UK law for in car cam ?

stevemmm

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Hello guys,
I am new here, and I am looking into buying a camera for my car in the UK.
Most of the cameras that I have seen online look like they have the screen on view...I was under the impression that this was not legal in the UK ? And that the screen is not meant to be on show to the driver ?
Also...Is a suction camera OK ?
Any advice appreciated
Cheers
Steve
 

Gabolinche

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If you feel having a screen might get you in trouble you can take a look at the Mobius. It's pretty darn small, has good quality and no screen. But it also has no GPS, if that's something you were interested in...
 

Byr0n

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If that was the case wouldn't sat navs be illegal?
 

Slicer

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Sat Nav's are very different and are considered a 'driver aid' (who in there right mind would keep looking at a sat nav screen when you have voice over and only need to glance at the thing when changing direction etc) as against a 'driver distraction' The dash cam screen is doing nothing to 'aid or inform' the driver that his/her eyes are (or should be) doing, such dash cam screens if left on during driving are IMO as bad as using a mobile phone whilst driving.
 

jokiin

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Too many ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There's no need for it to be on and any decent camera it turns off soon after it starts anyway and is a non issue
 

spotnz

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There's no need for it to be on and any decent camera it turns off soon after it starts anyway and is a non issue
I agree. Decent dashcams let the user select the amount of time before the screen is turned off.

david
 

Slicer

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Non-issue? IF the authorities decide that dash cams with screens are a hazard to driving and thus make them 'illegal' then it matters not if they are turned 'off' either manually or automatically you will be breaking the law - incidentally this particular issue is under discussion at present along with a raft of other 'driver distraction' items and I suspect a ruling will be forthcoming. How enforceable such laws are is another matter (It is against the law to smoke in your car when children are present - cant wait to see someone being dragged over by the old Bill and getting a ticket over that one!) like many motoring laws in this country the ability to enforce and prosecute is a totally different matter.

By way of an example it is illegal when driving in France to use any device that warns of Speed cameras, traps etc my neighbor found that last summer driving down to the South of France not only did he get a fine but they also took his sat nav (which had a speed camera data base) away from him despite him arguing that he was not using said facility, he got it back when he returned home.
 

jokiin

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Too many ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They'll be targeting entertainment devices, phones etc that are driver distractions, until such time as a decision is made I wouldn't lose sleep over it
 

Slicer

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Ha Ha how true in any case at my time of life 'time' is far to important;)
 

deathguyQC

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I know in Canada, you can have a screen that has the capability of watching let's say a DVD movie (if you have a double-din radio), but it cannot be used for watching said movie will the car is moving but can still be used for nav, radio, etc.

So in the case of dash cams, it would be fine as long as the screen is off and blank.
 

dpick1947

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I would like to know what the powers that be would do with the likes of BMW who are in the process of going to install some type of dashcam into the cars when manufacturing.

dpick1947
 
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stevemmm

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Cheers for the feedback guys.
Found this, as with the poster above...I know it's old ( ie .. cathode ray), but this is the present day legislation too.
109 (2)...Camera .
Sounds to me like the screen has to be out of view at all times whilst driving, including reflection.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/109/made
 
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Slicer

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I would like to know what the powers that be would do with the likes of BMW who are in the process of going to install some type of dashcam into the cars when manufacturing.

dpick1947
Well I guess that the design of such a system would ensure that the DC's screen would be deactivated before the car moves off and it is unable to be activated until the vehicle has come to a stop - that is assuming a screen is to be part of the system in the first place. But given the technology available I would think the setting up would be similar to the methods used to set up on-board ICE and sat nav systems or in the case of MB their Command System.
 

leggo

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Non-issue? IF the authorities decide that dash cams with screens are a hazard to driving and thus make them 'illegal' then it matters not if they are turned 'off' either manually or automatically you will be breaking the law - incidentally this particular issue is under discussion at present along with a raft of other 'driver distraction' items and I suspect a ruling will be forthcoming. How enforceable such laws are is another matter (It is against the law to smoke in your car when children are present - cant wait to see someone being dragged over by the old Bill and getting a ticket over that one!) like many motoring laws in this country the ability to enforce and prosecute is a totally different matter.

By way of an example it is illegal when driving in France to use any device that warns of Speed cameras, traps etc my neighbor found that last summer driving down to the South of France not only did he get a fine but they also took his sat nav (which had a speed camera data base) away from him despite him arguing that he was not using said facility, he got it back when he returned home.
They will not make dash cams illegal in the UK...The insurance companies like it, the AA like it, the RAC like it etc etc.

