COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

[vulpe]

I fully agree.

Of course, I posted about this to create public awareness regarding what Sinclair Broadcasting, the largest owner of local public television stations in the US is up to. This is hardly the first time they have engaged in this kind of activity either. And they have a history of forcing local affiliates to air certain "must-run" questionable far right-wing programing and commentary over the objections of journalists and management at these stations. Often commentary is not labeled as such and is instead presented as journalism. Sinclair is essentially part of a coordinated right-wing propaganda machine.

See: https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/07/11/sinclair-broadcast-group-propaganda/

See: Readers React: Why Sinclair’s scripted, pro-Trump propaganda should worry anyone who cares about democracy

See: Confessions Of A Former Sinclair News Director


Meanwhile, Donald Trump has been documented to have made 20,055 false or misleading claims since assuming office as president of the United States.

See the data base: In 1,267 days, President Trump has made 20,055 false or misleading claims - Updated July 9, 2020

And that ...sir...is another lie

 

[Dashmellow]

And that ...sir...is another lie

No, in fact everything stated is quite well documented.

Trump's 20,000 plus lies and false claims have been extraordinarily well documented.

Sinclair Broadcast Group's tactics are a matter of public record.

Sinclair Made Dozens of Local News Anchors Recite the Same Script

Sinclair's "Must Run Scripts"

Everything is in the links provided.

 

[Dashmellow]

It's not about your health...it will be over Nov. 4th

Try telling that to the families and loved ones of the 151,965 Americans who have died to date from COVID-19 since the end of February.

Is it a hoax? Ask this guy - "A man who thought the coronavirus was a 'scamdemic' wrote a powerful essay warning against virus deniers after he hosted a party and got his entire family sick"

Or this guy - 'I thought it was a hoax:' Man dies after attending COVID-19 party"

Or this guy - "Man dies from coronavirus after calling it a ‘political ploy’"

Of course, November 4th is a meaningless date to the billions of people all over the world affected by the coronavirus scourge who don't happen to live in the United States and who couldn't give a squat about the date of the upcoming US presidential election.

 

[vulpe]

There are not 150,000 + covid 19 deaths. NY alone counts covid cases twice and many other deaths as covid that are flu, old age, and other respiratory diseases. there is
money in it Medicare alone pays additional 20%. Hospitals are being paid huge sum depending on number of treatments. Our daughter is a nurse practicioner in charge of testing at her university hospital. They were told to count each test as covid. Florida labs report 100%, 98% etc as covid, statistically impossible. Still the covid is very real, however it is being over counted for profit.

The claim that trump has told 20K "documented" lies is the same as Claiming the media tells 20k lies because their "facts" don't agree with trumps. Reality seems to be taking a beating on both side of any issue these days. The truth is what the truth is, double check everything and apply common sense, not ones, nor anybody elses agenda. The Constitution is the law of the land, read it. Interesting how the Declaration of Independance complains of things that are relavent today. The rights that are enumerated in the Bill of Right existed long before even the nation. The are reiterated here so that those who twist the Constitution are reminded the these rights are inalienable and not subject to individual ideologies. Free speech is as one of five inalienable rights mentioned in the first amendment. Free speech comes with responsibilities and consequences, libel for one, using it to purposely incite violence among others. Read Madison, The Federalist papers no. 51 and 10 for a clear understanding. "The Bill of Rights Primer" by Akhil Reed Amar and Les Adams is a useful reference.

I realize that none of this will not make any difference to you, Truth is objective, not subject to the "Ideal" of the day. Make sure you "facts" are real facts that you can personally own, not somebody elses, you never know when your future may depend on them, Don't measure other people with your yardstick, nor let yourself be measured by theirs.

This is a forum about dash cam, having said that, this is the last word I have to say on this subject, covid, It's more about politics than about our health.
Done.

 

[Nigel]

There are not 150,000 + covid 19 deaths.

The correct USA death toll has passed 200,000.

