Head on accident, NSW

[jokiin]

Note, turn the volume down first

 

[dashy]

It looks like the car was going too fast around that corner.

 

[jokiin]

It looks like the car was going too fast around that corner.

hard to tell exactly as the quality is poor but I think the Merc touched the shoulder of the road which pulled him over a bit, he collected a white post then panicked and over corrected straight into the Ford, dashcam driver got a couple of broken bones for his trouble, I'd say excessive speed was the issue that brought him undone in the first place though

 

[kamkar]

And texting, otherwise i see no reason to go to the inside of a moderate turn in the road.

Speed and overcorrecting is also in the mix, no doubt about that.

Looking more times the Merc might have been in the right lane due to speed, then correct to not hit the car in front, then go too far left and onto the shoulder of the road and then over correct proberly for the second time within seconds.

There should be good evidence on the road for the coppers to study.

 

[jokiin]

There should be good evidence on the road for the coppers to study.

they watched the video and the Merc driver was fined

 

[wozzzzza]

they watched the video and the Merc driver was fined

its things like that that would make cops investigations a hell of a lot easier if everyone had a dash cam, especially for fatals.
but put them coordinates in google maps its in the middle of nowhere on a highway. wonder if mobile phone coverage was working

 

[flank]

Something was going on with that Merc. It was already damaged before it spun out.

 

[jokiin]

it clipped a post on the side of the road before going onto the wrong side of the road

 

[dimscene]

Holy crap. I'm prepared for this winter.

 

[soddo]

If you look at the entry of the corner (for the merc) you can see that there is a rise in the road. That with speed if you lift off the throttle, turn in the rear gets very light and comes around.

I.e Lift off oversteer

 

[Gibson99]

If you look at the entry of the corner (for the merc) you can see that there is a rise in the road. That with speed if you lift off the throttle, turn in the rear gets very light and comes around.

I.e Lift off oversteer

lift-off oversteer only happens when you're already at the limits of cornering grip and is compounded by engine braking, though a sudden dip/rise in the road can certainly unload the suspension and get you to those limits in a very unexpected way. so can sand/debris on the road.

trailbraking, or braking while in a turn, can induce oversteer even when you're not at the limits, depending on how hard you brake. i trailbrake or left-foot brake in certain elements while racing, and have used left-foot braking to control the vehicle during an emergency maneuver on the street a few times (once in a minivan, another time in a full-size tundra pickup - wish i'd had dashcams for those... who knew a tundra could drift??), but only because i'd had lots of practice doing so on the race course. i would not recommend left-foot braking to anyone without actual racing experience, because it's not a simple thing to properly balance using the throttle and brake at the same time - usually while also steering at extreme angles.

of course, when people panic (which seems VERY likely for this merc driver) all that goes out the window because people just get stupid and don't do anything right. sure, i've panicked and slipped off the gas or brake because i couldn't get my foot where i wanted it to be, but in general, i honestly believe my racing experience has made me a better street driver, because being at or beyond the limits of whatever i'm driving doesn't scare me anymore. and i know what will happen when i suddenly cut the wheel 90 degrees when i'm already doing 70 mph, and then how to correct the skid that will induce. high speed driver's education is a real thing, and i plan on bringing my kids to them once they master the basics. if for no other reason than for them to see first hand what it feels like to lose control of a vehicle in a safe place, and then (hopefully) how to recover from it... and in the process, learn how to prevent getting in that situation in the first place.

not sure if this is ironic or not, but the most scary vehicle i've ever driven was not a 600 hp corvette on racing slicks, nor was it an underpowered civic trying to merge onto the highway... it was an Isuzu cab-over box truck towing a 14,000lb trailer (with no trailer brakes). the actual driving part was fine - it was just how everyone kept cutting me off, camping out in my blind spots, and generally just being fscking morons.

