M2 footage dash and action

[Dashmellow]

I guess a "night" button could be added to alleviate the day / night part of this. However, would it simply not be better to try to have accurate metering that didn't require user intervention? I don't remember ever having to adjust any DSLR or compact camera or video camera in automatic mode to compensate for a change of lighting state. Rather the conditions were metered (usually) accurately and automatically. The issue is usually with focus in low light and that's a non issue with fixed focus.

Contrasting the performance of a modern DSLR, point and shoot camera or camcorder to a little SoC device like a Mobius is not a valid or reasonable comparison. Putting aside for the time being the obvious differences in price points, cameras such as a DSLR or similar have actual mechanical apertures along with mechanical shutter mechanisms and dedicated, often sophisticated metering systems. They generally have more powerful DSPs that handle additional complex tasks such as auto-focus and other functions as well. There is simply no way a little 90 dollar SoC based device with a fixed lens aperture, virtual shutter speeds and digitally integrated metering off the imaging sensor could ever match such performance with the current state of the art. SoC dash cams and actions cams are remarkable little devices for what they are and what they cost but they do indeed have their limitations; some more so than others.

 

[kamkar]

Sadly our little world of the sensor market dont get the same attention as the sensor market for smartphones, if it did then we would have better dashcams now just like smartphone cameras have progressed a lot.
But sadly our cameras are so marginal we have to make do with what ever sensors is left over from something else.

I would love to see a dashcam dedicated sensor being made, that could be interesting.

Action cameras have progressed a lot, but much of that is due to larger and larger pixel count.
I am hoping a similar interest for the dashcam market will change things for us.

 

[jokiin]

Action cameras have progressed a lot, but much of that is due to larger and larger pixel count.
I am hoping a similar interest for the dashcam market will change things for us.

regardless of how much some brands talk themselves up as being the number one brand in the world (there are 4 or 5 that claim this) none of the dashcam manufacturers do anywhere near the kind of volumes that some of the sport cam manufacturers have been doing so haven't got any interest from the vendors for any application specific hardware to suit our needs, we're left to do what we can with what we have at our disposal

 

[Dashmellow]

Sadly our little world of the sensor market dont get the same attention as the sensor market for smartphones, if it did then we would have better dashcams now just like smartphone cameras have progressed a lot.
But sadly our cameras are so marginal we have to make do with what ever sensors is left over from something else.

I would love to see a dashcam dedicated sensor being made, that could be interesting.

Action cameras have progressed a lot, but much of that is due to larger and larger pixel count.
I am hoping a similar interest for the dashcam market will change things for us.

If dash cams cost the same as the average smartphone I think the available components for dash cams would have the same equivalency.

Somebody started a thread just the other day about dash cams for rich people. Maybe we need a six hundred dollar ultimate dash cam? Milled from a solid block of aluminum, black anodized, ultimate state of the art electronics, chipset and optics, etc.
Hey, @jokiin, maybe it's time to start getting that one onto the drawing board?

 

[jokiin]

Somebody started a thread just the other day about dash cams for rich people. Maybe we need a six hundred dollar ultimate dash cam? Milled from a solid block of aluminum, black anodized, ultimate state of the art electronics, chipset and optics, etc.
Hey, @jokiin, maybe it's time to start getting that one onto the drawing board?

if I was going to do any high spec camera the starting point would be a larger format sensor and appropriate lens and work the rest of it out back from that, don't think it's commercially viable just yet but would be nice all the same

 

[Dashmellow]

if I was going to do any high spec camera the starting point would be a larger format sensor and appropriate lens and work the rest of it out back from that, don't think it's commercially viable just yet but would be nice all the same

Hey man, stop pussy footing around and get to work on it already!

 

[Dashmellow]

I was just thinking; a dash cam milled from a solid block of aluminum the way many smartphones and tablets are manufactured would make for a great pre-heat sinked camera body.

 

[jokiin]

Hey man, stop pussy footing around and get to work on it already!

I'd like to and I'm sure I wouldn't need to look for to find some beta testers but too much on the plate right now to be able to venture into no mans land, would be the type of thing that would be nice to do once we're a bit more established and could afford the time and resources to be able to do something like this though

 

[Dashmellow]

I'd like to and I'm sure I wouldn't need to look for to find some beta testers but too much on the plate right now to be able to venture into no mans land, would be the type of thing that would be nice to do once we're a bit more established and could afford the time and resources to be able to do something like this though

When you become a multi-billionaire and control most of the world wide dash cam markets Street Guardian can even start designing and manufacturing its own proprietary chipsets the way Apple now does.

 

[jokiin]

I was just thinking; a dash cam milled from a solid block of aluminum the way many smartphones and tablets are manufactured would make for a great pre-heat sinked camera body.

