SGDCHW Add-A-Fuse Micro 2’s Don’t Fit Ford F150

[HonestReview]

I know its not popular, but always read the manual

Well I don't own a street guardian so my camera was wired properly to Viofo's Specs. I didn't know this standard varied by manufacturer and wasn't universal. Quite weird. To be honest, Red is generally associated with a "Hot Wire" in wiring schematics. So Street Guardian's choice to use yellow seems backwards vs. Viofo's choice to use Red for constant power.

 

[HonestReview]

http://bit.ly/HardwireManualEN

My question to you would be why would yellow be selected as constant / battery? In most wiring schematics red is always seen as positive or a hot wire. Seems the choice to use yellow is counter to what most understand for basic wiring.

 

[Street Guardian USA]

You’re only used to because half the dashcams out there have it that way now.

Google around and search for any other non-DashCam vehicle electronics that have been around for decades.
Red is ACC
Yellow is BAT+

 

[HonestReview]

You’re only used to because half the dashcams out there have it that way now.

Google around and search for any other non-DashCam vehicle electronics that have been around for decades.
Red is ACC
Yellow is BAT+

Look at wiring inside a house. Black is ground. Red is positive / hot. Seems that logic would carry over into electronics, since that's what most have become accustomed to understand. Using yellow seems to go against common wiring practice.

Example:

Polarity symbols are used where the polarity of a terminal or wire must be identified. An electrical color code or other conventions may be used. In DC circuits, the positive pole is usually marked red (or "+") and the negative pole is usually marked black (or "−"), but other color schemes are sometimes used in automotive and telecommunications systems.

On a car battery, the positive pole usually has a larger diameter than the negative pole. Modern cars have the negative terminal of the battery connected to the vehicle's body, and the positive terminal provides the live wire to the various systems. Older cars were built with the positive terminal of the battery bonded to the chassis.

Plug Sockets. Red is Hot / Black is ground.

 

[Street Guardian USA]

Well it’s in a vehicle and three wires through. You could say Red and Yellow are both “hot” when you’re driving at least. Black is always ground. Yellow has been ACC on the back of car audio stereos for multiple decades well before dashcams.

 

[jokiin]

My question to you would be why would yellow be selected as constant / battery?

because it's the industry standard in automotive

 

[kamkar]

To me it sort of make sense.

The red wire which are always + voltage in DC systems, but if it is just a 2 wire setup ( + and - X volts ) then the + is something you have control over by flicking a switch, so a + source that need user interaction to become live.
Now if you then go to 3 wires which are needed often in cars for stuff, then it make sense to have the red wire as ACC ( turn of key / switch / user interaction ) to be on, but i have no idea why yellow then was selected to be the always on wire color, maybe that relate to standards in other things.

 

[Deacon]

Look at wiring inside a house. Black is ground. Red is positive / hot.

That’s very dependent on various regional standards for mains electrics. Here in the US black is hot, white is neutral, and ground is bare (no jacket of any color). When more than one hot wire is switched like for ceiling fans that have a light kit and you can turn the fan and the light off and on with their own switch in the wall, the additional switched legs are actually red.

In the 12V automotive world, we think of the most basic version is of course red for positive, black for negative/ground. But it’s actually red for power to the load. So when you start adding switched legs, it’s the red that’s positive/hot when switched on, providing power to the load, just like in US houses. Yellow is used for constant battery power. Many automotive accessories are very simplistic and don’t need to differentiate, but for others that do, like aftermarket stereos and such, it’s been that way for many, many years.

 

[HonestReview]

To me it sort of make sense.

The red wire which are always + voltage in DC systems, but if it is just a 2 wire setup ( + and - X volts ) then the + is something you have control over by flicking a switch, so a + source that need user interaction to become live.
Now if you then go to 3 wires which are needed often in cars for stuff, then it make sense to have the red wire as ACC ( turn of key / switch / user interaction ) to be on, but i have no idea why yellow then was selected to be the always on wire color, maybe that relate to standards in other things.

