REDTIGER - F17 Elite 3 Channel Dashcam - Review

Why would 25 fps be inadmissible? It can still show people in court what happened just the same, no? I could see people having issues playing back videos if they don't support certain codecs, sure, but why would 24/25 fps not hold up in court?
 
Vortex Radar said:
Why would 25 fps be inadmissible? It can still show people in court what happened just the same, no? I could see people having issues playing back videos if they don't support certain codecs, sure, but why would 24/25 fps not hold up in court?
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There is some kind of legality where a lawyer if aware of the law can throw it out. Dashmellow talked on the phone twice before he passed. he was extrmely educated on it. the only reason why he was is because he had a legal battle many years ago. Now keep in mind it could be for his state and not federal law. I can not remember specifically if it was federal or not.

He was adamanat
That it needed to be MP4 / H.264 / and minimum 30fps
H.265 was not admissable.

Now keep in mind laws change on a frequent basis so this could have been updated by now. However most car accidents I would like to think are settled without lawyers involved and submitting video footage shows your innocence. Most car accidents are settled that way in Canada.
 
What Dashmellow was referring to was the fact a lawyer can squash 24 FPS videos based on missed actions, and on how the eye/mind interprets the video. CCTV is around 15 or 16 FPS as I recall and it is often used in court. It boils down to how astute the lawyer is and what the judge will allow, but 24 FPS is just as admissible as CCTV which is usually a lower frame rate. I had to hunt this article down, but it gives a good explanation. Paragraph 6 has the real meat but the entire article is worth reading.

Videos, Frame Rates and Courts
 
Chuck McCoy said:
4K Dash Cam Minimum Standard;
1.) Resolution: 3840 x 2160
2.) Framerate: 30fps
I don’t dispute IMX678, however if it runs at 25fps it’s a FAKE.

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“Fake 4K” IMO implies a sensor that’s fundamentally incapable of capturing at 3840x2160 due to physically not having enough pixels and manufacturers lie their way there by upscaling via interpolation.

Frame rate is a separate issue. The reason we’ve traditionally looked for frame rates is because they can be an easy tell for when a dashcam is unable to properly record at 4K, especially when manufacturers try and withhold sensor information from their customers. Fake 4K dashcams usually sell for far less than real 4K dashcams and I’d assume they also use cheaper processors to help achieve that price point. For that reason, you may see them also cut corners on frame rate too.

However, just because it’s not recording at 30 fps does NOT also mean that it’s not a 4K camera. (Also sorry for using a triple negative lol.) Again, 4K refers to resolution, not frame rate. You can do 4K Timelapse at 1 fps and it’s still recording at 3840x2160.

We can debate the importance of 24 vs 25 vs 30 vs 50 vs 60fps, but you can record in true 4K at any of those frame rates.
 
Chuck McCoy said:
I agree 100% with everything you said.
However, I would argue the “industry standard” for 4K “dash cams” is 30fps.
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Perhaps this is an issue in semantics then, because even though I agree that 30fps should be the standard, I wouldn't necessarily say that the F17 is a fake 4K dashcam the way most of Redtiger's other dashcams are.

For example, I believe Redtiger's F7NS uses a 2K IMX335 (unless that's changed with newer variants), but still advertises 3840x2160 @ 30fps. Would you say that that makes it a "true" 4K dashcam?
 
SafeDriveSolutions said:
Now keep in mind laws change on a frequent basis so this could have been updated by now. However most car accidents I would like to think are settled without lawyers involved and submitting video footage shows your innocence. Most car accidents are settled that way in Canada.
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That's a good point.

Another point is, that it is different for every country anyway.
In Germany for example all the police-car-videosystems shoot 24fps or 25fps.
In Europe, I think I never heard of any frame-rate-related issues. If there are discussions, it's how the european data protection law is interpreted.

Apart from that, from a quality-point of view I do also prefere 30fps
 
DashcamDriversGermany said:
That's a good point.

Another point is, that it is different for every country anyway.
In Germany for example all the police-car-videosystems shoot 24fps or 25fps.
In Europe, I think I never heard of any frame-rate-related issues. If there are discussions, it's how the european data protection law is interpreted.

Apart from that, from a quality-point of view I do also prefere 30fps
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25 fps is also more common in Europe since you use PAL instead of NTSC like we do in North America.
 
Vortex Radar said:
25 fps is also more common in Europe since you use PAL instead of NTSC like we do in North America.
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Not really anymore. Only for any kind of official authorities or any kind of public-institutions because with our bureaucracy any innovation needs like 25+ more years than anywhere else 🤡
 
Vortex Radar said:
Perhaps this is an issue in semantics
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I agree, I misspoke, I take it all back.
I’m willing to accept any punishment up to, and including public flogging. lol
Vortex Radar said:
For example, I believe Redtiger's F7NS uses a 2K IMX335 (unless that's changed with newer variants), but still advertises 3840x2160 @ 30fps. Would you say that that makes it a "true" 4K dashcam?
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I’m confused, 4K requires minimum 8MP sensor right?
 
Chuck McCoy said:
I’m confused, 4K requires minimum 8MP sensor right?
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Yep. The issue is when you use a lower resolution sensor and upscale it.

IMX335 (2K) is ~5MP (5.69M pixels, 5.14M effective pixels, and 5.04M recommended recording pixels)
IMX675 (2K) is ~5MP (5.17M pixels, 5.12M effective pixels, and 5.03M recommended recording pixels)
IMX678 (4K) is ~8MP (8.48M pixels, 8.40M effective pixels, and 8.29M recommended recording pixels)

You can look up the data sheets to see what that translates to in terms of horizontal/vertical resolutions relative to 3840x2160. The limitation is that you can upscale to 1000MP if you want, but that doesn't add any additional detail since you're still capturing at a lower resolution.

We can also dive into the weeds on what "4K" really even means (see this article) and which resolutions and aspect ratios qualify, but we should probably take that to another thread instead of further derailing @xenen's review. Sorry about that!
 
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