GPak
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My bad, video was privet, all fixed now.
I guess I don't have as bright a futer in Hollywood as I had hoped
I guess I don't have as bright a futer in Hollywood as I had hoped
Parking Battery-Power Station, 3X capacity and 3X cheaper than dedicated options + extra functionality
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GPak
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Part 2 and Part 3, Two Power Stations powering two VIOFO DashCams, Mini1 and Mini2
Power Stations are two Necespow 161Wh version, charging at approximately 60W rate each, from one 12V DC car cigarette lighter with 1:2 splitter, using two Chargers rated at 65W USB-C PD each
Power Stations are two Necespow 161Wh version, charging at approximately 60W rate each, from one 12V DC car cigarette lighter with 1:2 splitter, using two Chargers rated at 65W USB-C PD each
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GPak
Active Member
Last night temperature dropped to +3°C, quite early and low for our area.
So, I updated my post #2 to add sub-zero temp protection to "must have" essential requirements. (thanks to @Nigel)
Then, I decided to check “Baseus PS” low temp protection, and also “Nesespow PS” for comparison.
I put both of them into my freezer for a couple of hours until they show -5°C on display, (both Stations have internal battery temperature indication).
1. Baseus 288Wh PS, Specs/Manual show low temperature protection present:
But what a pleasant surprise:
So, I updated my post #2 to add sub-zero temp protection to "must have" essential requirements. (thanks to @Nigel)
Then, I decided to check “Baseus PS” low temp protection, and also “Nesespow PS” for comparison.
I put both of them into my freezer for a couple of hours until they show -5°C on display, (both Stations have internal battery temperature indication).
1. Baseus 288Wh PS, Specs/Manual show low temperature protection present:
- As expected it did not charge at negative and up to 0°Celsius. Sub-zero protection works, GOOD!
- At the same time it is powering DashCam, GOOD.
- It automatically started to charge at +1°C at approximately half of the max rate, GOOD.
But what a pleasant surprise:
- I did not expect but it did not charge at negative and up to 0°Celsius. Sub-zero protection present and it works, GOOD!
- At the same time it is powering DashCam, GOOD.
- (Such an important feature, why won’t they put this in manual and advertise? it puzzles me)
- Now this is different; It is not automatically starting to charge at +1°C, and I waited until +5°C, you have to recycle it, i.e. turn it OFF/ON to start charging, and it starts charging at +1°C, GOOD, I guess, but I like Baseus auto-start charging better.
- Update: Automatically resumes charging at+5°C (I was not patient enough)
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forcefed
Active Member
I just noticed the ecoflow has a charge limit from 0c while bluetti has -20c so it seems the ecoflow won't work for me in the cold Canadian winters.
Can you verify the bluetti charges at sub zero temps?
Might have to deal with the on/off with Bluetooth for the bluetti when its discharged.
Can you verify the bluetti charges at sub zero temps?
Might have to deal with the on/off with Bluetooth for the bluetti when its discharged.
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GPak
Active Member
In general, LFP batteries should not be charged at sub-zero temperature, it will quickly degrade and destroy the battery.
That said, very low charge rate, (up to 0.1C rate) may be acceptable for moderately negative temps, to speed up battery core warming process and add a little juice to battery, but it will not radically help in extended and extreme cold conditions.
So, Ecoflow has a sub-zero charging protection - that is Good.
Bluetti EB3A also has a sub-zero charging protection, here what the manual says:
- Discharging Temperature: (-20°C) to (+40°C)
- Charging Temperature: (0°C) to (+40°C)
)forcefed
Active Member
Hmm maybe I'll have to keep the battery in some kind of cooler to keep it from freezing or take it inside to warm up and charge in the cold winter days.
So it seems those $400 blackvue dashcam batteries must have the same issue, I'd be pissed if I paid that much and then have to keep it warm or take it inside.
So it seems those $400 blackvue dashcam batteries must have the same issue, I'd be pissed if I paid that much and then have to keep it warm or take it inside.
GPak
Active Member
All expensive Dedicated Batteries have the exactly same sub-zero charge protection/limitation
Just in case you need it, I found Ecoflow River 2 manual
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GPak
Active Member
Baseus Power Station - Negative temperature protection test
Tested from -5°C to 0°C with the same results- No charge, but still powering DC.
Automatically resumes charging at +1°C
Update: I noticed that for the video I was plugging USB-C power cable to wrong port, that's what happens trying to operate with one hand
But no worries, outside of the video I actually tested it correctly, here are some pics to prove
Tested from -5°C to 0°C with the same results- No charge, but still powering DC.
Automatically resumes charging at +1°C
Update: I noticed that for the video I was plugging USB-C power cable to wrong port, that's what happens trying to operate with one hand
But no worries, outside of the video I actually tested it correctly, here are some pics to prove
Attachments
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GPak
Active Member
Necespow Power Station - Negative temperature protection test
Tested from -5°C to 0°C with the same results - No charge, while powering DC.
