Parking Battery-Power Station, 3X capacity and 3X cheaper than dedicated options + extra functionality

[menas]

I've just remembered a post from @viofu where a capacitor is used to prevent the dashcam shutting down when using relays. Could it be a solution for our issue ?

Post in thread 'Viofo 3 wire kit' https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/viofo-3-wire-kit.40370/post-508099

 

[GPak]

Thank you very much. It's really a pity that Baseus advertises 140W while it's not the case. Do you also confirm that it's totally impossible to run any UPS fast enough using the 5V USB-OUT of the PS?

I would not say it is impossible , simply so far I was not able to find fast enough 5V UPS/Relay/Double power transfer switch.
I am not sure about Capacitor with the Relay, some testing needed, it was used to power A119V3 camera, not so demanding and similar to Mini2, I guess.
As noted earlier UPS also works for Mini2 in 5V system.
However the problem is with the new, very sensitive and intolerant to tiniest power disruption DVRs, such as A229Pro/Plus and A139 Pro, which work with the same UPS in 12V system but not 5V system.

On a good note:
Today, I received the first in the list, 5V to 12V converter, I measured the unloaded output voltage and it is good at 12.13V.
Tomorrow, I will test Baseus PS with this Converter and UPS to power A229Plus with HK4, set to 11.8V cutoff, and will videotape and post.

 

[menas]

I would not say it is impossible , simply so far I was not able to find fast enough 5V UPS/Relay/Double power transfer switch.
I am not sure about Capacitor with the Relay, some testing needed, it was used to power A119V3 camera, not so demanding and similar to Mini2, I guess.
The noted earlier UPS also works for Mini2 in 5V system.
However the problem is with the new, very sensitive and intolerant to tiniest power disruption DVRs, such as A229Pro/Plus and A139 Pro, which work with the same UPS in 12V system but not 5V system.

On a good note:
Today, I received the first in the list, 5V to 12V converter, I measured the unloaded output voltage and it is good at 12.13V.
Tomorrow, I will test Baseus PS with this Converter and UPS to power A229Plus with HK4, set to 11.8V cutoff, and will videotape and post.

Thank you very much, let's hope this will be working!

P.S.: They mention that the device you have purchased converts e.g. 5V@3A to 12V@1.25A, then if I understand well, the HK4 will convert this back to something close to 5V@3A? In other words, the current would need to be re-increased, or else the current received by the DVR will be insufficient.

 

[GPak]

Thank you very much, let's hope this will be working!

P.S.: They mention that the device you have purchased converts e.g. 5V@3A to 12V@1.25A, then if I understand well, the HK4 will convert this back to something close to 5V@3A? In other words, the current would need to be re-increased, or else the current received by the DVR will be insufficient.

Those are the max rated values.
Required power is defined by DVR, for A229Pro, 3Ch, it is about 7W, including HK4.
HK4 converts 12V back to about 5.4V, hence current to DVR would be 7W/5.4V=1.3A
Back to PS, current out of Converter would be 7W/12V=0.65A (about 50% of rated 1.25A)
We can estimate 5V to 12V converter efficiency at 90%, hence current out of USB-A port and into Converter would be (7W/0.9)/5=1.55A (also about 50% of rated 3A)
Nothing comes for free, any time we add Converter or any other component we reduce overall efficiency, in this case parking time will be reduced roughly by 10%, in exchange to faster charging (we hope) and most importantly to added reliability by bypassing power to DVR from PS.

 

[GPak]

Here is the benchmark test (without the UPS yet) for the 5V to 12V Converter to run 12V system.
This converter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/B0C1C848DD

This also should work for EcoFlow River series of PS.

Next I will test it with UPS.

 

[menas]

This is very helpful, thank you!

It's reassuring to see that charging using the DC5521 and 100W (90W) work, and so frustrating that Baseus doesn't communicate on the failure about the 140W.

As you've explained, depending on the limiting factor which is actually the duration the car engine in running per day, we either:
1) lose 10% of parking recording time (because of the loss brought by the 5V-to-12V converter),
2) or 10% (100W vs. 90W) of charging capacity of the PS, in which case DC-out should be used instead of the USB-A 5V-to-12V converter (because if the so-called 100W, but actually 90W PD-3.0 charger is used, then the DC-out is functional)

 

[GPak]

Yes with USB-C charging we can/should use 12VDC out, I just wanted to test that converter keeping in mind EcoFlow PS
BTW, I send email and first two videos to Baseus support and they are responsive and reviewing it now.

Here are couple of videos with UPS, not so straight forward results. I will check other converters soon.

