Deciding on SD Size and Brand Option

[Lothar]

Why, out of curiosity? It's $30 more for a slower U1 card vs U3 for less. What's the upside?

The simple answer is that one is authorized and warrantied for dash cam use and the other is not.
*Fine print on all Samsung Evo Select cards*
"Warranty does not extend to dash cam, CCTV, surveillance camera and other write-intensive uses."

Memory & Storage Devices | Samsung USA

Upgrade your devices with Samsung memory & storage solutions. Shop high-performance SSDs, memory cards, and flash drives for reliable and fast data transfers.

www.samsung.com

It is a bit ridiculous that the maximum available in a Samsung "Endurance" card is 128GB. That's not enough for me because I want a 2K Front//1080P Rear cam and might be using parking mode extensively (at my job and other public places...not at my house)

Sandisk High/Max Endurance cards top out at 256GB and are U3 rated.
Western Digital Purple goes higher (512GB and up), but is only U1 rated. This will only be an option if I discover that I need more than 256MB which will be doubtful.
I have not done the math to see if a dash cam would be write limited by a slow U1 card or not, but perhaps someone here can do it. What minimum write speed does a 2K front/1080P rear dual dash cam require? What about 4K front/1080P rear dual one?

 

[Lothar]

Both nice cards, i have been beating the snot out of both for a year in a attempt to destroy them, so far i am loosing. 🙂
And it is the older not QD101 branded purple card i have.

Opposite to that i got a Adata endurance card some weeks ago, it did not work right out the packing as it had terrible slow speeds, but a once over with SDformatter did fix that and since then i have hit that card hard with 4K/60 footage at 100 mbit in my action camera.
Downside was finding out there was a speed problem, and then the time it take SDformatter to go over a 256 GB card.'

No matter what memory card you have, if something are not behaving, the first thing to do figuring out where the error is would be to examine / benchmark / test the memory card, or just toss in a new one if you have one handy.
When i found out my Adata was not working ( in the SG9663DR ) i did not for a second think my camera have died, but i have not tried the card in that camera after i restored it to the correct read / write speeds, but probably will some time later in the summer.

I'm guessing that this is what you have?

WD Purple microSD | Western Digital Store

Endurance is key. Fine-tuned specifically for surveillance cameras, WD Purple™ microSD™ cards allow for continuous capture—even if the network goes down.

shop.westerndigital.com

If so, they don't make a 512GB version of that.
I see that your card has a slightly higher "sequential" write speed than the SanDisk Endurance card even though they're both rated U3. I'm not sure how important that is for dash cam purposes as I've always been told to focus on "Random" read/write speeds when it pertains to SSDs/phone Memory cards/USB readers and not to sweat the "Sequential" specs stuff?

 

[Deacon]

What minimum write speed does a 2K front/1080P rear dual dash cam require? What about 4K front/1080P rear dual one?

U1 supports 100Mbps write speeds. U3 supports 300Mbps. Actual rate of writing will depend on your cam and settings. I’m not aware of any SG model that pushes anywhere near 100Mbps, which means U1 should be sufficient for that application. It’s nice to have the U3 as spares to use in other applications, though, like a 4K drone, moving data between computers (backups) more quickly, etc.

A warranty is great, but we’re talking $35 for a 256GB known good performer, or $70 for 512GB. How often are you driving road trips working that kind of space hard continuously? Many would struggle to fill 512GB once in a month. That pretty different than, say, a security camera recording 24/7/365. Even then if you were writing at 45Mbps you still wouldn’t fill a 512GB capacity card in a day. And it’s those write cycles that wear out a microSD card. Double the capacity, and you essentially halve the number of write cycles for a given time period. Double it again, halve it again.

That said, theory sometimes differs from reality. If you’re someone who commutes 90 minutes one way every day, you may make different choices than someone who spends an hour in the car a couple days per week. For me, a $35 card that works diligently for a couple years isn’t worth worrying about shipping costs and time vs a card that charges a 50% premium for a 3 year warranty. I have 128GB Evo Selects that are still going strong 4 years later, even in a 4K drone writing at 100Mbps without skipping a beat.

I've always been told to focus on "Random" read/write speeds when it pertains to SSDs/phone Memory cards/USB readers and not to sweat the "Sequential" specs stuff?

Hopefully the SG guys can chime in here with expert knowledge instead of my layman guesses, but I don’t think random writes are applicable to something like writing a continuous video stream, which sounds a whole lot more “sequential” to me.

 

[jokiin]

good quality U1 cards are still fine on all our cameras, the highest we write data currently is 42mbit/sec single channel and 58mbit/sec dual channel

 

[Deacon]

Regarding WD Purple, a friend of mine has a BlackVue DR900S-2CH that randomly reboots on him when using the 128GB WD Purple SD card in it, including twice yesterday. He started running it 20 June and got the first issue yesterday. Fluke? Who knows, but he says using the BlackVue cards he gets no such issues. Maybe warranty time for him.

