Rear End Accident !

What does 'Yellow Light' mean in the Canadian highway code?
Canadian here. A yellow light means "you must stop unless it is unsafe to do so."

1. CRV was not able to stop safely, so they should not have stopped. "Stopping safely" involves stopping before the stop line, not after it. They stopped in the crosswalk, which is part of the intersection.
2. Cameron had inadequate following distance, and wasn't paying sufficient attention.
3. Cameron wasn't prepared to stop for the light-- despite having plenty of space to do so.

My verdict: despite the CRV stopping when they shouldn't have, the fault is 100% on Cameron, for not leaving enough following distance, and not paying close enough attention.
 
I still think cam driver was paying attention, just that he/ she got caught out, wrong assumption was made, cam car wanted to go through lights (or at least the one second following distance put cam driver in no man's land) and CRV unfairly punished Cam driver. Lesson learnt for cam driver......I think.
 
I don't believe there was anything unfair on the part of the CRV driver. The second car followed too closely and if he had intended to speed through the intersection, then he would've been guilty of running the yellow light. We see these types of accidents in the Russian videos all the time. The CRV driver may have had a delayed reaction, but he was still able to stop before the point where he would be in the path of cross traffic. The following vehicle should've been able to stop had he been paying attention, but I suspect he was fiddling with the radio judging by the sudden jump in music volume at the time of impact.

KuoH

...cam car wanted to go through lights (or at least the one second following distance put cam driver in no man's land) and CRV unfairly punished Cam driver. Lesson learnt for cam driver......I think.
 
Canadian here. A yellow light means "you must stop unless it is unsafe to do so."
devil's advocate: if the crv knew he had a tailgater, that made it unsafe to stop, but he stopped anyway.

that said, cam car was following too close for wet roads. maybe even too close for dry conditions.
 
If the CRV had collided with cross traffic because he decided not to stop, the excuse that he was avoiding a crash with a tailgater would never hold up in court. The only way it would be an unsafe stop is if the light was green and he stopped for no reason.

KuoH

devil's advocate: if the crv knew he had a tailgater, that made it unsafe to stop, but he stopped anyway.
 
By saying unfairly punishing the cam car driver I didn't imply that they knew cam car was very close behind and they intentionally braked, how would I know that. What I meant was the CRV made the bad decision of stopping like that.
Cam driver to me, only takes 1/4 of second to brake after seeing the CRV brake.
 
I simply don't agree that the stop was a bad decision. He was reacting appropriately to the yellow light and it wasn't like he locked up the wheels and slid to a stop. It was a controlled stop, maybe 10 feet farther than ideal, but still more appropriate than running the light. Regardless, unless the CRV did a swoop & squat or actually shifted into reverse and rammed the other car, the fault lies entirely with the trailing driver. He was simply driving inappropriately for the conditions and/or being inattentive.

When travelling towards intersections, a driver needs to observe both the light as well as the traffic in front. The CRV driver took about half a second to react to the change, which I would assume is probably average or just slightly slower than. Even if the trailing driver took only a quarter second to react to the CRV, he was already quite late to react to the traffic light. Even if he had a clear road ahead, he would've still ran through or be very close to running a red light, which is a bad habit to have.

KuoH

What I meant was the CRV made the bad decision of stopping like that.
Cam driver to me, only takes 1/4 of second to brake after seeing the CRV brake.
 
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...the CRV made the bad decision of stopping like that.
Cam driver to me, only takes 1/4 of second to brake after seeing the CRV brake.

No, the cam car driver made the bad decision of following so close that he/she couldn't stop if the CRV did - regardless of the conditions/circumstances.
 
Even if the trailing driver took only a quarter second to react to the CRV, he was already quite late to react to the traffic light.
Yep, to me the cammer looked like he was either staring at the CRV's brake lights (not paying attention to the traffic light), or he was intending to run the very-late yellow.
 
devil's advocate: if the crv knew he had a tailgater, that made it unsafe to stop, but he stopped anyway.
My counter-argument is that you can't really know what's going on behind you-- you have an idea of where the car is, but many drivers really don't regularly check their mirrors, and the law knows that.

Up here, the tailgating driver wouldn't be able to use that argument in court. Cammer rear-ended the CRV, end of story. CRV is responsible for what's in front of him, as is the cammer. If the cammer doesn't have enough space to stop safely, then he's not safe. What if the CRV jammed on the brakes for a kid that ran out onto the road? Or an aggressive pedestrian that starts crossing before they have a green light?

