You never want to see this at your church (no video, just a photo)

[Gibson99]

Apparently there was a shooting at my church tonight, right about the same time we arrived for my son's Cub Scouts meeting. I parked in the back like always, and on our way in, we heard a few pops, then someone revving the engine and honking, but I figured it was some fireworks and then some road ragers doing their thing like they always do at the traffic light in front of the church. didn't see or hear any commotion as we entered the building, so i thought nothing of it till everyone's phones started blowing up inside, and the troop leaders came around discreetly telling the adults what was going on, and that the building was on lockdown - nobody in or out till the police give us the clear.

last i heard, a husband (ex-?) shot his wife and adult kid, one of whom is already dead. Thankfully there's a hospital less than a mile down the road from the church, but that all depends on the severity of the wound(s).

http://www.fox26houston.com/news/gunshots-fired-at-cypress-area-church
https://abc13.com/live-1-dead-1-injured-in-cypress-church-shooting/5094760/

I'm archiving all of my footage from the point i drove into the church, since i drove straight through what was about to become the crime scene, probably only a minute or so before it happened, and then my camera ran in parking mode as well, so if we're lucky it caught something the police can use. there were plenty of people standing in the parking lot as i drove through, but ours is a very large church and there's always people out there just talking before/after their worship/meetings/studies/etc so i didn't think anything of it, since nothing i saw looked abnormal.

 

[Gibson99]

Police just gave the name/pic of the suspect, and that he apparently fled in a white 2008 suburban. i found 2 white suburbans in the part where i drove in front of the church, and one of them actually had someone walking towards it, though they could have just been walking past it to get to the church.

so far haven't seen or heard anything useful in the parking video... saw another white suburban come in and park in the next row and one adult get out and go towards the church (too far away and too dark to make out any detail except that it was probably an adult male), but by then, police were already on site, so it'd be pretty crazy if that was the guy.

should i even bother telling the police that i have this video? not sure what use it would be to them...

first white suburban w/ person walking towards it:


2nd white suburban (on left) but nobody nearby that i can tell.


i wasn't really looking that close as i drove past, since i wasn't expecting anything unusual... just the normal looking out for kids/pedestrians, and cars backing out.

 

[Gibson99]

better safe than sorry. i went ahead and called the county sherrif's non-emergency line (their jurisdiction since it's not within city limits) and explained the dashcam footage i have, and that they are more than welcome to look at it if they want to. they have my info and can contact me if they decide they want to see the footage. it's about 12gb total, including the stuff in parking mode (very little of which was in time lapse mode).

 

[kamkar]

It is in moments like this you really wish night performance was a lot better than it is in today's cameras.
Back up the footage, and tell the police you have it and you have done your civic duty, then the rest are up to them.

 

[Nigel]

It is in moments like this you really wish night performance was a lot better than it is in today's cameras.

I think a better solution is for people not to have guns, then there would be nothing to record, or maybe just a bit of shouting!

 

[kamkar]

Indeed, but our American friends have really painted them self into a corner on that matter.
And still they / we face truck terror - knife terror, and even gun terror too, for the idiot that want to get personal, for the chickens are are always the bomb.
So this fear are just something we will have to live with, cuz short of nuking large areas of the world turning ground to glass and to strict genome cleansing in our own societies, it is not something we can stop.
I fear my own stupidity more than i fear some extremists anger.

 

[Nigel]

And still they / we face truck terror - knife terror, and even gun terror too, for the idiot that want to get personal, for the chickens are are always the bomb.

Nobody has bombs just sitting around waiting to be used, they need planning,
With knifes you actually have to attack the target,
Almost nobody uses trucks except terrorists, and even then they are at risk of taking out the innocent as well as the targets so it is rare for even terrorists even though it is quite easy.
Guns need no planning, you don't need to get close enough to feel at risk of retaliation, they are just sitting there waiting to be used, and you just have to squeeze your finger - far too tempting when you get angry with someone!

 

[SawMaster]

@Gibson99 So sad for this to happen but so glad y'all are OK. We get more than our share of store robberies and drug-related killings here on the poor side of my town, and when I see the news on coming home I always think about where I've been and whether my cams may have some helpful footage on them. So far all I've gotten is the normal traffic mayhem, and that's not a complaint.

Phil

 

[Gibson99]

Apparently they found the shooter at a local hotel last night, dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Sad, but at least that saves us the cost of a trial and jail time.

My take on the whole gun situation here is that most laws they are trying to pass have absolutely no effect on the majority of criminals, and only affect law-abiding people. Bad guys will still be able to get guns the same way they always have, because they don't care what the law says. They might have helped in this particular situation since it apparently seemed from domestic violence, but that's a small minority of the crime here.

 

[DT MI]

...Bad guys will still be able to get guns the same way they always have, because they don't care what the law says...