 

[menas]

To sum it up, the most reliable way for the time being is to use a USB PD 3.0 labeled at 100W (measured at 90W) to charge the PS while driving, and to use the 5521 DC-out of the PS connected the UPS for the parking mode. In such case, there's no need for the DC converter, which would solve the issue of reliability and power loss of approx. 10% you mentioned earlier.

If only Baseus could patch the issue of the 140W with some software update!

 

[GPak]

To sum it up, the most reliable way for the time being is to use a USB PD 3.0 labeled at 100W (measured at 90W) to charge the PS while driving, and to use the 5521 DC-out of the PS connected the UPS for the parking mode. In such case, there's no need for the DC converter, which would solve the issue of reliability and power loss of approx. 10% you mentioned earlier.

If only Baseus could patch the issue of the 140W with some software update!

Correct!

Tested all tree converters (4s one was 5V to 5V, so I removed it from the list).
USB-C is most reliable one, it is not really converter but USB-C to 12VDC cable, hence does not consumes additional energy, it simply requests 12V from Power Stations USB-C port.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/B0CSB9W2Z9 or similar.
Nevertheless, they all work (or do not work) the same way.

So, if we want to use UPS then only option is to charge with USB-C PD at about 90W max.
If we do not use UPS then I would charge with 12VDC IN at 100W and run either 5V system or 12V using USB-C to 12VDC cable.

If I get solution on 140W charging from Baseus Support team I will differently post here.

 

[menas]

Hello,

Just a quick message to say that I've just remembered that the PS can be charged using 2 ports simultaneously. Therefore we could theoretically charge it at approx. 200W.

In this case (not 100% sure of what I'm going to say):
1) either the UPS should be abandonned,
2) or the 5V USB-A could be used, therefore the voltage step down converter of the HK4 kit should be removed. However, I think that keeping it could be an advantage to make the circuit more robust againt voltage drop caused by a long cable (from the front dashcam to the trunk, where the PS is).
3) or, assuming both the cigar socket output and the DC5521input can be used simultaneously, then the HK4 could remain intact and the UPS could be used. This would be, I guess, the ideal case.

In the video below, at 11 min:

 

[GPak]

This Is great! Good finding @menas ! Thank you.
There is no information in manual that this PS supports simultaneous dual charging!

I am currently not home traveling for US holiday. When back on Wednesday I will test it to confirm.
I am not sure current UPS will work with dual 12VDC+USB-CPD. (it did not work with single 12VDC charging)
By the way I have another UPS on order, waiting from China/Ali Express (the red one which I used in 4S LTO battery)

In any case I agree with you that it it is better to keep original HK4 in tact
We can run 12V system (with or without UPS) using USB-C to 12V cable, which does not consume additional energy, since it is not a converter but simply requests 12V from power stations USB-C port, hence parking duration will not be affected.

 

[menas]

This Is great! Good finding @menas ! Thank you.
There is no information in manual that this PS supports simultaneous dual charging!

I am currently not home traveling for US holiday. When back on Wednesday I will test it to confirm.
I am not sure current UPS will work with dual 12VDC+USB-CPD. (it did not work with single 12VDC charging)
By the way I have another UPS on order, waiting from China/Ali Express (the red one which I used in 4S LTO battery)

In any case I agree with you that it it is better to keep original HK4 in tact
We can run 12V system (with or without UPS) using USB-C to 12V cable, which does not consume additional energy, since it is not a converter but simply requests 12V from power stations USB-C port, hence parking duration will not be affected.

Enjoy your holidays, and thank you for taking the time to test this, as I don't have all the hardware to do that by myself.

 

[kawayanan]

So, I got around to setting up my NECESPOW N-300 that I described in a previous post. The idea was to use dual charging (USB-C and 12V) while the vehicle is running (to increase the charge rate) while also being setup to charge via a solar panel when the vehicle was off. Long story short - it wasn't worth it. The NECESPOW wall and car chargers are 4amp, and it appears that the dual charging is limited to roughly the same number of watts as you can do via a single charging method. I had noticed earlier that my PS seemed to only want to take about 50w via USB-C. If I used just the DC input (was at about 14V), I also seem to top out around 50W. If I connect both, it drops the wattage through both and may actually end up with a lower total. In any case, I will go back to using just the USB-C from the vehicle and the DC input from the solar panel.