Even president Trump's favorite news channel, using data from the start of July, which wasn't even a complete count to the start of July has reported 179,000, and the actions to reopen all states without adequate precautions have already committed another 100,000 to die:

US deaths during coronavirus outbreak period were 179K higher than usual: report

U.S. deaths were nearly 180,000 higher than usual for a three month period during the coronavirus outbreak, according to a report on Wednesday.

www.foxnews.com

 

[kamkar]

At least not as bad as India, which might possible have more infected than the entire US in just one town ( Mumbai ) at least that is what screening the very poorest people there seem to indicate, and Mumbai i think have more poor people living there than the total of all Danes.

Still we ( the entire world ) are far from the numbers of the Spanish flu.
Maybe when covid merge and mutate with the hanta virus.

A man walks down the street, coughs two times, and drop dead

 

[Nigel]

At least not as bad as India, which might possible have more infected than the entire US in just one town

India has a billion more people than little USA, it is perfectly reasonable that they will have more people die!
India is actually doing quite well, current deaths per million is 25, compared to the USA's 460,

They also have vaccine trials and manufacture sorted, including the Oxford Vaccine and two of their own:

5 sites in India ready for final phase of human trials of Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

The Serum Institute of India will start manufacturing the vaccine even before the final nod so it is ready with sizeable volumes once the vaccine gets all permissions.

theprint.in

 

[Dashmellow]

There are not 150,000 + covid 19 deaths. NY alone counts covid cases twice and many other deaths as covid that are flu, old age, and other respiratory diseases. there is
money in it Medicare alone pays additional 20%. Hospitals are being paid huge sum depending on number of treatments. Our daughter is a nurse practicioner in charge of testing at her university hospital. They were told to count each test as covid. Florida labs report 100%, 98% etc as covid, statistically impossible. Still the covid is very real, however it is being over counted for profit.

The claim that trump has told 20K "documented" lies is the same as Claiming the media tells 20k lies because their "facts" don't agree with trumps. Reality seems to be taking a beating on both side of any issue these days. The truth is what the truth is, double check everything and apply common sense, not ones, nor anybody elses agenda. The Constitution is the law of the land, read it. Interesting how the Declaration of Independance complains of things that are relavent today. The rights that are enumerated in the Bill of Right existed long before even the nation. The are reiterated here so that those who twist the Constitution are reminded the these rights are inalienable and not subject to individual ideologies. Free speech is as one of five inalienable rights mentioned in the first amendment. Free speech comes with responsibilities and consequences, libel for one, using it to purposely incite violence among others. Read Madison, The Federalist papers no. 51 and 10 for a clear understanding. "The Bill of Rights Primer" by Akhil Reed Amar and Les Adams is a useful reference.

I realize that none of this will not make any difference to you, Truth is objective, not subject to the "Ideal" of the day. Make sure you "facts" are real facts that you can personally own, not somebody elses, you never know when your future may depend on them, Don't measure other people with your yardstick, nor let yourself be measured by theirs.

This is a forum about dash cam, having said that, this is the last word I have to say on this subject, covid, It's more about politics than about our health.
Done.

It is always amusing when someone with your political philosophies shows up in this thread or elsewhere in the forum because we always see the exact same playbook. You state that "Truth is objective, not subjective" yet you indulge in wild conspiracy theories without ever offering the slightest documentation or objective facts to back them up. Taking your claim that New York is counting covid cases twice for example, there is simply zero evidence to substantiate such a claim, nor do you offer any proof for any other of your claims.

You go on to reject actual facts as "fake news" or questionable reality, or accuse others of having an agenda of some sort because it doesn't jive with your own political narrative. Whenever we hear from a member with your views you appear to be living in an alternate universe, one brought to you by Fox News and other similar right wing propaganda outlets. It's like the climate change denial thing, why let the actual facts get in the way?

This is why you reject the notion that Donald J. Trump has uttered 20,055 outright lies, falsehoods and misleading claims since taking office. Obviously, you refused to look at the documentation because it would be rather inconvenient for you.

As it happens. literally ALL of Donald J. Trump's false and misleading statements were uttered in front of audiences with cameras and microphones rolling or they have been posts he made to his Twitter account or on Facebook. So, there is an absolutely verifiable record that can be called upon to determine whether or not the claim that Trump lied or mislead 20,055 times is indeed the "objective" truth of the matter.