Now if we can only get the politicians to understand/acknowledge that....

 

[kamkar]

Indeed.
Even here which have never been a gun society, criminals can get and use what they please, and they will do cuz the risk of getting caught + what the conviction will be are no challenge.
Thats one reason i am all pro capitol punishment, though even that will not work but at least we have something cheap to use instead of throwing some dumb ass in a no handle on inside door hotel at the tune of 5 - 6000 USD or so a month.
A 7.62 bullet only cost a dollar tops.

Here a group of young Croatians committing a string of extremely violent home robberies just gotten sentences between 8 and 12 years of prison, they was so violent every one agree on that is is a miracle no one got killed.
Problem is a Danish prison are like a holiday camp for Croatians, hell they can even get a jail job and earn more money working that then they could a job in their home country.
it will have absolutely no preventive in that conviction, instead we have to waste money on those guys for the next decade and we will get nothing for that cuz after that they are excorted home with a ban to ever enter Denmark again, which will be hard to uphold as between Croatia and Denmark there are not really any border.

 

[Nigel]

My take on the whole gun situation here is that most laws they are trying to pass have absolutely no effect on the majority of criminals, and only affect law-abiding people. Bad guys will still be able to get guns the same way they always have, because they don't care what the law says. They might have helped in this particular situation since it apparently seemed from domestic violence, but that's a small minority of the crime here.

People said the same thing here before we banned most guns, however we haven't had a single mass shooting this century, guns are no longer used in domestic violence, and for most criminals carrying guns is definitely not sensible so they don't, even the terrorists have only been using knives or vehicles for the last few years, and they always seem to end up dead!

 

[kamkar]

you guys had guns ? i dident expect / know that, or maybe i do i could see like in the days of the muzzle loaders maybe.
I don't think Danes ever had defense guns like pistols in recent times, hunting are another matter, when i was a teen you just had to be 18 to buy a shotgun,,,,, okay you could not use it without a hunting license, but still you could buy a gun.
Thats not a option today, cuz now it is get hunting license, then you can buy gun, or have a decade of active membership in a shooting club before you can buy a range rifle / pistol that you can take home.
Actually the funny thing is there have been a tremendous rise in people getting hunting licenses and buying hunting weapons, so much so us few sane people are wondering where they all go hunting, and how few CM the hunters are apart.
Personally i think its to have a gun in the house, which i can fully relate to, if i was a bit younger and felt a bit more attached to life i would want a gun too, but i am not so all i have are my F&F magnum ( Fist & foot )
A knife or two and a bat.

 

[Nigel]

you guys had guns ? i dident expect / know that, or maybe i do i could see like in the days of the muzzle loaders maybe.

Yes, we probably invented them! And like in USA there were a lot of "enthusiasts" that campaigned to keep them, however after a series of mass shootings, ending with one in a Scottish school with 16 children killed in 1996, we banned all automatic/semi-automatic weapons, and a few years later due to public demand we banned all handguns. Still plenty of people with shotguns and a few with single shot riffles, although I think you need a good reason to own a riffle capable of more than shooting targets at the Olympics. Also, we have to keep our guns locked up without ammunition, so that nobody can just grab and use them when angry.

 

[Dashmellow]

The first firearms were invented by the Chinese in the 10th century about a hundred years after they invented gun powder.

 

[kamkar]

Damn so late, well you live and learn. i would have guessed you outlawed them early in the 1900

Yeah the automatics are probably the biggest issue, here a pump gun or automatic shotgun cant hold more than 2 or 3 shells, of course if you are a naughty kid even before the days on the internet that is "fixable"
Hunting rifles also have to be bolt operated but i think those might have 5 shots in a mag.
Pistols i don't think have ever been allowed for civilians here.

I know for airguns the UK have a max of .22 caliber and 12 foot pound of energy as i recall, here we don't have a limit on other than caliber so .177 / 4.5 mm are now the max here after some kids used a .22 airgun to shoot at people, so punk ass kids and stupid politicians over reacting ruined that for us.
Before that you could actually buy and own a deadly hard hitting 50 cal airgun.

Just had to look up facts, and it turn out to buy a pistol you have to be at least 20 YO and have been a active member of a pistol club in just 2 years. 18 YO for a rifle or 16 with parental approval.
I know it don't have to be a dedicated range gun, i have seen guys come to the club and unload a few clips from their 9 mm Glock or whatever.
Funny thing is my airgun i cant go shoot that in a shooting club, i can buy one thru the club just like it and that one i can shoot
I cant find anything online in regard to if it have been legal for a Dane to carry / own a non hunting weapon in the old days.

