LiFePo4 powerbanks safety question

[Metalown]

Hello, I am new to the forum as I became interested in dash cameras and powerbanks lately. I would like to ask if there is any incident reported about LiFePo4 powerbanks causing fire/damage to cars and how safe are they considered for use in pretty hot meditteranean climates? Is it dangerous to have a car parked under the sun with the powerbank placed under passenger's seat and working for parking mode (not charging)? Can something bad happen? I am mostly looking at those powercore 6200LFP batteries but I am very cautious as I see it is a new company, their website looks pretty simple, it has lots of syntax errors in the texts describing their products and generally it looks pretty unpforessional. I would exclude an email answer they sent me when I asked them a couple of questions. That answer looked way more professional than their website. I do not mean to judge anybody by the looks, but when it comes down to matters like the safety of you, your family and your property, you just cannot trust anybody you find on the internet, right?

To sum up, I am expressing my concerns regarding firstly the safety or possible risks of using dash cam dedicated battery packs in general (LiFePo4) and more specifically opinions about the Powercore 6200LFP battery pack or experience that user's may have had with it.

Thank you.

 

[Nigel]

I would like to ask if there is any incident reported about LiFePo4 powerbanks causing fire/damage to cars

I don't recall any reports of LiFePO4 powerbank causing fire damage, but there have been reports of other lithium powerbanks doing so, and a very small number of of LiFePO4 car batteries doing so.

Is it dangerous to have a car parked under the sun with the powerbank placed under passenger's seat and working for parking mode (not charging)? Can something bad happen?

That is very unlikely to be a problem, unless you have previously charged it while it is freezing.

There is a lot of power stored in these devices, so it does have potential to cause fire if it gets out of control, so I wouldn't want to use a very cheap product from an unknown company.

I am mostly looking at those powercore 6200LFP batteries but I am very cautious as I see it is a new company,

As you say, they don't have a long history, and their website quality does point to a small company that may not have the best quality controls, however they obviously do have some good engineers and are definitely worth considering, there is a thread on this website discussing their products which is worth reading.

To sum up, I am expressing my concerns regarding firstly the safety or possible risks of using dash cam dedicated battery packs in general (LiFePo4) and more specifically opinions about the Powercore 6200LFP battery pack or experience that user's may have had with it.

I would be happy to put that in my car.

It is, in my view, important to have low temperature protection, since not having it is a fire risk. It is surprising how many powerbanks of all types do not have this, so take note of the comparison table on Powercore's website:

LiFePO4 Quick Charge power banks for dashcams

UK/EU power bank manufacturer, latest batery cells technology, innovative and safety technology

www.power-core.co.uk

If you intend to sleep in the vehicle, fit a smoke alarm. Vehicle interiors are not fire proof, and unlike house furniture are not self extinguishing - they are designed and regulated based on the occupants being awake and thus able to escape a fire.

 

[Metalown]

Thanks for your detailed reply.

It is, in my view, important to have low temperature protection, since not having it is a fire risk.

So, is low temperature (below 0 etc.) in your opinion more dangerous than high temperatures? I ask because you emphasize more on this while my original concern was about when the weather is too hot and sometimes you are obliged to park somewhere unprotected. And I mostly wonder about battery being idle or discharging (by powering the cameras that will be working in parking mode). I say this, because I'm planning to charge the battery pack using the cigar lighter socket instead of having it hardwired to the fuse box. So it will be in my control to judge if the car's temperature is ok to plug it in so it starts charging. What I would not control is the temperature inside the car while it is parked with cameras on parking mode and the battery pack slowly discharging.

I have read people's opinions about the Powercore batteries in the forum but still I am cautious. You know, it is not just if you sleep inside your car. Noone wants to see his property destroyed because of a faulty gadget they put inside. Cars cost a lot of money. Of course first priority is health but the fact that I will be fine if I'm not sleeping inside when it burns, is not an argument that would persuade me about the safety of the product

 

[Metalown]

Also, regarding the trustworthiness of that Powercore company, I am afraid there aren't many options in Europe. I am not sure there is a simple way to order the other known brands (Cellink, Powercell etc.) as I understand they are manufactured in the US and are not easily found in Europe. Probably nobody bothers since those battery packs are not popular at all. A few people use dash cameras, even fewer hardwire them, even fewer hardwire them to battery packs.

 

[Nigel]

So, is low temperature (below 0 etc.) in your opinion more dangerous than high temperatures?

As far as I know, you can discharge safely at any temperature you are likely to encounter, as long as the battery pack is not in direct sunshine and behind glass. If it gets too cold then you will stop getting enough power, but it is still safe.

For charging, all powerbanks have a high temperature cut off to keep them safe, and although charging too hot may damage the cells, I don't think it is a fire risk anyway, so it is only the low temperature protection that you need to worry about, which I think is often not bothered with because you are supposed to charge them indoors at 20°C!