An example of mine, a few years ago I was driving through a pass in Utah, behind a gas cylinder truck. It lost control on a curve, and its back end spun off the road. Front end was blocking the road. I wanted nothing to do with that truck full of flammable/explosive gas cylinders! I had to jam on my brakes, but I had a concern: my buddy was behind me, and I didn't want him smashing into me, or the bikes on the back of my car. Egads! No time to check how close he was following at that moment, as I was focused on the **** in front of me! I just tried not to panic-stop, and got a little closer to the action than I wanted to be. Buddy did his panic stop, he had enough following distance, and nobody else behind us crashed. Everybody got a gold star for safe driving, other than the gas cylinder truck, which drove carefully for the next 5 minutes, then started speeding crazy fast on the turns again. I kept much more distance this time!
 
everyone seems to be forgetting the second half of my post:
devil's advocate: if the crv knew he had a tailgater, that made it unsafe to stop, but he stopped anyway.

that said, cam car was following too close for wet roads. maybe even too close for dry conditions.

if i knew someone was tailgating me, i'd hesitate to slam on the brakes the way the crv did. the crv probably could have made it through the intersection before it turned red, but cam car would have probably run the red or at least still have been in the intersection when it turned red. in the states, you're technically still legal if you're completely past the stop line when it turns red. that's not ideal of course, but you can't be given a ticket for running a red light in that situation. red light cameras here are actually required to show two photos - one of you completely in FRONT of the stop line (where you should be stopping) while it's red, and another of you actually in the intersection while it's red. they'll usually also have timestamps showing when it turned red and when you entered the intersection.

but hey, maybe this was an intersection with a red light camera, and CRV didn't want a red light ticket so he said "to hell with it" and stood on the brakes.

regardless - i still maintain that the cam car was tailgating. even if it hadn't been wet/raining, he probably still couldn't have stopped in time.

as for proper following distance... a fellow miata driver and I were out having fun on some twisties. i specifically told him not to follow me very close because I knew the road well, he didn't, and there were some tricky turns that could get him in trouble - he was still a new driver at that point. unfortunately, he followed me too close into a decreasing radius turn, and when he saw me start to brake mid-turn (i left-foot brake on the twisties just like i do on the race course) he panicked and lifted then braked too hard, and spun out into the inside of the turn. he was very lucky that he ended up backwards between two trees, and that he didn't go 5 feet further down the road before spinning - he'd have gone down into a ravine. a couple harley drivers stopped to make sure we were OK and to help us get the car out of the sand it stopped in. tell you what, my heart dropped thru the floor when i saw him disappear into the weeds/trees in my mirrors.

Heading into that fateful turn - note the green tree on the right side:
DSCN6886.JPG

After. you can see that same tree that was in the right of teh picture above.
DSCN6887.JPG

needless to say, he was a VERY timid driver for the rest of the drive.
 
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You guys seem to think I am laying some blame on the CRV, I am not and apologise for giving that impression, I simply mean unfairly punishing cam driver( according to the cam driver).
I have been saying all along that the accident is 100% the fault of cam car, and the root cause of the accident is the following distance being only about one second.

The fact that the CRV took some time to hit brakes might have given the cam driver the idea they were both going through this light, and might explain why it took cammer 2 or more tenths of a second to hit brakes. Cammer may have been fixated at going through the light when the CRV didn't immediately react to the Orange lights and might just have confused cammer initially and this explains the delayed reaction.
Or cammer maybe wasn't paying attention for 2 tenths of a second.
Or cammer wasn't paying attention for a few seconds prior to lights going Orange and the CRV's brakes got cammer's attention.

How can we know for sure cammer was or wasn't paying attention.
cammer has no clue at what a safe gap is, therefore it is likely that cammer also has no clue at what to immediately do when someone hits their brakes.
 
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dashy - i don't think anyone is saying that you are placing blame on the CRV. i sort of played devil's advocate and placed a little blame on him, but there's no doubt that the cam car holds like 99% of the blame in this crash.

also - 0.2 seconds is a REALLY good reaction time. in red-light drag racing where there's no warning before it goes green, reaction times are typically in the neighborhood of a half a second. granted, that includes the time it takes for the car to actually start moving, but in drag racing they're getting moving pretty darn quick. in this instance, it apparently only took 0.2 seconds from teh time the CRV hit the brakes till we start to see the cam car nosedive from hitting his own brakes. that tells me the cam car was probably already covering the brakes, expecting the crv to stop. but cam car didn't give himself enough room, so... boom.
 
Exactly,
the only thing sure that caused the accident was the lack of safe distance. The delayed braking by cam car could be to different reasons than not paying attention. And I say this because it was only half a second and not over one second
 
A possible explanation for my choice of words might very well be that yesterday was my birthday :) and today I am still feeling the after effects :( - 'nuff said.
Happy birthday DT MI! Also, you are correct in the USA the charge would be failing to maintain an assured clear distance ahead. Entering an intersection without exercising due care an caution could be applicable as well.
 
According to YouTube, it was OP's buddy with the dash cam, driver admitted having bad tyres and gave info on the damage, so we can excuse OP for posting in both sections.
Would be interesting to hear the driver's opinion.
 
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