The fact is that those 20,055 lies have been meticulously documented, catalogued and fact-checked by a group of extremely skilled and conscientious journalists into a searchable database with interactive graphics. If you really believe in "objective truth" then perhaps you may want to take a look at it, but I think we already know the answer to such a challenge.

In 1,267 days, President Trump has made 20,055 false or misleading claims
The Fact Checker’s ongoing database of the false or misleading claims made by President Trump since assuming office.
​

Here's a good example. This particular falsehood was repeated by Trump 360 times!

​

 

[Nigel]

Another 20,000 people signing up to test the Oxford vaccine:

COVID-19: UHS to conduct trials of Oxford University vaccine in Pakistan

The University of Health Sciences Punjab has collaborated with the United Kingdom 's renowned Oxford University to conduct trials for the latter's coronavirus vaccine in Pakistan.According to UHS Vice-Chancellor Dr Javed Akram,...

www.geo.tv

"Advert" for Oxford vaccine:

WHO:

USA is still delaying the testing in order to give the Moderna vaccine, co-developed by Dr Fauci, a head start! Of course it wont work, it just delays when a vaccine will be available in the USA!

 

[knapp7]

In an unapologetic attempt to add more fuel to the COVID-19 debate fire, I think this whole debate about politics, constitutional rights, religion, data and whatever else is totally irrelevant. Interesting comments all, but just useless opinions on the internet.

We humans are not as smart as we think we are. My fear is that this is nothing more than an example of Darwin's old theory of evolution by Natural Selection playing out in real time ... whereby stupid humans who do not adapt (or "choose wisely") when interacting with their COVID-19 environment are eventually replaced by those who do.

 

[Nigel]

My fear is that this is nothing more than an example of Darwin's old theory of evolution by Natural Selection playing out in real time

Not very effective at the selection of people since it mainly kills the elderly who will not be reproducing any more anyway.

Of course evolution also works on countries and political parties, the governments that have got through this with zero covid deaths such as Greenland and the Faroes are much more likely to survive than those with massive death counts like in the USA which has around .3 million deaths lined up. Governments with low death counts such as New Zealand on 22 and China on 4600 will benefit greatly.

I think this whole debate about politics, constitutional rights, religion, data and whatever else is totally irrelevant.

What it shows is the value of true science. The countries that let the scientists guide the decisions have done well, the countries that left it to the politicians have done poorly, the countries that let the doctors guide the decisions have done worst. Then there is the USA where the president said he didn't take responsibility and left it to individual local services guided by the doctors. The southern states should be locking down right now when it may save 100 thousand lives, not 3 months before the main outbreak when it saved nobody, just delayed the inevitable!

 

[SawMaster]

The countries that let the scientists guide the decisions have done well, the countries that left it to the politicians have done poorly, the countries that let the doctors guide the decisions have done worst.

I'm not sure that you're making sense here, as "science" and "doctors" are pretty much the same lot in this case. But there can be no doubt that the places where politicians have "led" the way are generally utter and abject failures

If there's a lesson to be learned in this it is that we can advance our species no further with politicians in charge of everything. But that's been the unlearned lesson for a long time now... world wars, nuclear weapons, missiles so fast they can't be defended against... we ARE a very stupid species overall, there can be no denying of that

This pandemic is not so much a proof of evolution, but more of nature doing as it always has and of us not paying enough attention to the natural world and what it requires of us to live on this planet optimally. Our current approach is not working and we've all got hard choices to make to create a better world for ourselves and for future generations. We can have all that we need but we're going to have to realize that we can't get what we want to do that, and because of that it will never get better

As far as what nature does to us, it's not the strongest or best which survive; nature is totally non-selective and survival against it's forces is totally random. Our best defense and indeed our only one is our intelligence which has stopped growing and evolving while nature hasn't. Nature always wins it's fights in the end so we must learn to avoid the fights or in the end there will be nature but not us humans.

