outside of the Dash Cam community, and a MAJORITY of people would have Zero idea about these products.

Failures occur for many reasons. What you have accused me of, you're doing right now. Citing "Anecdotal Experiences" about Failure of Dash Cams to capture Critical Moments, and then making an overly broad generalization.

Look you got Good Products and Crap Products. It's the consumers job to do research. When I cite the A129 Duo as a good product, it's based on my experience, and this forums review of the product, and user feedback. Not just my own perception.

Caveat Emptor. Cars, Cell Phones, Televisions, all have low end Junk Products, Middle of the Road Lines, and High End lines. To expect someone spending $50 or 40 Euros on a Dash Camera and expecting a good product is asinine. Then again, someone buying a $600 USD or 500 Euro Thinkware / Blackvue does expect quality.

Price, Brand, etc all play into quality and reliability. Are Dash Camera's Perfect? No. However, are there very good models available? Yes. Are these Models without flaws, gimmicks, and hiccups? Definitely not. But I doubt we'll ever see a PERFECT line of Dash Cameras that never fail. We don't see such a high level of perfection with any product!

Personal Opinion Only: What disappoints me the most is when a Higher End Brand releases a product with GREAT POTENTIAL, Bloats it with Unnecessary Features, and the product is less than ready for Market. Sounding Good on paper but crapping out in every day use.

All this verbosity is all just a lot of gobbledygook if you ask me!

I greatly value and appreciate dash cams and would not be without one at this point 11 years in. I have five running in my vehicle at all times. But Dash cams as a category of consumer product are indeed the most unreliable and problem prone I have ever encountered in my lifetime. Sure, some are more reliable and offer better image quality than others, but problems, issues, glitches, hassles and failures of all kinds are the norm, not the exception. THAT'S the point.

To repeat. Priority #1 - consistently excellent image quality, clear detailed sound and absolute mission critical reliability is a standard that has simply never been met to date. This is not my perception or anecdotal; it is a simple fact!

In large part, the lack of absolute reliability is because dash cams are built to the standard of plastic cased consumer gadgets rather than true cameras. For example, if dash cams were built to the standards of CCTV cameras which use essentially the chip-sets and sensors as dash cams and which run full time - 24/7 for weeks, months and years on end in all kinds of harsh conditions and temperature extremes without failure we would be much closer to Priority #1.

 

[HonestReview]

All this verbosity is all just a lot of gobbledygook if you ask me!

I greatly value and appreciate dash cams and would not be without one at this point 11 years in. I have five running in my vehicle at all times. But Dash cams as a category of consumer product are indeed the most unreliable and problem prone I have ever encountered in my lifetime. Sure, some are more reliable and offer better image quality than others, but problems, issues, glitches, hassles and failures of all kinds are the norm, not the exception. THAT'S the point.

To repeat. Priority #1 - consistently excellent image quality, clear detailed sound and absolute mission critical reliability is a standard that has simply never been met to date. This is not my perception or anecdotal; it is a simple fact!

In large part, the lack of absolute reliability is because dash cams are built to the standard of plastic cased consumer gadgets rather than true cameras. For example, if dash cams were built to the standards of CCTV cameras which use essentially the chip-sets and sensors as dash cams and which run full time - 24/7 for weeks, months and years on end in all kinds of harsh conditions and temperature extremes without failure we would be much closer to Priority #1.

There's nothing better than someone who goes on a diatribe that ultimately answers their own question.

A quality CCTV easily runs 1000 Dollars / Euros and upwards of several thousand Dollars / Euros. People buying Dash Cams typically spend a few hundred dollars / Euros. At the upper cusp (Thinkware / Blackvue) Maybe around 500 Dollars / Euros.

So you're expecting a Dash Camera to have the same build quality and reliability as a CCTV system but for 1/3 to 1/2 the price of a lower end CCTV system. With a dash camera costing 1/4th or 1/5th of a CCTV system on the higher end.

Unrealistic expectations.

Respectable Dash Cam companies are more interested in making an affordable "Good Product" than a very costly "Great Product". The crap companies care less about even achieving "Good".

 

[Dashmellow]

There's nothing better than someone who goes on a diatribe that ultimately answers their own question.