I have found a example of 2 Danes dueling on guns in 1900, both missed but was sent 2 weeks to jail for dueling.
Tordenskjold or as the British nick named him when they took our fleet " the boy commander" was killed in a duel 12 NOV 1720
And the Famous Danish astronomer Tycho Brahe lost his nose in a duel on swords in 1566

Last known duel here was in 1910 between 2 students, it stopped when one was hurt in the leg by the swords they used, consensus if some might have gone on right up until WW1

Anyways law don't batter for the people that' are the problem, and the law don't have features to stop that.

Today getting caught with a armed weapon here = strait to jail for 3 years.
in 2016 there was 54 discharges of weapons in public in relation to the biker war, in 2017 it was a bit more, and not so many was killed as Danish criminals are lousy shots, at least not compared to the 273 mass shootings in the US in 2017.
In those discharge statistics i don't think there are one single discharge in public, by a person that got his weapon in a legal way, i think they are all related to biker war / gang war over drugs market.
Not that a hunter don't snap some times and shoot his wife and him self after that, mostly due to wife being deadly ill and desperate people that can not get the help ( dying ) they want so take matters into own hands.

Still i am pro Guns, if i was a American i would have like a pooload of them i am sure, and as a Dane i would like that too.

 

[Nigel]

Yeah the automatics are probably the biggest issue, here a pump gun or automatic shotgun cant hold more than 2 or 3 shells, of course if you are a naughty kid even
...
In those discharge statistics i don't think there are one single discharge in public, by a person that got his weapon in a legal way, i think they are all related to biker war / gang war over drugs market.

The most shells you can load here is 2 for a double barrelled shotgun, everything else is single shot so that if you shoot someone then everyone else has a chance to attack you or take cover.

Drugs is one place there are some used here where the criminals shoot each other but thankfully the drugs problem is nothing like in the USA! Other than that the criminals avoid guns, big difference here is that the police don't carry guns so the criminals don't feel that they need them either, and if the specialist police are called on then there is typically a 3 hour standoff while they arrive from 200 miles away, and then they shoot the criminal dead with a sniper rifle, even if it turns out to be an airgun or plastic toy that they were holding!

Even so, they kill less than 1.5 criminals per year, half the number from before we banned guns. The spike in 2016/2017 was all terrorists:

 

[kamkar]

Here it seem like police shoot each other more than they shoot criminals.

This is how danish police have used their guns in the past years.


- 2017: 33 shots, - 16 was warning shot
- 2016: 49 shots, - 24 was warning shot
- 2015: 20 shots, - 98 was warning shot
- 2014: 59 shots, - 18 was warning shot
- 2013: 58 shots, - 12 was warning shot

Stick use.

- 2017: 239 times
- 2016: 219 times
- 2015: 180 times
- 2014: 266 times
- 2013: 316 times

Pepper spray use.

- 2017: 239 times
- 2016: 219 times
- 2015: 180 times
- 2014: 266 times
- 2013: 316 times

Use of police dog. ( no injury )
- 2017: 239 times
- 2016: 219 times
- 2015: 180 times
- 2014: 266 times
- 2013: 316 times

Use of police dog ( with injuries )

- 2017: 97 times
- 2016: 89 times
- 2015: 89 times
- 2014: 110 times
- 2013: 99 times

This are the national numbers in little old Denmark with just about 6 million people.

There are no numbers for how many the police manage to shoot and injure / kill, but it seem like i hear more of accidental discharges at their gun range than actual shootings and hitting criminals.
And it is less than once every year i think.

58 shots in 2013 by all Danish cops, that's less than what one American cop can do when the poo hit the fan over there,,,,,, which all things taken into account are also fair IMO.
It just underline the vast differences between Danish society and American society in that one aspect.
In the US states where you can open carry guns ( all of them i think ) it is the right of a store owner or similar to deny to service you when you open carry a gun, and it actually seem to freak out many Americans, so maybe they are seeing little changes over there in regard to the general feeling about guns.

 

[Nigel]

This is who danish police have used their guns in the past years.
- 2017: 33 shots, - 16 was warning shot

Our police don't do warning shots, if you have a gun, or toy gun with you then the specialist police will be called and when they arrive, hours later, they will shoot to kill, and they normally succeed first shot.

- 2015: 20 shots, - 98 was warning shot

That was very clever!

 

[kamkar]

Hehe yes 20 shots to kill, and they probably dident hit anything but a barn door.

It is hard to hit something with a pistol, me and my friend have been using airsoft guns for years to keep sharp, and putting 2 center mass are hard, its never like in the movies where everyone seen to be crack shots related to Annie Oakley.
We even play cowboy quick draw some times, and from 5 M way it is rare any of us actually hit the other one as we pull and shoot in one movement.

I use this SOB

Not the fastest to draw out of my holster as it is sum bitch big, but aim it and i can hit a tennis ball at 10 M or so every time.
Today you can get much cooler "six shooters"