My point exactly. Why wouldn't Red be "+" as is standard elsewhere. Whomever selected Yellow to be Battery or Always on certainly didn't have a grasp of industry standards.

None the less, I learned something new. There's no standardization.

 

[HonestReview]

That’s very dependent on various regional standards for mains electrics. Here in the US black is hot, white is neutral, and ground is bare (no jacket of any color). When more than one hot wire is switched like for ceiling fans that have a light kit and you can turn the fan and the light off and on with their own switch in the wall, the additional switched legs are actually red.

In the 12V automotive world, we think of the most basic version is of course red for positive, black for negative/ground. But it’s actually red for power to the load. So when you start adding switched legs, it’s the red that’s positive/hot when switched on, providing power to the load, just like in US houses. Yellow is used for constant battery power. Many automotive accessories are very simplistic and don’t need to differentiate, but for others that do, like aftermarket stereos and such, it’s been that way for many, many years.

That's not true on two wire configurations. Car battery. Red + Black -. Plug Sockets. Red + Black -. Now you are right, when more wires are added, that all seems to change.

It just seems very odd to not use a standard uniform system. Whereas one company X Y Z and another Y X Z.

None the less, I learned something new on wiring Dash Cameras. Which will help when my Zenfox Beta Camera shows up. I'll be sure to check their schematic on the hardwire kit for proper installation.

 

[Deacon]

That's not true on two wire configurations. Car battery. Red + Black -. Plug Sockets. Red + Black -. Now you are right, when more wires are added, that all seems to change.

Well, no, it's not that it changes. It's that we think of it more simplistically than is actually true. Red is for the power to the load. It's not just "positive" or "power" or "hot" or however we might think of it in more simplistic terms. Yes, those simplistic terms work out fine most of the time, and if we look at an automotive battery hookup that's how we think of it, but then it causes confusion later.

It just seems very odd to not use a standard uniform system. Whereas one company X Y Z and another Y X Z.

Some companies follow the actual standard uniform system (e.g. SG), while others break from the standard (e.g. VIOFO). I realize you had VIOFO's setup first, and their non-standard choices lined up more with your assumptions, and that's completely understandable. In fact, VIOFO may well have made that decision specifically because they knew a lot of customers weren't aware of the standard and would get it backwards. Who knows? But if you would've used SG's first, VIOFO would've seemed to the be the one that's backwards

 

[HonestReview]

Well, no, it's not that it changes. It's that we think of it more simplistically than is actually true. Red is for the power to the load. It's not just "positive" or "power" or "hot" or however we might think of it in more simplistic terms. Yes, those simplistic terms work out fine most of the time, and if we look at an automotive battery hookup that's how we think of it, but then it causes confusion later.


Some companies follow the actual standard uniform system (e.g. SG), while others break from the standard (e.g. VIOFO). I realize you had VIOFO's setup first, and their non-standard choices lined up more with your assumptions, and that's completely understandable. In fact, VIOFO may well have made that decision specifically because they knew a lot of customers weren't aware of the standard and would get it backwards. Who knows? But if you would've used SG's first, VIOFO would've seemed to the be the one that's backwards

Well to the original point, OP needs to check his wiring and fuses. I had an oddity where my alarm system and folding mirrors was tied into the 12V socket fuse. Of course, this wasn't mentioned in the manual for my vehicle. Locking my car, enabling the alarm, and folding the mirrors caused the camera to power on from an off position. So I had to switch fuses and all was well thereafter.

Now to your point, you are right. Being that I went with Viofo and their schematic lined up to "popular conception (or misconception)" I was under the impression wiring was universal. It is not. Which even though I'm wrong, am glad I asked, because I now learned something new. It'll prevent me from making assumptions about hardwiring int he future. Course, I would have checked manual on any item I bought before "jumping right in".

None the less, I think OP's issue is most likely related to the selection of an improper fuse.