 

[kamkar]

Even the best brands / models can kick you in the groin pretty fast, 2 times i almost got that right after taking the card out of the blister pack.
It is also why i focus so much on cards that have warranty for when used in dashcams, and of course buy locak to minimize chance of fakes, and ease of RMA proceedings.

 

[Deacon]

It is also why i focus so much on cards that have warranty for when used in dashcams

I'm surprised anyone is all that honest with them to say so. Why give them the opportunity to deny your claim?

 

[jokiin]

Regarding WD Purple, a friend of mine has a BlackVue DR900S-2CH that randomly reboots on him when using the 128GB WD Purple SD card in it, including twice yesterday. He started running it 20 June and got the first issue yesterday. Fluke? Who knows, but he says using the BlackVue cards he gets no such issues. Maybe warranty time for him.

Blackvue write the firmware in their cameras to work with the controller chipset that is used in their memory cards, cards with different controllers can have issues, known issue with Blackvue cameras

 

[Lothar]

Regarding WD Purple, a friend of mine has a BlackVue DR900S-2CH that randomly reboots on him when using the 128GB WD Purple SD card in it, including twice yesterday. He started running it 20 June and got the first issue yesterday. Fluke? Who knows, but he says using the BlackVue cards he gets no such issues. Maybe warranty time for him.

Blackvue write the firmware in their cameras to work with the controller chipset that is used in their memory cards, cards with different controllers can have issues, known issue with Blackvue cameras

So Blackvue is the manufacturer that does this??? 🤔

Amazon Might be Finally Doing Something About Fake Reviews - Apeman Delisted

Looks like Vantop is gone now. Still listed on Amazon.com.

dashcamtalk.com

 

[jokiin]

they are not alone, there are several brands that do this, I've only seen it from companies that supply their own branded memory cards, to be fair there is a valid argument to doing things this way, to know that the customer has a suitable card for the device, reduced support issues etc, where the brands that do this generally cop flak though is due to the prices they charge for their branded cards

 

[Lothar]

they are not alone, there are several brands that do this, I've only seen it from companies that supply their own branded memory cards, to be fair there is a valid argument to doing things this way, to know that the customer has a suitable card for the device, reduced support issues etc, where the brands that do this generally cop flak though is due to the prices they charge for their branded cards

I don't personally consider that to be a fair argument.
If that is the case, then bundle a particular class of card(ex: endurance) or a specific card(WD Purple or Samsung blah blah) that has been tested with the product; and advertise as such.

There is absolutely no need for them to put their own badge on the card.
At the end of the day, a majority of MicroSD cards are either made by Samsung, SanDisk, Toshiba, or Micron underneath regardless of whatever dashcam manufacturer badge is on the product. That's at least 80-85% of the market right there.
Blackvue, or "insert whatever dashcam manufacture here" does not make their own card, regardless of whatever badge may be on the product.

The only motive here I see is to increase their profit margin through the selling of overpriced cards with their own badge(despite it being actually made by one of the companies above that I mentioned) or denying of warranty claims...or both!

https://blackvue.com/product/microsd-card/

$184 for a 256GB card? Holy crap. You can get an equivalent top performing MLC card from Samsung or whatever manufacturer that even built that same "Blackvue" card for $50-60 max with the same exact specifications. There is no special sauce.

There is also nothing also stopping them from changing vendors on their re-badged cards from one season to the next under obscurity. That Blackvue branded card that might be made by or contain Samsung last year might be made by or contain SanDisk (or whatever 3 years from now), despite it still being advertised as the same "Blackvue" card with us not knowing.
Similar to how Apple makes iPhones with both the Qualcomm(superior) and Intel(inferior) modem, despite being sold for the same price and connecting to the same network bands. The only motive here is to increase their profit margin.

 

[Lothar]

U1 supports 100Mbps write speeds. U3 supports 300Mbps. Actual rate of writing will depend on your cam and settings. I’m not aware of any SG model that pushes anywhere near 100Mbps, which means U1 should be sufficient for that application. It’s nice to have the U3 as spares to use in other applications, though, like a 4K drone, moving data between computers (backups) more quickly, etc.

A warranty is great, but we’re talking $35 for a 256GB known good performer, or $70 for 512GB. How often are you driving road trips working that kind of space hard continuously? Many would struggle to fill 512GB once in a month. That pretty different than, say, a security camera recording 24/7/365. Even then if you were writing at 45Mbps you still wouldn’t fill a 512GB capacity card in a day. And it’s those write cycles that wear out a microSD card. Double the capacity, and you essentially halve the number of write cycles for a given time period. Double it again, halve it again.

