The list of shame fake 4K dash cameras Ultra HD

Nigel

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No it's worse than that. What i am saying is that due to the design flaws the camera quikly degrades, becames even more unstable than when purchased and then ceases to work all together. The first one I bricked during the firmware update. The second and third lasted around 6 months each before failing completely.
That is what happens when your dashcam uses a battery, and why other manufacturers like SG, Blueskysea and Viofo don't use batteries in their cameras. Putting a battery in a 4K dash camera is stupid, it is very unlikely to last until the end of the warranty period, I guess Nextbase didn't think about it and assumed that they could continue with their previous scam where the batteries fail at 13 months making the camera useless, and then instead of accepting a design error and replacing it at no cost to the customer, they offer to sell their customer a refurbished camera, supposedly at the price of a battery but actually at more profit to Nextbase than they made on the original camera. Why do you think they have a good supply of refurbished units available? Clearly there is a good supply of dead ones, I doubt that Viofo have any refurbished units available!
 

jokiin

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batteries in dashcams are never a great idea but were a necessity early on as they just hadn't progressed at the time, at this point in time it's a foolish decision to put a battery in a dashcam, it makes no sense when even cameras that sell for $40 can offer a superior solution
 

Paul Iddon

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A129 Pro Duo 4K, A129+ Duo, A119 V3, NB 522GW & 622GW
My 622GW 4k Nextbase dashcam still works and I got it in 2017.
 

Nigel

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batteries in dashcams are never a great idea but were a necessity early on as they just hadn't progressed at the time, at this point in time it's a foolish decision to put a battery in a dashcam, it makes no sense when even cameras that sell for $40 can offer a superior solution
In the early dashcams, batteries were often OK, they ran at a few degrees below the temperature limit for batteries so the batteries could often last a few years except in the hottest climates, although in those days the batteries often failed due to poor manufacture anyway. With dual FHD cameras they are running the wrong side of the temperature limit, and a 4K camera with a decent bitrate will quickly cook the battery.
My 622GW 4k Nextbase dashcam still works and I got it in 2017.
"Preston is a city with a significant rainfall. Even in the driest month there is a lot of rain. "
Apparently, even in the middle of summer, the maximum temperature is below 20°C.

:cool:
 

Paul Iddon

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A129 Pro Duo 4K, A129+ Duo, A119 V3, NB 522GW & 622GW
LoL @Nigel - I'm not sure about that temperature suggestion, but.... Its bloody raining right now! Again! :ROFLMAO:
 

jokiin

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batteries can last, they're not all going to fail quickly but they will have inherent problems that all else being equal are going to cause a much higher failure rate than a capacitor based solution, I think batteries are kind of expected in the real cheap stuff as the technology is not really there amongst the public design house type product, to have batteries in something which is at the higher end of the market though is a mistake, to me it says marketing takes precedence over engineering in those brands
 

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That is what happens when your dashcam uses a battery, and why other manufacturers like SG, Blueskysea and Viofo don't use batteries in their cameras. Putting a battery in a 4K dash camera is stupid, it is very unlikely to last until the end of the warranty period, I guess Nextbase didn't think about it and assumed that they could continue with their previous scam where the batteries fail at 13 months making the camera useless, and then instead of accepting a design error and replacing it at no cost to the customer, they offer to sell their customer a refurbished camera, supposedly at the price of a battery but actually at more profit to Nextbase than they made on the original camera. Why do you think they have a good supply of refurbished units available? Clearly there is a good supply of dead ones, I doubt that Viofo have any refurbished units available!

Well super caps are not the be all end all either. I broke my Markus camera (pulled cable and broke socket off PCB) and opened it up to find a leaking super capacitor which confirmed why the "shutdown tune" only got half way through before cutting off unlike when new.