 

[SawMaster]

I

That’s very dependent on various regional standards for mains electrics. Here in the US black is hot, white is neutral, and ground is bare (no jacket of any color). When more than one hot wire is switched like for ceiling fans that have a light kit and you can turn the fan and the light off and on with their own switch in the wall, the additional switched legs are actually red.

Not quite. Here in the US now for residential house wiring ground if jacketed is green or can be bare, and no other usage is allowed for green wires. If an appliance requires a separate cabinet ground, it must be green while the working ground is bare. You are now also required to use only green colored wire nuts (connectors) on ground circuits, although no color is specified for other approved ground wire connectors or for other uses. With Romex (non-metallic sheathed) /3 cables (used to be called /3wg), the 4th conductor is usually red but can actually be any color other than black, white, green, or bare. You used to occasionally see an orange wire there but it seems the cable manufacturers now use only red for this application (not sure if that was a requirement on their end or what). When upgrading non-grounded polarized systems now, the added ground wire must also be green only, though bare was once permitted in this use.

Thankfully everyone here uses the latest NEC (National Electric Code), but for the other parts of Building codes, I normally work in 6 different Code Enforcement districts to 4 different Building Codes, and it can sometimes drive you crazy

Phil

 

[HonestReview]

I


Not quite. Here in the US now for residential house wiring ground if jacketed is green or can be bare, and no other usage is allowed for green wires. If an appliance requires a separate cabinet ground, it must be green while the working ground is bare. You are now also required to use only green colored wire nuts (connectors) on ground circuits, although no color is specified for other approved ground wire connectors or for other uses. With Romex (non-metallic sheathed) /3 cables (used to be called /3wg), the 4th conductor is usually red but can actually be any color other than black, white, green, or bare. You used to occasionally see an orange wire there but it seems the cable manufacturers now use only red for this application (not sure if that was a requirement on their end or what). When upgrading non-grounded polarized systems now, the added ground wire must also be green only, though bare was once permitted in this use.

Thankfully everyone here uses the latest NEC (National Electric Code), but for the other parts of Building codes, I normally work in 6 different Code Enforcement districts to 4 different Building Codes, and it can sometimes drive you crazy

Phil

Seems like it'd make life much simpler if manufacturers agreed to a uniform specification for all wire coloring. What sounds simple appears to be foreign and rocket science... Wild Wild West of Electrical Wiring.

 

[SawMaster]

It's not the component manufacturers but the ICBO and the NEC who set the standards- and then change them every few years mostly to justify them keeping their jobs it seems, since there's been no significant safety improvements to US residential wiring since GFCI outlets were mandated for wet areas, but plenty of changes have been made since then. And if you think this is complex, give Commercial and Industrial wiring a try where one small section of wiring may have several standards to meet from several different parts of the Code book, and you have to know (and do) them all

But back to topic: I did some digging but couldn't find actual spec drawings for these fuses or holders- I think the SAE website has it but there's an expensive paywall SG's taps have been working almost everywhere and more, so either in the past all the fuseboxes have all been on the loose side of tolerances or Ford has switched to the tight side of tolerances. Or maybe both? In every interface between parts of anything, there is always a "+ or -" range specified to ensure that different pieces coming from different places will all fit together and work properly- those are the specs we'd need to know to determine where the culprit is here.

Hint for those 'filing down" plastic- emery boards are handy but the wider thicker longer "salon boards" come in a much wider range of grits and work great for jobs like this. Coarse is like 80 grit and the smoothest is like 600 grit with plenty in between. Best sandpaper on a stick I've ever found, get them in the same nail care sections of stores

Phil

 

[HonestReview]

It's not the component manufacturers but the ICBO and the NEC who set the standards- and then change them every few years mostly to justify them keeping their jobs it seems, since there's been no significant safety improvements to US residential wiring since GFCI outlets were mandated for wet areas, but plenty of changes have been made since then. And if you think this is complex, give Commercial and Industrial wiring a try where one small section of wiring may have several standards to meet from several different parts of the Code book, and you have to know (and do) them all

But back to topic: I did some digging but couldn't find actual spec drawings for these fuses or holders- I think the SAE website has it but there's an expensive paywall SG's taps have been working almost everywhere and more, so either in the past all the fuseboxes have all been on the loose side of tolerances or Ford has switched to the tight side of tolerances. Or maybe both? In every interface between parts of anything, there is always a "+ or -" range specified to ensure that different pieces coming from different places will all fit together and work properly- those are the specs we'd need to know to determine where the culprit is here.