A quality CCTV easily runs 1000 Dollars / Euros and upwards of several thousand Dollars / Euros. People buying Dash Cams typically spend a few hundred dollars / Euros. At the upper cusp (Thinkware / Blackvue) Maybe around 500 Dollars / Euros.

So you're expecting a Dash Camera to have the same build quality and reliability as a CCTV system but for 1/3 to 1/2 the price at best on the load end. With a dash camera costing 1/4th or 1/5th of a CCTV system on the higher end.

Unrealistic expectations.

Dash Cam companies are more interested in making an affordable "Good Product" than a very costly "Great Product".

You can buy quality CCTV cams for the same price as a decent dash cam or less! One of my modest price CCTV cameras that is extremely well built from cast aluminum with components on a rigid high quality metal chassis has been running 24/7 for 12 years now. I paid 150 dollars for that one. Your claim that a consumer level CCTV camera costs 1000 dollars is nonsense! There is one source I use for CCTV dash cams where I bought two very high quality vandal proof cast aluminum dome cameras for 46 dollars each. They have been running three years now, trouble free.

Get your facts straight!

 

[HonestReview]

You can buy quality CCTV cams for the same price as a decent dash cam or less! One of my modest price CCTV cameras that is extremely well built from cast aluminum with components on a rigid high quality metal chassis has been running 24/7 for 12 years now. I paid 150 dollars for that one. Your claim that a consumer level CCTV camera costs 1000 dollars is nonsense! There is one source I use for CCTV dash cams where I bought two very high quality vandal proof cast aluminum dome cameras for 46 dollars each. They have been running three years now, trouble free.

Get your facts straight!

Where did I say Consumer Level? I parroted your phrase of "QUALITY" and absolute mission critical reliability. Consumer Level Systems are not at the "Foolproof" level of quality you're demanding. Just like Dash Cameras, you can find some good, reasonably priced, CCTV systems that won't break the bank. However, to demand ABSOLUTE Quality and Near Perfection comes at a price. And the price for a industrial standard CCTV system is not what a Consumer Dash Cam Costs.

I'd bet manufactures have the ability to make an absolute mission critical, reliable dash camera. But I doubt most consumers would willingly spend the necessary funds to guarantee the 99.9% success rate of industrial level Dash Camera when a 90% success rate consumer level camera is already available, affordable, and costs far less money.

 

[jokiin]

I'd bet manufactures have the ability to make an absolute mission critical, reliable dash camera. But I'm not sure most consumers would willingly spend the necessary funds on a 99.9% success industrial level Dash Camera when a 90% success rate consumer camera for far less money is available and affordable to purchase.

Panasonic make them, mostly used by law enforcement, they start at around USD $4000, even if money was no object finding someone that found the size or video quality for consumer use acceptable is unlikely

 

[Dashmellow]

Where did I say Consumer Level? I said QUALITY. Consumer Level Systems are not at the "Foolproof" level of quality you're demanding. Just like Dash Cameras, you can find some good reasonably priced CCTV systems. However, to demand ABSOLUTE Quality and Near Perfection comes at a price. And the price for a industrial standard CCTV system is not what a Consumer Dash Cam Costs.

As I keep saying, compared to ANY other category of CONSUMER product I have ever had experience with dash cams are the most problem prone and unreliable, yet at the same time they are a mission critical product that people try to rely on to protect themselves. I have dozens of cheap consumer products that work as good as new after years of abuse and have never had a single user issue or glitch but not so with dash cams.

You are changing the subject and moving the goal posts if you are going to start talking about 1000 dollar cameras.

You know, the funny thing about the position you are taking here is that from your very first post since joining DCT you have done nothing but loudly piss and moan about problems with your dash cams including complaining that you received a Viofo A129 Duo that was defective (Kept randomly freezing) then went on to complain that, "my replacement camera up and running...But still notice a a major quirk." Indeed, practically every thread you have ever started on this forum is to complain about problems with your dash cams.

This is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about in regard to the reliability of dash cams and their tendency to be problematic consumer products and it comes from your very own complaints, yet now you want to take a self-righteous position and argue with me from a contrary position.

You are indeed an inherently argumentative person and it gets tiresome for all involved.

 

[HonestReview]

Panasonic make them, mostly used by law enforcement, they start at around USD $4000, even if money was no object finding someone that found the size or video quality for consumer use acceptable is unlikely

Duly Noted. I overlooked that police use Dash Cameras. But the point remains true, your general consumer wouldn't spend $4000 on a Dash Camera to guarantee absolute, mission critical, reliability. Police also utilize body cameras, too. I'd guess these are just as pricey.