That said, theory sometimes differs from reality. If you’re someone who commutes 90 minutes one way every day, you may make different choices than someone who spends an hour in the car a couple days per week. For me, a $35 card that works diligently for a couple years isn’t worth worrying about shipping costs and time vs a card that charges a 50% premium for a 3 year warranty. I have 128GB Evo Selects that are still going strong 4 years later, even in a 4K drone writing at 100Mbps without skipping a beat.



Hopefully the SG guys can chime in here with expert knowledge instead of my layman guesses, but I don’t think random writes are applicable to something like writing a continuous video stream, which sounds a whole lot more “sequential” to me.

Right, I didn't think there was a speed limitation from the SD Card end in any dashcam doing my "back-of-the-envelope" math. But you made an excellent point on future-proofing the card for other uses.

I do plan to use parking mode extensively (anywhere between 4-8 hours a day) at my job because we have public parking and not employee assigned spots or garages.
I have no reason for parking mode at my house. My commute is about 30 minutes one way.

You are correct that sequential speed is more applicable to dashcams.

 

[jokiin]

We include memory cards with our cameras, but they're brand name cards and we don't jack the prices on the included card

People that buy their cards separately often make poor choices, not always intentionally, fake cards are a big issue, or just poor card choice in general, often their decision was based on price as a lot of people just assume all cards are the same, from an after sales and support perspective a lot of time can get wasted over this, for that reason I see why they want to include a card, we do it by using good quality name brand cards purchased directly from the distributor so we don't have concerns about authenticity, buying them on an as needed basis means we can keep a decent price on the included card so there's no gouging, buying regularly means we're not sitting on overpriced cards either

As you correctly pointed out no camera brand makes their own cards, the quantity needed to do this means the price will never be competitive as the market shifts too quickly, for the brand's that lock their firmware down to those cards you're limited to what else will work as it needs to be using the same controller chipset in the card, controller and card firmware can vary by production lot so just because some brand name card worked for someone else with the same camera doesn't automatically mean the same card make and model will work for you, to follow this locked down firmware approach a brand name card needs to be included, most often you'll see these brands start their range with a card that is way too small to be practical for the device, some people buy the entry level version thinking they'll just buy their own larger card, sometimes they get lucky and buy a card that's compatible, other times not, when they get a non working model and it becomes a support issue they get asked about the card, when they tell them what they have they get instructed to test again with the included card, it works so they get told they need to buy the camera brand card if they want a larger card, some brands go so far as advising customers that other brand cards may damage the camera and will void their warranty, not a great end user experience

For the brand's that don't include the card but still have cameras that are finicky with cards other than their own cards they label, that's just bad design and or poor firmware implementation

 

[Lothar]

Another thing to consider here:
Samsung Pro Endurance 128GB is rated for over 43,800 hours (5.01 yrs) of recording and has a 5yr warranty.
SanDisk High Endurance 256GB is rated for 20,000 hours (2.28 yrs) and has a 2yr warranty.
SanDisk MAX Endurance 256GB is rated for 120,000 hours(13.70 yrs) and has a 13yr warranty.

These other cards are rated for as long or longer than their warranty so a Blackvue warranty of 6 months indicates that they only stand behind their card for about 4,400 hours, otherwise they would provide a better warranty.
This leads me to the conclusion that not only are their cards overpriced, but they are also inferior as well despite whatever their marketing department may claim about cards from other manufacturers.

 

[Outbacknomad]

If you drive 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year. That's 2000 hours.

You could simply grab your car's trip data, stick it in a spreadsheet =SUM(trip distance/average speed) then add up all the trips' hours. Reset every full tank to minimize rounding errors.

My last outback trip averaged 22 hours a week driving. The high endurance cards would be ok for 17 years if I drove every week of the year.

In 3 years I think most would buy a new card. So a au$62.00 256GB high endurance card would amortise at $0.40pw.

 

[SawMaster]

I like the SG approach toward cards which practically guarantees a good experience 👍 I can also appreciate 'branded cards' done to meet the same end, but only when reasonably priced along with the cam not being configured to make use of other good cards incompatible (I'm talking to you Nextbase and Blackvue 😒).

All cards will wear out at some point, so in the end the user is always going to be responsible for their cards. Same as always, best to choose a card which many other users of that exact cam are currently having good experiences with regardless of card specs. And remember that a warranty is not going to do you any good if you lose needed video because of a failed card.

In the real world experience is nearly priceless, and warranties are nearly worthless on low-cost items like the cards usually found in dashcams 😎
Phil

 

[jokiin]

with the cam not being configured to make use of other good cards incompatible (I'm talking to you Nextbase and Blackvue 😒).

Phil

I think you'll find in one of these it's an intentional choice in the firmware, in the other it's just poor coding

 

[Outbacknomad]

Many years ago I needed more memory for my Fuji Xerox printer, $1300.00 to add an additional 1GB to the 256MB installed in the first slot. Bought unbranded memory for $80.00 to this day never had an issue.