I think the future of this type of product with a larger sensor etc would really work best with remote cameras and hide away box to try and minimise how much of the hardware is in the window, trim some fat away so we could afford a bigger sensor and lens without the product becoming overly obtrusive

 

[Dashmellow]

I think the future of this type of product with a larger sensor etc would really work best with remote cameras and hide away box to try and minimise how much of the hardware is in the window, trim some fat away so we could afford a bigger sensor and lens without the product becoming overly obtrusive

OK then, milled aluminum black anodized big sensor remote lens modules. Nothing but the best.

 

[jokiin]

When you become a multi-billionaire and control most of the world wide dash cam markets Street Guardian can even start designing and manufacturing its own proprietary chipsets the way Apple now does.

I don't think the market is big enough (or ever looks to be big enough) to get the kind of production volume to justify a proprietary chipset, you really have to wonder what some of the manufacturers that screen print new logos or laser the names off their chipsets in an attempt to make out they have some unique version chipset in their products must be thinking

 

[Dashmellow]

I don't think the market is big enough (or ever looks to be big enough) to get the kind of production volume to justify a proprietary chipset, you really have to wonder what some of the manufacturers that screen print new logos or laser the names off their chipsets in an attempt to make out they have some unique version chipset in their products must be thinking

Well, as much as some of us would love to see a higher end large sensor dash cam, this is all obviously tongue in cheek and in good fun and doesn't really require any sort of explanation. (although an eventual large sensor dash cam at a reasonable price would probably be a killer product in the market place)

 

[jokiin]

Well, as much as some of us would love to see a higher end large sensor dash cam, this is all obviously tongue in cheek and in good fun and doesn't really require any sort of explanation. (although an eventual large sensor dash cam at a reasonable price would probably be a killer product in the market place)

it is something I can see happening at some stage, won't happen soon but this type of thing is more likely to happen once the western market for these products grows to a reasonable level, once the demand is there it's just a matter of time until the expectation is raised and the push is there to see some improvement, trying to get more performance out of the size sensors we use now is possibly a lot more of a challenge than just moving to larger sensors

 

[TonyM]

So tonight I switched to bright light priority, and compared the M2 and GC, with WDR on and off. M2 is on 1080p60 to keep the exposure in check, following yesterday's test.

All the white specks around the M2 WDR video appear to be a mixture of static hot pixels and random noise.

 

[jokiin]

looks like they still have some work to do with the WDR

 

[TonyM]

looks like they still have some work to do with the WDR

Yes, it's still too noisy to be of much use. The non-WDR isn't great at night either.

I keep wanting to like the M2, but always end up preferring the GC as my main camera.

 

[c4rc4m]

Contrasting the performance of a modern DSLR, point and shoot camera or camcorder to a little SoC device like a Mobius is not a valid or reasonable comparison. Putting aside for the time being the obvious differences in price points, cameras such as a DSLR or similar have actual mechanical apertures along with mechanical shutter mechanisms and dedicated, often sophisticated metering systems. They generally have more powerful DSPs that handle additional complex tasks such as auto-focus and other functions as well. There is simply no way a little 90 dollar SoC based device with a fixed lens aperture, virtual shutter speeds and digitally integrated metering off the imaging sensor could ever match such performance with the current state of the art. SoC dash cams and actions cams are remarkable little devices for what they are and what they cost but they do indeed have their limitations; some more so than others.

Last time I looked a £25 compact camera could easily handle day or night shooting video without the need to have the user set a "day", "night" or "intermediate" mode. So it's hardly unreasonable or rocket science to expect the same from a car cam.

With regards to the shutter DSLR's and compacts and other cameras do NOT use mechanical shutters when shooting video - they simply discharge the sensor between frames (hence why there's no shutter noise) so it's exactly the same as for video on a car cam.

As for metering, if car / action cams are going to improve, then dedicated metering is a must. If a small cheap compact camera can manage it for £24.99 : http://www.argos.co.uk/product/4278113 (and that has a mechanical shutter, viewfinder, and a lot of other expensive items not needed for a car cam plus a 16mp sensor), then I see no reason why car cam manufacturers cannot do this for under £100.

 

[c4rc4m]

looks like they still have some work to do with the WDR

It looks a bit to me from the grain, as though they're trying to achieve a WDR effect by upping the gain (which would explain the noise). However, WDR is more about tone mapping. The GC looks not much better either. Although It's picture is very good in low light, there's virtually no difference between WDR and SDR. I can't see anything in WDR that I can't see in the SDR version.

This infographic for CCTV systems gives some explanation as how WDR can be achieved and shows the effects:

 

[jokiin]

the type of WDR (or HDR) used in photography or CCTV using long and short exposures where the light source doesn't vary much doesn't work well for a dashcam, they tried this type of WDR in the release version firmware for the M2 and it was no good at all