 

[soddo]

lift-off oversteer only happens when you're already at the limits of cornering grip and is compounded by engine braking, though a sudden dip/rise in the road can certainly unload the suspension and get you to those limits in a very unexpected way. so can sand/debris on the road.

The whole dynamics of lift off oversteer being a transfer of weight to the front (hence reduce weight at the rear) which therefor reduces grip.

It does not require you to be at the limit, it can be induced and even used as an advantage in certain situations (generally not on the road for normal driving)

In all honesty, im not sure driver education is the key for all. For the average joe I think it is worth while but at the extreme end of this, spending money on a skid pan day for my mum for example would be a waste of time and money. Im sure she would enjoy it but she might get onto the freeway maybe once or twice a year and most of the speed limits in suburbia are slow and compounded by her slow driving in a car with abs, tcs, stability control etc.

On the other extreme end, a lot of the guys I grew up with or raced with are still idiots on the street. Granted picking their moment comes with age...The skills learnt over years of competition I can only guess dulls the sensors or any panic induced by speed, simply because its nothing new. From a psychological POV its quite interesting, if they were assessed from a real psychologist they would simply resist the urge or hide symptoms. If you ask their GF or wife, you will get the real story. Granted not all of them are like this, but most of them are.

Me personally, I am actually more dangerous on the road, I generally don't speed or be a menace to other road users, I simply find it so boring I (seemingly, as told by others) don't pay enough attention to the road. This is made worse if I have to drive a **** box (i.e the mrs car) and its now at the point where if we are going somewhere in her car, I refuse to drive. I am aware of my problem and trying to be active about it but in all honesty I think I have some sort of driving A.D.D.

 

[soddo]

Oh and left foot braking, in a car is easy in comparison to using the rear brake effectively on a bike on a track. It is so hard to use to give benefit that none of the race schools teach it in their standard curriculum, often touted as "the last thing you need to master or even need"

 

[petepete]

The whole dynamics of lift off oversteer being a transfer of weight to the front (hence reduce weight at the rear) which therefor reduces grip.

It does not require you to be at the limit, it can be induced and even used as an advantage in certain situations (generally not on the road for normal driving)

In all honesty, im not sure driver education is the key for all. For the average joe I think it is worth while but at the extreme end of this, spending money on a skid pan day for my mum for example would be a waste of time and money. Im sure she would enjoy it but she might get onto the freeway maybe once or twice a year and most of the speed limits in suburbia are slow and compounded by her slow driving in a car with abs, tcs, stability control etc.

On the other extreme end, a lot of the guys I grew up with or raced with are still idiots on the street. Granted picking their moment comes with age...The skills learnt over years of competition I can only guess dulls the sensors or any panic induced by speed, simply because its nothing new. From a psychological POV its quite interesting, if they were assessed from a real psychologist they would simply resist the urge or hide symptoms. If you ask their GF or wife, you will get the real story. Granted not all of them are like this, but most of them are.

Me personally, I am actually more dangerous on the road, I generally don't speed or be a menace to other road users, I simply find it so boring I (seemingly, as told by others) don't pay enough attention to the road. This is made worse if I have to drive a **** box (i.e the mrs car) and its now at the point where if we are going somewhere in her car, I refuse to drive. I am aware of my problem and trying to be active about it but in all honesty I think I have some sort of driving A.D.D.

I can relate to the driving A.A.D !!!

But put me in a sports car without the family and "driver mode" is unavoidable !

I do believe skid pan and any form of advanced skills can save your life as I ve driven roads that with no warning will have you aquaplaning, driven roads that turn to sheet ice in places and as a teenager remember losing a lot of friends to sports bike/ moped accidents and it was always the ones who rode well and never got any practice at falling off ....

Looks to me like the driver wasn't paying attention, saw the first car and overcorrected and then did the same again in panic as he hit the hard shoulder and was out of control from the first correction lacking the skill to recover..

Not even a proper bend and certainly wasn't going fast enough for that to be the problem