Charging below zero is a fire risk since it can create short circuits inside the cells which can result in fire some time in the future. Although there are very few reports of LiFePO4 cells catching fire, so it is only a small risk, but one not worth taking, and you don't want your cells damaged anyway. I don't know how often it gets below freezing in Greece, but I wouldn't take the risk, someday you might spend a night in the mountains and not think about it until too late.

I have read people's opinions about the Powercore batteries in the forum but still I am cautious.

They are still too new to have a good history, so I can't say that they are definitely safe, but safety is something they concentrate on, and I would trust them more than the other brands, some of which don't have low temperature cut offs, so have obviously never taken safety seriously, and I think the newer Blackvue only has low temperature protection because this forum made bit of a fuss about the previous models not having it, and they listened to their customers!

You know, it is not just if you sleep inside your car. Noone wants to see his property destroyed because of a faulty gadget they put inside.

Especially if your car is parked inside your garage, and you garage is part of your house - there have been a few occurrences of houses burning down because of car fires caused by batteries.

 

[Dashmellow]

So, is low temperature (below 0 etc.) in your opinion more dangerous than high temperatures?

Both are a concern but you definitely should try to avoid charging a lithium based battery below 0 degrees Centigrade. Lithium batteries should not be charged when they are hot but can tolerate some charging when they are a bit warm.

Charging a frozen or hot battery leads to the formation and growth of dendrites, also known as lithium plating which is basically lithium metal precipitating out of the electrolyte. Lithium dendrites are metallic microstructures that form on the negative electrode during the charging process. A single instance of charging a lithium battery below freezing temperatures or when hot will not cause a fire but repeated abuse of the battery causes a build-up of lithium metal dendrites that eventually will lead to a short circuit and a thermal runaway the leads to a fire. Often the build-up of dendrites causes the battery electrolyte layers to swell and eventually burst and this is also part of the process that leads to a short circuit or even an explosion.

The following article will explain this process in greater detail.

Battery Power Online | A Look Inside Your Battery: Watching the Dendrites Grow

www.batterypoweronline.com

 

[GPak]

To sum up, I am expressing my concerns regarding firstly the safety or possible risks of using dash cam dedicated battery packs in general (LiFePo4) and more specifically opinions about the Powercore 6200LFP battery pack or experience that user's may have had with it.

Nothing densely packed with a lot of energy is 100% safe; that said LFP chemistry battery is the safest choice for in car and hot condition application.
Looking at “Power Core 6200LFP” specs, it has all the necessary protections

Charging temperature	0°C - 60°C
Discharging temperature	-30°C - 70°C
Low-Temp Protection	Yes, 0°C or less
Hi-Temp Protection	Yes, 65°C or more

These protections basically will shut off the battery if limits are exceeded.

Honestly, for the price these dedicated batteries sell for, manufacturers could offer something better.
- At list, they could implement cooling fan.
- Even subzero charging up to -10⁰ Celsius can be implemented, if smart charge controller limits changing current at 0.05-0.1C
(for Power Core 6200LFP that would be about 6W charge rate enough to keep it operatonal)

For example, $60-70 LFP Power Station, that I am using as a DashCam battery has all the required protections, but also cooling fan which will engage at high temperature to keep it operational.
Worked flawlessly during all summer, in a car parked at work for full day under the sun with windows rolled up and with ambient temperature in excess of 37°C.
You can imagine temperature inside of the car.

 

[Metalown]

So, if I understand correctly, it is a good practice to hardwire dashcamera onto the battery pack BUT not hardware the batterypack itself on the car fuse box. Instead, use the cigar ligther socket to charge the battery pack, thus being able to drive the car 5-10 minutes using clima to bring the cabin temperature to reasonable numbers before pluging in the lighter socket to start charging the battery pack.

 

[Metalown]

For example, $60-70 LFP Power Station, that I am using as a DashCam battery has all the required protections, but also cooling fan which will engage at high temperature to keep it operational.
Worked flawlessly during all summer, in a car parked at work for full day under the sun with windows rolled up and with ambient temperature in excess of 37°C.
You can imagine temperature inside of the car.

Is there a way to use parking mode on a dash camera connected to a power station? I think most of them have USB outputs or AC or whatever but not the required output that mimmicks the fusebox hardwiring in order for a dash camera to recognize it and work in parking mode.

 

[Nigel]

Is there a way to use parking mode on a dash camera connected to a power station? I think most of them have USB outputs or AC or whatever but not the required output that mimmicks the fusebox hardwiring in order for a dash camera to recognize it and work in parking mode.

Most dashcam powerbanks have outputs suitable for connecting a dashcam hardwire kit, including the parking mode (ACC) signal.
Some have outputs for a specific brand of camera which includes a parking mode signal.