Hint for those 'filing down" plastic- emery boards are handy but the wider thicker longer "salon boards" come in a much wider range of grits and work great for jobs like this. Coarse is like 80 grit and the smoothest is like 600 grit with plenty in between. Best sandpaper on a stick I've ever found, get them in the same nail care sections of stores

Phil

Filing isn't the most ideal solution but definitely an immediate fix. Wonder what prompted ford to change their fuse boxes. Changes like these are nightmares for companies / components that rely upon add a fuses. Revising production and design for a single manufacture is costly. Meaning some might just tell customers to shave down the plugs or ford vehicles not supported.

My grandfather was a master electrician for about 30 or 40 years. Can't even fathom how complicated standards have become over the years.

 

[Leonauto]

But back to topic: I did some digging but couldn't find actual spec drawings for these fuses or holders- I think the SAE website has it but there's an expensive paywall

Some time ago, I was also looking for sizes and types of fuses installed in cars, this primarily concerned Korean cars that have cartridge-type fuses. I found a catalog with sizes from TESLA BLATNÁ, a.s. - http://www.tesla-blatna.cz/en/products-fuses

Now I use the fuse drawings that are in the Tesla fuse catalog. In Europe, Tesla is a well-known manufacturer of electrical components for cars, primarily lamps, high-voltage wires, and fuses; the company is located in the Czech Republic.

Sizes of Micro 2 fuses from this catalog I posted here: https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/sgdchw-add-a-fuse-micro-2’s-don’t-fit-ford-f150.42448/post-512293

 

[SawMaster]

An excellent chart to identify fuse type but I'd still like to find the engineering specs for the sizing tolerances. It's my guess (and only a guess) that Ford went past the allowed tolerances since the fuse adaptor has worked fine until now. As long as standard fuses fit, it would not be a problem for Ford so they might have chosen to ignore aftermarket needs.

While not quite as "plug-and-play" easy, using a metal blade type adaptor with a wire could easily solve this but you'd have to switch to an inline fuse for the dashcam load. Still in the range of simple DIY to do that. I actually make mine from bits of metal from my junkbox, cutting to size then soldering a wire to it, but these can be purchased.

Not only dashcams, but anything which is supposed to fit everything rarely does- "one size fits all" usually means that it fits nothing very well

Phil

 

[DT MI]

"one size fits all" usually means that it fits nothing very well

Ain't dat da truth....

 

[HonestReview]

An excellent chart to identify fuse type but I'd still like to find the engineering specs for the sizing tolerances. It's my guess (and only a guess) that Ford went past the allowed tolerances since the fuse adaptor has worked fine until now. As long as standard fuses fit, it would not be a problem for Ford so they might have chosen to ignore aftermarket needs.

While not quite as "plug-and-play" easy, using a metal blade type adaptor with a wire could easily solve this but you'd have to switch to an inline fuse for the dashcam load. Still in the range of simple DIY to do that. I actually make mine from bits of metal from my junkbox, cutting to size then soldering a wire to it, but these can be purchased.

Not only dashcams, but anything which is supposed to fit everything rarely does- "one size fits all" usually means that it fits nothing very well

Phil

Shaving the plastic down, as mentioned earlier, seems to be the easiest solution, until companies adapt to Ford's fusebox changes. Which may or may not happen, since modifying an existing universal product for the changes of one company, may not be economically feasible.