 

[Dashmellow]

@HonestReview,

You continue to miss the points of the original discussion. The point here isn't a "guarantee" of absolute reliability, it was that manufacturers are focusing on new features while leaving flaws, glitches and problems unresolved. In this case it was "station mode" which seems very appealing but at least for now, it doesn't really do much of anything practical while in the meantime the camera has heat issues and other reported problems.

If manufacturers focused more on insuring image quality and reliability rather than new features then dash cams would not be among the most problem prone, unreliable consumer products on the market. When you sell a product that is as mission critical as dash cams, reliability and image quality should be the primary goals and new features should come later. You may not be able to "guarantee" absolute reliability but that is what manufacturers should strive for.

 

[HonestReview]

As I keep saying, compared to ANY other category of CONSUMER product I have ever had experience with dash cams are the most problem prone and unreliable

Subjective and anecdotal. Similar to my A129 Duo being a "Good Camera". This is your opinion and not fact.

Yet at the same time they are a mission critical product that people try to rely on to protect themselves. I have dozens of cheap consumer products that work as good as new after years of abuse and have never had a single user issue or glitch but not so with dash cams.

And there are dozens of cheap, consumer level products out there that work like crap. For instance, Seagate Hard Drives are horrible in my personal experience. I know people who wanted lots of storage, at the cheapest price, and Seagate Hard Drives fit the bill. Unfortunately, they are horrible quality and don't stand up to the rigors of daily usage by dying prematurely. Not just one, but many. I tell people to avoid this brand at all cost.

You get what you pay for in the truest of sense. Sure, you can sometimes find "Cheaper Products" that work well, but generally, cost and quality go hand in hand.

Cheapest Cars on the market often come at the sacrifice of Quality, Reliability, Performance, Safety, and Customer Service.

Cheapest TV's on the market often come at the sacrifice of picture quality, build quality, and long term reliability.

Again, there may always be an exception but exceptions are not the norm!

@jokiin aptly pointed out, you can get a Dash Camera that offers absolute mission critical reliability for the price of $4000 (Police Level Dash Cams). Of course, most consumers will never consider spending $4000 to obtain that level of assurance.

You are changing the subject and moving the goal posts if you are going to start talking about 1000 dollar cameras.

I'm not changing the goal post. You've been stating that a Dash Camera is a Mission Critical Product and You Want absolute reliability. Which does not exist on the consumer level.

It does exist. See @jokiin's comment about spending $4000 on a Police Dash Camera from Panasonic. Consumers aren't going to pay $4000 to achieve this level of reliability. Meaning consumer grade products operate on the concept of "Acceptable Levels of Tolerance and Failures".

Which is why companies sell cheaper lines (Consumer Grade) and Industrial Lines (Business Grade) products. With pricing from A to B being considerably higher.

You know, the funny thing about the position you are taking here is that from your very first post since joining DCT you have done nothing but loudly piss and moan about problems with your dash cams including complaining that you received a Viofo A129 Duo that was defective (Kept randomly freezing) then went on to complain that, "my replacement camera up and running...But still notice a a major quirk." Indeed, practically every thread you have ever started on this forum is to complain about problems with your dash cams.

See above about Acceptable Level of Tolerance and Failures. Consumer grade products are massed produced. Industrial Grade Products are expected to perform at a certain level and are subjected to greater rigors and testing.

So yes, I received a Bad A129 Duo. Mass production includes acceptable levels of failure. Guess what? The Two (including replacement) I now own have worked perfectly without a single freeze, hiccup, or missed event. These cameras have been in service now 2 years.

Sure the A129 Duo contains an unresolved quirk (dupe frame).
Is it Annoying that Viofo hasn't ever corrected the issue? YES.
Will it affect the camera's reliability and ability to capture events? No.

Both cameras work fine and a dupe frame quirk will not harm the A129 Duo's bottom line goal. Capture an even while Driving or Parked.

This is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about in regard to the reliability of dash cams and their tendency to be problematic consumer products and it comes from your very own complaints, yet now you want to take a self-righteous position and argue with me from a contrary position.