The gov has said that by 2018, all new cars must be fitted with one.

Oh and It's not illegal to smoke in a car in the UK when a child is present...Yet.
 

pewe

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Just to pick up on this topic there are a couple of things to add/clarify.

As I understand it (from a local police officer) car camera LCD screens can not legally be viewed by the driver!
so most suction cup mounted car cams with LCD screens are illegal, by token of the fact most, if not all provide an LCD TV screen which CAN remain on, or on which the default is on.

Apparently there is also a clear guideline for mounting any 'object' on the front windscreen and this is as follows -

The specific act of placing stickers in car windows is not in itself illegal. However, it is an offence, under
regulation 30 of The Road Vehicles (Construction & Use)Regulations 1986 (SI 1986 No. 1078),
to drive a vehicle in which the glass is maintained in such a condition that the vision of
the driver is impaired.
If you use a screen mounted car camera in the UK, if the device (camera and / or cradle and / or suction cup) intrudes more than 4cm into the secondary (pink) wiper clearance zone, or intrudes more than 1cm into the primary (red) wiper clearance zone of the windscreen, you are committing a serious traffic offence (dangerous driving) under the UK Road Traffic Act 1988, and your vehicle is not roadworthy (it would fail an MOT).


There are a lot of cars in the UK where the windscreen wipes so much of the screen that it is impossible to fit a dashcam outside of the limits mentioned - and even if they can be fitted, because the wipers will not clean the screen in front of the camera it makes them almost useless in rain or when the screen gets dusty/dirty.

The other interesting point concerns retailers of dashcams.

UK sellers of these devices must disclose which vehicles their units can be lawfully used in. Legal use means the suction cup, cradle and camera must NOT intrude more than the 1cm/4cm limit into the wiper clearance zone of a vehicle, and any active LCD screen must NOT be visible to the driver. As the wiper clearance zone varies from vehicle to vehicle, the seller must physically test their car cameras to make sure it is possible, or to obtain specification on the wiper clearance zone from the vehicle manufacturer to be able to determine this. If they can not / do not disclose whether their units can be legally used in your particular vehicle's make and model, they are breaking the law by causing you to commit a motoring offense of dangerous driving. In addition, the seller of the car camera MUST explicitly make you aware of the fact the camera (suction cup, cradle and camera) must NOT intrude more than the 1cm/4cm limit into the wiper clearance zone of your vehicle, or again they are causing you to commit a traffic offence.

Now I have not seen one UK (or international site selling to the UK) that mentions the above.

So - pays your money, takes your choice (or risk as the case may be).
 

sludgeguts

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Apparently there is also a clear guideline for mounting any 'object' on the front windscreen and this is as follows -

The specific act of placing stickers in car windows is not in itself illegal. However, it is an offence, under
regulation 30 of The Road Vehicles (Construction & Use)Regulations 1986 (SI 1986 No. 1078),
to drive a vehicle in which the glass is maintained in such a condition that the vision of
the driver is impaired.
Yeah, I'll remove my dashcam when they make every Asian taxi driver remove the handful of CDs they generally have swinging from the rear view mirror

Within seconds, you can 'block out' or completely ignore a static object in your view - tax disc, Rear view mirror being typical examples but loads of objects constantly swinging around dangling from the mirror HAS to be a very dangerous distraction as your eyes will be constantly drawn to it - OR you will have to make a very conscious effort to 'block' it out
 

pewe

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Yeah, I'll remove my dashcam when they make every Asian taxi driver remove the handful of CDs they generally have swinging from the rear view mirror
Me too - :D

I was talking to my neighbour about this - he is a police officer (special branch for special services not a traffic cop).
He agreed that the road traffic act had stipulations about safe line of sight etc, but then pointed out that a number of police cars had similar obstructions with all the equipment they carry (eg NR cameras to name but one) and there was no 'exemption' for them - so they're all operating 'illegally' too. :eek:
Calls for a citizens arrest I reckon.:rolleyes:
 

spotnz

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Me too - :D

I was talking to my neighbour about this - he is a police officer (special branch for special services not a traffic cop).
He agreed that the road traffic act had stipulations about safe line of sight etc, but then pointed out that a number of police cars had similar obstructions with all the equipment they carry (eg NR cameras to name but one) and there was no 'exemption' for them - so they're all operating 'illegally' too. :eek:
Calls for a citizens arrest I reckon.:rolleyes:
good luck:D
 
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