The fact is that sticking something on a car dashboard is to put it in a very hot environment. Batteries are VERY sensitive to temperature. Looking into super caps on designs I have worked on the limit is 70C, this is far too low and you cannot run or store a capacitor at it's maximum working temperature for long, typically capacitors work for 1'000 to 10'000 hours at maximum temperature and volatge. derating these exponentially increases the capacitor life and is why we never run capacitors at rated temperature and try to stay at 50% rated voltage but never exceed 80%.
 

Nigel

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Well super caps are not the be all end all either. I broke my Markus camera (pulled cable and broke socket off PCB) and opened it up to find a leaking super capacitor which confirmed why the "shutdown tune" only got half way through before cutting off unlike when new.

The fact is that sticking something on a car dashboard is to put it in a very hot environment. Batteries are VERY sensitive to temperature. Looking into super caps on designs I have worked on the limit is 70C, this is far too low and you cannot run or store a capacitor at it's maximum working temperature for long, typically capacitors work for 1'000 to 10'000 hours at maximum temperature and volatge. derating these exponentially increases the capacitor life and is why we never run capacitors at rated temperature and try to stay at 50% rated voltage but never exceed 80%.
If you are using super capacitors then you need to know how to use them! Yes, we have seen a few that have burst due to over voltage, but used properly they have proven themselves to have far longer lives than lithium batteries when used in dashcams. Generally they are not run at maximum voltage, and the highest temperatures are only reached around midday, so your 10'000 hours at maximum temperature and voltage never occurs and the lifespan is a lot longer. Running them at 50% of rated voltage is not very sensible, you don't get much power out of them that way, nowhere near 50% power!

Shouldn't really need super capacitors either, Viofo's option of using .TS files ensures that even if the capacitors fail, you don't lose any video, unlike Nextbase's battery cameras that become useless.
 

Thunderchild

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Well yes if the files are done properly you should be able to use them up to the last Keyframe block. I had this with MP3, I broke an MP3 file up with a splitter program to send a larger file by email. Turned out the person I send them to was playing the files individually as split chunks of MP3.

Yes super capacitors are better than batteries, they will do 20C more. I have not looked at them in detail but they are part of the electrolytic family where one is coutious, but as always read the specs and stay in whatever safe limits the manufacturer states.

Nextbase rushed this thing out and clearly whoever designed this unit was not very good.
 

country_hick

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batteries in dashcams are never a great idea but were a necessity early on as they just hadn't progressed at the time, at this point in time it's a foolish decision to put a battery in a dashcam, it makes no sense when even cameras that sell for $40 can offer a superior solution

I would think a replaceable nicad or nimh (not lithium) button battery as a backup for keeping time could make sense for dashcams in seldom used cars. A car that sits for a week or 2 does not have its dashcams keep the time and date by using supercapitors alone.

Are we fairly close to having 4k dashcams become the affordable and reliable go to dashcam category that 1080 cams have been?
 

Thunderchild

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It should be noted however that this thread is to "out" cameras which are not true 4k rather than talk about recording or design flaws.

The NB612GW is 4k.

I didn't mean to have a discussion about it's flaws. It's not that the 612GW is 4K after all, it's that for most practical purposes it is not a camera at all and as one of the only 4K camera's out there it is a shame to see so many people fooled by it. That moment you need it you will prbably find out it's just a brick hanging off your window and not a camera at all.
 

Nigel

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Are we fairly close to having 4k dashcams become the affordable and reliable go to dashcam category that 1080 cams have been?
I think it is inevitable that they will be the premium rather than affordable option for many years to come, doubt many people will want to go to 8K since 4K seems to be enough for a front dashcam and 360 on a single sensor doesn't work.

Based on the Viofo A129 Pro 4K, they use rather more power than 1080 cameras so are not ideal for parking mode, but otherwise, yes, a reliable mid-range 4K dashcam will be with us fairly soon. Don't expect all manufacturers to follow though, most are going to find that making a reliable 4K dash camera with good performance is beyond their abilities for some time to come.
 