An old GF of mine said that humans are self-destructive and the longer I live the more I can see that she was correct In fact, humans are the only self-destructive species on this planet and in the end we are going to get what we're asking for even though it isn't what we want. It doesn't have to be this way...

Phil

 

[kamkar]

"They" mentioned yesterday it might be a good idea to wear a mask say in packed public transport during rush hour, as a result of that and talks about masks in the weeks before, masks are now selling like hot cakes here, and pharmacies and stores have to get new supplies daily.

BUT ! it is still not law here, they are just relying on common sense, which apparently Danes do have in some situations, and totally lack in others.

Of course Danes are whipped in line and groomed for decades, so when someone say jump, most Danes tend to ask how high and then start jumping,,,,,,,, this fact frighten me some CUZ it is clear they can get people to go along with just about anything,,,,,,,,,, and that can go bad so fast.

On the other hand most stores report in that the use of available hand sanitizing alcohol for customers are dropping fast as many people,,,,,,, including yours truly, often dont use it.
I do not in any way think of this pestilence in my day to day activities, and it have not really in any way had any impact on my life.
But that just prove that asking for common sense of Danes, well it might be good, or it might be okay for a little while.

For instance now that the weather are getting a bit better again, at once police report significant rise in complaints about noise from people partying.
And with bars and so being OK to be open after midnight, thats only OK if someone have rented the place for a party, but this of course lead to abuse at once, so now police of which we have very little also have to make sure bars open after midnight with a note on the door saying private party is really a valid private party.

I think Danes have as little common sense as most people, if you weed out the radicals in the "flat earth category"

 

[Nigel]

I'm not sure that you're making sense here, as "science" and "doctors" are pretty much the same lot in this case.

You might hope that your doctors are scientists, but few doctors are actually trained as scientists and the type of people who sign up as doctors tend not to be the type of people who make good scientists. Doctors come in all forms from witch doctors, herbalists, homeopathists, etc., etc. Many of them are very much not scientists!

Dr Fauci is a good example of a doctor rather than a scientist, currently insisting that the rise in cases in the southern states is due to them having insufficient lockdown before opening up, or in other words not following Dr Fauci's rules. The rise in cases on ending lockdown was inevitable given that the southern states locked down too soon to build significant immunity. Scientifically, if you want to stop the spread then something needs to change to reduce the R number below 1.0, a lockdown only does this temporarily, as soon as you end the lockdown you are back in the original situation and unless something has changed then the virus will spread again, exactly what has happened. Fauci is comparing USA to Europe and saying that the difference is that Europe went to a lower base level, but the base level is irrelevant unless you get to zero so that there is no virus to spread again. The difference in Europe is that most countries got a lot more immunity than the USA southern states, and the countries that didn't have been doing a lot of track and trace or maintaining restrictions. The areas of Europe with lowest immunity are having further outbreaks, currently parts of Spain, Germany, Denmark are all seeing small rises and would all get into trouble if they opened up like USA did. USA has now got enough immunity nearly everywhere, and many states should be locking down tightly for a few weeks to wipe out the virus if they want to save lives. For much of USA, the previous lockdown did nothing useful, but they now have enough immunity that after another lockdown it would not spread again, as demonstrated by New York which is still steadily dropping it's deaths per day in a nice exponential curve and getting close to zero. Without a further lockdown in the southern states it is going to take ages for their new cases to drop back down and many more people will be needlessly infected during that time.

 

[Nigel]

On the other hand most stores report in that the use of available hand sanitizing alcohol for customers are dropping fast as many people,,,,,,, including yours truly, often dont use it.

We know that the hand sanitizer kills the virus, but does it stop the spread of the virus when people use it? We still have very poor evidence on how the virus is spreading. If people are swapping hand sanitizer and distancing for masks then we may be in trouble. Some of the best evidence comes from aeroplanes where they could check the results of flights because they knew everybody who was there, seems that the virus doesn't spread on aeroplanes, even without masks and hand sanitizer and even when the flights were full. Not what most people would expect, but it suggests that use of masks on public transport won't help much. On the other side, it is clear that church choirs are extremely effective at spreading the virus, in fact any time people are singing or talking loudly. What is needed is a ban on singing, shouting, talking loudly, and talking louder than a whisper when within 2m of anyone.

so now police of which we have very little also have to make sure bars open after midnight with a note on the door saying private party is really a valid private party.