 

[GPak]

Tested Baseus PS with simultaneous dual source charging.
Unfortunately results are not consistent and not predictable, mostly worse than single source charging.
Max charge rate could briefly reach to 130W+, but it won’t stay there, jumping ±20W and quickly drops down to about 60W or so. I used different Cigar chargers rated at 100W and 65W, played with grounds, tested on bench and in a car, nothing would stabilize the charging rate, with or without UPS.
It appears that the PS is not really designed to support simultaneous dual charging and that’s why there is no information about it in manual.

So we are back to single charging source at up to 100W max with 12VDC or up to 90W max with USB-C depending on SoC and internal temps.

 

[menas]

Tested Baseus PS with simultaneous dual source charging.
Unfortunately results are not consistent and not predictable, mostly worse than single source charging.
Max charge rate could briefly reach to 130W+, but it won’t stay there, jumping ±20W and quickly drops down to about 60W or so. I used different Cigar chargers rated at 100W and 65W, played with grounds, tested on bench and in a car, nothing would stabilize the charging rate, with or without UPS.
It appears that the PS is not really designed to support simultaneous dual charging and that’s why there is no information about it in manual.

So we are back to single charging source at up to 100W max with 12VDC or up to 90W max with USB-C depending on SoC and internal temps.

Thank you for your feedback @GPak
May I ask you if you have tested the option #3 of my previous message please?

That is to say, using the DC5521 input to benefit from 100W charging, and the cigarette lighter output to trigger the UPS. In this case, there would be no need to remove the HK4 step-down module, but that would imply that the DC5521 inlet and the cig-lighter outlet can work simultaneously.

 

[GPak]

Thank you for your feedback @GPak
May I ask you if you have tested the option #3 of my previous message please?

That is to say, using the DC5521 input to benefit from 100W charging, and the cigarette lighter output to trigger the UPS. In this case, there would be no need to remove the HK4 step-down module, but that would imply that the DC5521 inlet and the cig-lighter outlet can work simultaneously.

I did check that option, PS Cig-lighter outlet and DC5521 Out port are paralleled and both are not functional when charging with 12VDC In port.
Also when charging with 12VDC, UPS does not work in any configuration i.e. with 5V to 12V converters or USB-C, 5 to 12V cable.
So, with 12VDC charging there would be no UPS, but you can keep HK4, if using USB-C, 5 to 12V cable.
No efficiency loss, since USB-C cable is not a converter.

With USB-CPD charging, UPS works, both, from 12V DC5521 outlet or you can use the same USB-C, 5 to 12V cable.

 

[GPak]

So, I got around to setting up my NECESPOW N-300 that I described in a previous post. The idea was to use dual charging (USB-C and 12V) while the vehicle is running (to increase the charge rate) while also being setup to charge via a solar panel when the vehicle was off. Long story short - it wasn't worth it. The NECESPOW wall and car chargers are 4amp, and it appears that the dual charging is limited to roughly the same number of watts as you can do via a single charging method. I had noticed earlier that my PS seemed to only want to take about 50w via USB-C. If I used just the DC input (was at about 14V), I also seem to top out around 50W. If I connect both, it drops the wattage through both and may actually end up with a lower total. In any case, I will go back to using just the USB-C from the vehicle and the DC input from the solar panel.

Not sure why such a low charge rate. Schematic looks good.
I would suggest to test dual charging on a bench without any relays and solar, using 12VDC splitter and couple of Cig Chargers, one for USB-C and another one for 12VDC. This is to make sure there is nothing wrong with PS itself.

Here what I got:
While testing Baseus PS for dual charging, I also re-tested N300 for dual charging in my Jeep.
Theoretically N300 can charge at 60W rate with USB-C + at 12V*4A=48W rate with 12VDC, for total of up to 108W.
I couldn’t verify the power IN but measured voltage and amperage, hence power, at the Jeep's Cigar socket as:
12.5V * 9A = 112.5W.
Assuming charge efficiency about 0.9, then the real charge rate into N300 PS was about 0.9*112.5=101W
I will run N300 in my jeep for a week in dual charge configuration to ensure it is stable.

 

[menas]

T

I did check that option, PS Cig-lighter outlet and DC5521 Out port are paralleled and both are not functional when charging with 12VDC In port.
Also when charging with 12VDC, UPS does not work in any configuration i.e. with 5V to 12V converters or USB-C, 5 to 12V cable.
So, with 12VDC charging there would be no UPS, but you can keep HK4, if using USB-C, 5 to 12V cable.
No efficiency loss, since USB-C cable is not a converter.

With USB-CPD charging, UPS works, both, from 12V DC5521 outlet or you can use the same USB-C, 5 to 12V cable.

Thank you very much for your reply. I'm still waiting for the UPS (the black one you mentioned) and the 100W USB charger to be delivered.