You are indeed an inherently argumentative person and it gets tiresome for all involved.

I'm not arguing. We agree that reliability and performance are very important. Reliability and performance supersede any Gimmicky features such ASA's. Therefore, we both agree that Dash Camera manufacturers spending money on making the most reliable product versus wasting money on GIMMICKY features, is a better use of their funds.

Ultimately though, Manufacturers are interested on what sells. Long lists of features that entice consumers, even if these features are junk and come at the cost of Sacrificing Reliability. Again we agree that this is unacceptable.

Where we disagree is Consumer Level Product Expectations Versus Industrial Level Expectations.

Even if Manufacturers removed all the gimmicks and focused Research and Development (R&D) on reliable performance, two things Never Change:

1. Consumer Grade Products are Mass Produced (With given Levels of Tolerance and Failures).
2. Consumer Grade Products use cheaper components

Consumer grade products will never obtain the level of Mission Critical Reliability and Performance you're seeking due to cost.

 

[HonestReview]

@HonestReview,

You continue to miss the points of the original discussion. The point here isn't a "guarantee" of absolute reliability, it was that manufacturers are focusing on new features while leaving flaws, glitches and problems unresolved. In this case it was "station mode" which seems very appealing but at least for now, it doesn't really do much of anything practical while in the meantime the camera has heat issues and other reported problems.

Yes we agree here. Spend money on performance, image quality, and reliability over wasting money on R&D on gimmicky features.

If manufacturers focused more on insuring image quality and reliability rather than new features then dash cams would not be among the most problem prone, unreliable consumer products on the market. When you sell a product that is as mission critical as dash cams, reliability and image quality should be the primary goals and new features should come later. You may not be able to "guarantee" absolute reliability but that is what manufacturers should strive for.

Agreed, with an exception. Your statement about unreliable consumer product is "subjective". Price often determines quality, but of course is not an absolute guarantee.

You'd have lower expectations on a $50 dash camera than on a $500 dash Cam. However, that $500 dash cam (consumer grade) will never match the image quality, reliability, and performance that an industrial grade ($4000 Panasonic) offers.

This is why Consumer Grade allows certain Quirks, Failure Rates, and Tolerances that are found in Mass Production of these product lines. Along with glitches, bugs, etc.

You continue to miss the points of the original discussion..

I think you're glossing over the point I've made. Priority #1 has still never really been met. I've been using dash cams for 11 years now, going back to when you had to order a generic one direct from China because nothing else existed. There were no commercial "brand names" like Viofo back then, nor customer service. And forget returning a failed or DOA dash cam to China. Since then and even now, despite improvements, dash cams have proven to be the most unreliable, problem prone category of consumer product I have ever experienced! I have owned or had experience with dozens of dash cams and there has never been one that has been without some sort of problem, issue or failure. I've spent more time and effort trouble shooting dash cams than any other product I can think of. Some are better than others but sooner or later most of them have crapped out.

You state Dash Cameras are the worst, most unreliable, consumer grade product (personal experience and subjective). Buying the cheapest car, television, electronics, etc often yield unreliable performance and cheaper build quality. Regardless of product. - So Here we disagree.

Dash Camera performance and glitches on the consumer level should be improved! It's a shame that Big Name Global Companies have neglected the Dash Cam Market on the consumer level (Except Garmin). I think this would spur a greater awareness of building a more reliable product and incentivize manufacturers to correct known points of failure (Bugs, glitches, etc).

Unfortunately, fixing performance issues and glitches comes at a cost. Which is why we're paying a few hundred dollars / euros for a product versus 1000s. Manufacturers have reasoned that the consumer market does not support the level of Mission Critical Performance and Reliability us enthusiasts seek.

After all, the Dash Cam market is a Niche Market with a limited following. A majority of drivers do not own Dash Cameras. Meaning the incentive for Big Global Brands to enter the market is minimal. Lessening the Chances that Competition Drives research into better, more reliable, consumer grade products.

 

[jokiin]

You'd have lower expectations on a $50 dash camera than on a $500 dash Cam. However, that $500 dash cam (consumer grade) will never match the image quality, reliability, and performance that an industrial grade ($4000 Panasonic) offers.

I'm sure they're quite reliable but even at $4000 they don't give a 100% uptime guarantee, as to video quality, they're not fantastic, half of the consumer market has better video quality