The virus doesn't distinguish between private and non-private parties, all noisy gatherings should be banned, give the police a dB meter!

 

[jokiin]

On the other hand most stores report in that the use of available hand sanitizing alcohol for customers are dropping fast as many people,,,,,,, including yours truly, often dont use it.

reluctant to use the sanitiser, found it was stripping the hell out of my skin, soap and water is a better option for me, sanitiser is a last resort

 

[kamkar]

A few weeks ago in my birth town they came in 3 in the soccer championship, the fans of the team went off the hook and partied in front of city hall and the cops just stood there looking.
CUZ the police also know that in relation to drunk soccer fans they are no longer a authority, just like in some parts of town where white people are not welcome,,,,just their tax money.

 

[Nigel]

A few weeks ago in my birth town they came in 3 in the soccer championship, the fans of the team went off the hook and partied in front of city hall and the cops just stood there looking.
CUZ the police also know that in relation to drunk soccer fans they are no longer a authority, just like in some parts of town where white people are not welcome,,,,just their tax money.

Hope the police had their video cameras out so that they can now round everybody up and quarantine all involved under guard for 14 days, stop others copying them in future!

 

[kamkar]

Danish police dont have the manpower for such things, they are reduced to some kind of armed onlookers to most crime.

I hope i dont step on any toes, but i have always felt hard core soccer fans are a sorry bunch, but its probably the same with any hard core fan of something, just i see those here as it is sadly our national sport.
I am pretty sure if they stopped sale of beer on the stadium half of them wouldn't come, or at least the aftermath would be more orderly.

 

[Dashmellow]

You might hope that your doctors are scientists, but few doctors are actually trained as scientists and the type of people who sign up as doctors tend not to be the type of people who make good scientists. Doctors come in all forms from witch doctors, herbalists, homeopathists, etc., etc. Many of them are very much not scientists!

Dr Fauci is a good example of a doctor rather than a scientist.

The arrogant, smug, condescending and dismissive attitude you continue to display is absolutely appalling, as usual!

Either you are completely ignorant or this is yet another example of the kind of ongoing USA trolling you have engaged in throughout this thread and elsewhere on this forum.

Dr. Anthony Fauci is "merely" a doctor rather than a scientist? Really?


Dr. Fauci has been the Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984

"Dr. Fauci is also the longtime chief of the Laboratory of Immunoregulation. He has made many contributions to basic and clinical research on the pathogenesis and treatment of immune-mediated and infectious diseases. He helped pioneer the field of human immunoregulation by making important basic scientific observations that underpin the current understanding of the regulation of the human immune response. In addition, Dr. Fauci is widely recognized for delineating the precise ways that immunosuppressive agents modulate the human immune response. He developed effective therapies for formerly fatal inflammatory and immune-mediated diseases such as polyarteritis nodosa, granulomatosis with polyangiitis (formerly Wegener's granulomatosis), and lymphomatoid granulomatosis. A 1985 Stanford University Arthritis Center Survey of the American Rheumatism Association membership ranked Dr. Fauci’s work on the treatment of polyarteritis nodosa and granulomatosis with polyangiitis among the most important advances in patient management in rheumatology over the previous 20 years.

Dr. Fauci has made seminal contributions to the understanding of how HIV destroys the body's defenses leading to its susceptibility to deadly infections. Further, he has been instrumental in developing treatments that enable people with HIV to live long and active lives. He continues to devote much of his research to the immunopathogenic mechanisms of HIV infection and the scope of the body's immune responses to HIV.

In a 2020 analysis of Google Scholar citations, Dr. Fauci ranked as the 41st most highly cited researcher of all time. According to the Web of Science, he ranked 8th out of more than 2.2 million authors in the field of immunology by total citation count between 1980 and January 2020."

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/anthony-s-fauci-md-bio

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Fauci#Medical_achievements