So, if I understand correctly, it is a good practice to hardwire dashcamera onto the battery pack BUT not hardware the batterypack itself on the car fuse box. Instead, use the cigar ligther socket to charge the battery pack, thus being able to drive the car 5-10 minutes using clima to bring the cabin temperature to reasonable numbers before pluging in the lighter socket to start charging the battery pack.

I don't think there is any need to manually intervene as long as the automatic cut offs are there to do the job.
Waiting 10 minutes doesn't necessarily cool the centres of the battery cells sufficiently, takes a while for the heat or cool to get through to the centre - leave the decision to the automatic cut offs.

 

[GPak]

So, if I understand correctly, it is a good practice to hardwire dashcamera onto the battery pack BUT not hardware the batterypack itself on the car fuse box. Instead, use the cigar ligther socket to charge the battery pack, thus being able to drive the car 5-10 minutes using clima to bring the cabin temperature to reasonable numbers before pluging in the lighter socket to start charging the battery pack.

Not really,
Because battery protection will not allow it to operate outside of temp limits anyway, even if it is hardwired. (Basicaly mimicking your unplaging and plaging into cigar socket)
Keep in mind that dedicated battery will charge with considerably lower rate from cigar socket because they are usually regulated to approximately 12.5V with limited amperage, while hardwired battery can use alternator voltage at about 14.5V and at whatever amperage it is designed for.

 

[Metalown]

Most dashcam powerbanks have outputs suitable for connecting a dashcam hardwire kit, including the parking mode (ACC) signal.
Some have outputs for a specific brand of camera which includes a parking mode signal.

The questioned referred to GPak, who said that he uses a 60-70$ LFP station as a daskcam battery pack. I assume this is not a dashcam dedicated battery and that's why I asked how parking mode is available.

 

[GPak]

The questioned referred to GPak, who said that he uses a 60-70$ LFP station as a daskcam battery pack. I assume this is not a dashcam dedicated battery and that's why I asked how parking mode is available.

Parking Battery-Power Station, 3X capacity and 3X cheaper than dedicated options + extra functionality

First, thanks to the members of this forum for posting great reviews and comments to help people like me choose the DashCam that suits their specific needs. Now, I want to share my project here and maybe help people, who don't want to mess with a car battery and fuse box but are hesitant to...

dashcamtalk.com

 

[Metalown]

Parking Battery-Power Station, 3X capacity and 3X cheaper than dedicated options + extra functiona

So now it is explained why dedicated powerbanks are expensive. Because the DIY solution is hell of a headache to set up.

 

[GPak]

So now it is explained why dedicated powerbanks are expensive. Because the DIY solution is hell of a headache to set up.

How come?
You just need to conect couple of USB-A cables with hardwire cable, I think it is easier than messing with fuse box, hardwiring dedicated battery

 

[Metalown]

I think it is easier than messing with fuse box, hardwiring dedicated battery

My plan IF I end up buying a powerbank, is to only hardwire the camera on the powerbank but let the powerbank charge using the 12V lighter socket. No messing with the fusebox. I'm just hesitant about trusting a powerbank in a new car.

 

[chili]

How come?
You just need to conect couple of USB-A cables with hardwire cable, I think it is easier than messing with fuse box, hardwiring dedicated battery

There is no messing when you hardwire an external battery, you are tapping into 1 switched fuse job done. I just installed a cellink neo8+ into my mercedes the app for the battery gives me all the info i need including temp of battery

 

[GPak]

By "messing" I meant relatively speaking, some fuse boxes are not that easy to access, requiring interior panel removals, some are not that easy to understand, especially newer "smart" cars, and in my case, 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee does not have fuse box in the cabin at all, the only Fuse box is under the hood, requiring to run wires through firewall.
Also some people are hesitant to work with electrical staff.
However, I agree, with you, ether way it is not that complicated.

 

[chili]

By "messing" I meant relatively speaking, some fuse boxes are not that easy to access, requiring interior panel removals, some are not that easy to understand, especially newer "smart" cars, and in my case, 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee does not have fuse box in the cabin at all, the only Fuse box is under the hood, requiring to run wires through firewall.
However, I agree, with you, ether way it is not that complicated.

or splice into a ciggy socket and have an inline fuse

 

[Hyundai kona 2024]

My plan IF I end up buying a powerbank, is to only hardwire the camera on the powerbank but let the powerbank charge using the 12V lighter socket. No messing with the fusebox. I'm just hesitant about trusting a powerbank in a new car.

I'm having a problem with. my cellink neo 8,
What ever I do it won't connect to the cellink app so I can't see the battery percentage, is it worth uninstaling the app and start all over again. My Bluetooth is switched on,
I'm using a Samsung s23 plus,