Won’t auto-resume charging, requires re-cycling, i.e. turn OFF/ON to starts charging at +1°C
Update: Automatically resumes charging at +5°C (I was not patient enough)
Tested from -5°C to 0°C with the same results - No charge, while powering DC.
Won’t auto-resume charging, requires re-cycling, i.e. turn OFF/ON to starts charging at +1°C
Update: Automatically resumes charging at +5°C (I was not patient enough)
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DigitalCorpus
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DigitalCorpus
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Thank you for the testing. And let's extend the thanks to your wife for use of the freezer.
If you don't mind, I'm going to run some number myself for the commute/park cycle I go through. I don't have to particularly worry about the low side of the temperature spec, but that upper end might be a problem. I'm 5-6 months out from being able to test that directly, too, though I do park facing the sun and with the window tint, I have already noted that the trunk/boot stays notably cooler, especially with the privacy scrims preventing air circulation and heating there. That said:
Commute: 60 min per day * 4 days a week * 180 W charging capacity = 720 Whr (weekly lower limit charge capacity)
Parked @ max: 5.5 W * 96 hrs = 528 Whr (maximum weekend discharge)
Parked @ nom.: 5.5 W * 72 hrs = 396 Whr (maximum weekend discharge)
Parked @ daily: 5.5 W * (12 hrs + 10 hrs) = 121 Whr (daily discharge)
That's the worst case, which tallies to 649 Whr required of 720 Whr, or ~90% my capacity. Nominally, this is reduced to 517 Whr, aka. ~72% of my charging capacity. Include losses of DC/DC conversion that happens twice, 12 V to 5 V and then USB Power Delivery to cell voltage, and you'll lucky to be at ~80-85% efficiency plug-to-pack, putting me back up to ~90% capacity.
So for my use case, I need to provision 530 Whr, or a peak of ~650 Whr, for a 5.5 watt draw aka ~100-120 Whr/W for how much the car is parked.
The NECESPOW stations are in stock and can be charged at 65 W peak, 60 W observable so I have to run things in parallel:
550Whr / 4 hrs / 60 W = 2.7 packs
And since 161 * 3 < 650, that puts me at the 322 W stations. Someone popped open a station back in 2021 and the packs inside were labeled for 307 Whr, fwiw. Still over-provisioned for capacity with those ratings
If you don't mind, I'm going to run some number myself for the commute/park cycle I go through. I don't have to particularly worry about the low side of the temperature spec, but that upper end might be a problem. I'm 5-6 months out from being able to test that directly, too, though I do park facing the sun and with the window tint, I have already noted that the trunk/boot stays notably cooler, especially with the privacy scrims preventing air circulation and heating there. That said:
Commute: 60 min per day * 4 days a week * 180 W charging capacity = 720 Whr (weekly lower limit charge capacity)
Parked @ max: 5.5 W * 96 hrs = 528 Whr (maximum weekend discharge)
Parked @ nom.: 5.5 W * 72 hrs = 396 Whr (maximum weekend discharge)
Parked @ daily: 5.5 W * (12 hrs + 10 hrs) = 121 Whr (daily discharge)
That's the worst case, which tallies to 649 Whr required of 720 Whr, or ~90% my capacity. Nominally, this is reduced to 517 Whr, aka. ~72% of my charging capacity. Include losses of DC/DC conversion that happens twice, 12 V to 5 V and then USB Power Delivery to cell voltage, and you'll lucky to be at ~80-85% efficiency plug-to-pack, putting me back up to ~90% capacity.
So for my use case, I need to provision 530 Whr, or a peak of ~650 Whr, for a 5.5 watt draw aka ~100-120 Whr/W for how much the car is parked.
The NECESPOW stations are in stock and can be charged at 65 W peak, 60 W observable so I have to run things in parallel:
550Whr / 4 hrs / 60 W = 2.7 packs
And since 161 * 3 < 650, that puts me at the 322 W stations. Someone popped open a station back in 2021 and the packs inside were labeled for 307 Whr, fwiw. Still over-provisioned for capacity with those ratings
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DigitalCorpus
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I think it should be noted that most devices/sockets have a similar peak rating of 120-150 W from the cigarette lighter when using 12 V, as I’ve found out.
GPak
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@DigitalCorpus, I am not sure about “180W charging capacity”.
Capacity is measured in Wh, so I am guessing 180W is charging rate, however for the Necespow 322Wh version, the best charge rate you can get is about 60W using USB-C, plus about 50W using 12VDC with dual charging for combined 110W. (Btw, that is almost the same max rate Dedicated Batteries provide)
Nothing is going to work for 72hrs weekend, even if you get large enough capacity Power Station, at the end of the weekend it will be almost empty, and driving 1hr a day, at best will restore only 110Wh energy which will be drained in the next 21 hrs of parking assuming parking consumption is 5.5W as you mentioned. The next day this cycle will repeat, and so on, therefore Power Station will cycle between empty and 110Wh, and will not work for next weekend.