Paul Iddon

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Memory card cost will also be a factor. Ideally something at 256gb would seem to be a good size, but most people will likely start at 128gb max for affordability.
 

jokiin

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I would think a replaceable nicad or nimh (not lithium) button battery as a backup for keeping time could make sense for dashcams in seldom used cars. A car that sits for a week or 2 does not have its dashcams keep the time and date by using supercapitors alone.
the supercapacitors are only used for closing the last file, there is an RTC battery on the mainboard which keeps the time and date, most battery powered cameras don't have RTC batteries as they just use the large reserve capacity of the main battery for that purpose
 

ThomasR

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Based on the Viofo A129 Pro 4K, they use rather more power than 1080 cameras so are not ideal for parking mode, but otherwise, yes, a reliable mid-range 4K dashcam will be with us fairly soon. Don't expect all manufacturers to follow though, most are going to find that making a reliable 4K dash camera with good performance is beyond their abilities for some time to come.

Hi @Nigel,
I was under the impression that the A129 Pro 4K would shoot in 1080P when you are in Parking mode. Is that not correct?
If it is then you'd put less load on it, throug less data, while in Parking mode.

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Nigel

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Hi @Nigel,
I was under the impression that the A129 Pro 4K would shoot in 1080P when you are in Parking mode. Is that not correct?
If it is then you'd put less load on it, throug less data, while in Parking mode.

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Currently it is recording 4K in parking mode, and very good 4K it is too at 4Mb/s :)

However there are concerns about heat in parking mode when used in Death Valley, and it is possible that parking mode will be restricted to 1080 to reduce heat and lengthen battery life. I would prefer to have an option since I normally only use parking mode for short periods and live in UK, but it is Viofo that have to provide the warranty so we will have to wait and see...
 

ThomasR

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Currently it is recording 4K in parking mode, and very good 4K it is too at 4Mb/s :)

However there are concerns about heat in parking mode when used in Death Valley, and it is possible that parking mode will be restricted to 1080 to reduce heat and lengthen battery life. I would prefer to have an option since I normally only use parking mode for short periods and live in UK, but it is Viofo that have to provide the warranty so we will have to wait and see...
Thanks for your reply @Nigel
Interesting! That raises the next questions.
I guess the 4MB/s result from the h265 codec and the fact that the pictures are basically constant with minor variations.
Did you check once the cams energy consumption in driving mode versus parking mode. Would be interesting to see how much the actual data transfer and the bitrate effect the energy consumption and thereby the heat production.
Second question would be; do you see the need for 4K in Parking mode? You are not driving against the traffic and anything important for you happens directly in front of you.
Your Feedback would be much appreciated

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Nigel

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Thanks for your reply @Nigel
Interesting! That raises the next questions.
I guess the 4MB/s result from the h265 codec and the fact that the pictures are basically constant with minor variations.
Did you check once the cams energy consumption in driving mode versus parking mode. Would be interesting to see how much the actual data transfer and the bitrate effect the energy consumption and thereby the heat production.
Second question would be; do you see the need for 4K in Parking mode? You are not driving against the traffic and anything important for you happens directly in front of you.
Your Feedback would be much appreciated

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1. About 5% reduction, if you stay in 4K.
2. 4K parking mode is nice, and since it doesn't use any more card space than the A129 Duo it seems a pity not to use it. As for need, well probably not, but take a look on the A129 Pro video samples thread: https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/viofo-a129-pro-dual-dashcam-4k-front-1080-rear.40094
 

ThomasR

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1. About 5% reduction, if you stay in 4K.
2. 4K parking mode is nice, and since it doesn't use any more card space than the A129 Duo it seems a pity not to use it. As for need, well probably not, but take a look on the A129 Pro video samples thread: https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/viofo-a129-pro-dual-dashcam-4k-front-1080-rear.40094
Totally agree; with that bitrate it is really not a storage problem and I am with you; people wanna have a choice. Once you've paid for 4K you want it to be 4K (under any circumstances)
A notice as a loose flyer and in the manual, advising that at high temps, parking mode in 1080p is recommended to avoid the system shutting off automatically, would be a good approach.

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