Extra capacity is good to have for unexpected less than usual driving time days, to temporary buffer charge/discharge dis-balance.
That is why charge rate is more important for usual short time commuting.
However charge rate is not only function of Power Station or Dedicated Batty, it is also car limitation.
As you mentioned, car's electrical system is mostly designed for 12-14.5V, 10A max or about 120-145W max. (Except for special cases like probably seat heaters, or built in inverters, etc.)
Either, DashCam's parking duration should be limited and/or parking mode should be changed to less power hungry like “Event detection”
If parking duration is limited to 24hrs and parking consumption is 5.5W, then depending on charge rate it will run ether 4 days or 15 days, as scheduled, after that it will cycle at max daily charge rate capacity, cutting short parking duration, until recharged at home. (see attached Image)
I prefer to balance driving charge and parking discharge rates as posted earlier.
Capacity is measured in Wh, so I am guessing 180W is charging rate, however for the Necespow 322Wh version, the best charge rate you can get is about 60W using USB-C, plus about 50W using 12VDC with dual charging for combined 110W. (Btw, that is almost the same max rate Dedicated Batteries provide)
Nothing is going to work for 72hrs weekend, even if you get large enough capacity Power Station, at the end of the weekend it will be almost empty, and driving 1hr a day, at best will restore only 110Wh energy which will be drained in the next 21 hrs of parking assuming parking consumption is 5.5W as you mentioned. The next day this cycle will repeat, and so on, therefore Power Station will cycle between empty and 110Wh, and will not work for next weekend.
Extra capacity is good to have for unexpected less than usual driving time days, to temporary buffer charge/discharge dis-balance.
That is why charge rate is more important for usual short time commuting.
However charge rate is not only function of Power Station or Dedicated Batty, it is also car limitation.
As you mentioned, car's electrical system is mostly designed for 12-14.5V, 10A max or about 120-145W max. (Except for special cases like probably seat heaters, or built in inverters, etc.)
Either, DashCam's parking duration should be limited and/or parking mode should be changed to less power hungry like “Event detection”
If parking duration is limited to 24hrs and parking consumption is 5.5W, then depending on charge rate it will run ether 4 days or 15 days, as scheduled, after that it will cycle at max daily charge rate capacity, cutting short parking duration, until recharged at home. (see attached Image)
I prefer to balance driving charge and parking discharge rates as posted earlier.
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DigitalCorpus
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My cigarette socket is rated for 180 W
Even though the power stations can only accept 65 W, I am looking at charging 3 at the same time.
Even though the power stations can only accept 65 W, I am looking at charging 3 at the same time.
GPak
Active Member
Actually it may work!
You need three way cigar socket splitter rated at 180W, then you can charge all tree Power Stations at 60W each,
Then the first PS will feed the second PS (DC out/DC in) and the second PS will feed the third PC, which in turn will power DVR
I will test it with two Power Stations
Btw, Necespo is licenced and improved version of Energizer PPS320 sold in UK (for a lot of money)
https://www.argos.co.uk/product/1133244
Energizer and early Necespow version (orange band) use 16*3.2V*6000mAh cells for total of 307Wh, new version (green band) using 16*3.2V*6300mAh cells for total of 322Wh (although, I can't find original source anymore)
DigitalCorpus
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I can find 150 W extensions, but with exception of a couple of a few rebadged 135 W, dual PD plugs, I cannot find anything fused higher than 10 A or heavier than 12 AWG, and I can’t confirm its copper conductors. I’m thinking I’d have to run custom power to the trunk.
I know my multi-day absence from droving is unusual, but it’s still a fact of my life atm. I’ve done some rudimentary power tests, and I can drop the power down to ~5 W, but the N4’s response time is poor, to say the least, when it comes to collision detection.
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forcefed
Active Member
The necespow can be dual charged with usb-c and a 12v car adapter, look at the second picture https://www.amazon.com/gp/B08ZDG6C15
I did the math on the 256Wh ecoflow and my minimum 30min of driving 5 days a week i do and it just doesn't have the capacity for 24/7 monitoring with a 7w dashcam load.
The main issue here seems to be the 100w charging speed, 2.5hours of charging @ 100w just isn't enough. Either i drive 12hours a week to replenish the ecoflow or turn off the camera when i'm home. Even if i get a giant 5000Wh battery the 100w charging speed isn't enough. Maybe if i find an inverter that can be attached to a switched fuse @ 20-30a or one that is attached to the car battery but only turns on with a 12v signal, and recharge the ecoflow at full ac power will solve the issue, but that's getting a bit ridiculous for 24/7 monitoring in my case.
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DigitalCorpus
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What are the specs of that power input? I see 12V/24V but I’m not certain of how much current that jack is rated for. That dual input would seem work as long as I can get power to my trunk, which is a me problem.
forcefed
Active Member
I'm going to guess another 65w since they have 16v/4a on their site http://www.necespow-tech.com/product/7.html
