2021 Climate Change

[Dashmellow]

Again with the "Victim Card" when the facts don't go your way. No one attacked you. Matter of fact, it was your post not mine, that was flagged for insults.

Remember, you stated that @Nigel was wrong, and his suggested method of producing energy cost farmer productivity. Your mention of Tuatsla charging stations opened the door for debate. Which I politely pointed out (with facts) aren't as green or earth loving as people insinuate. Especially in the united states where 80% of energy is not from clean, renewable sources.

It's ok man. From now on, I'll stick to facts so you can't go down the same self righteous rabbit hole to get a thread locked, every time the facts disprove what "Your Think in your Own Way" to be right. But the facts clearly state otherwise.

You of all people accusing me of being self righteous? 🙄

Facts? Irrelevant facts are meaningless and gratuitous.

This is all just more of your self serving gibberish, HonestReview.

 

[HonestReview]

You of all people accusing me of being self righteous? 🙄

Facts? Irrelevant facts are meaningless and gratuitous.

This is all just more of your self serving gibberish, HonestReview.

Facts that don't agree with your "Interpretation" are "Wrong". Of course, if you post something, then these facts are "A Gold Standard". We all know from past threads, that @Dashmellow can't accept being called out for non truths. Non Truths He himself believes, but that experts, research, and governments show are untrue.

I used reputable sources. Not a single one was "Questionable".

 

[Dashmellow]

Facts that don't agree with your "Interpretation" are "Wrong". Of course, if you post something, then these facts are "A Gold Standard". We all know from past threads, that @Dashmellow can't accept being called out for non truths. Non Truths He himself believes, but that experts, research, and governments show are untrue.

I used reputable sources. Not a single one was "Questionable".

How long are you going to keep this up? These relentless and repetitive vituperative posts of yours that often going on for days are what gets the threads you show up in shut down.

 

[HonestReview]

How long are you going to keep this up? These relentless and repetitive vituperative posts of yours that often going on for days are what gets the threads you show up in shut down.

Victim Card again. Not going down that rabbit hole. Stick to the facts:

Please tell me which of my facts and postings contained "Untrue / Inaccurate Information" per your definition.

 

[HonestReview]

I assume by the utter silence, you can't find anything I stated to be "Questionable" Research.

This is how I will handle our debates from now on.

Facts win out in the end. No need for insults or negativity.

 

[Dashmellow]

Victim Card again. Not going down that rabbit hole. Stick to the facts:

Please tell me which of my facts and posting contained "Untrue Posts" per your definition.

Victim. How so? You think people should tolerate your insults and insinuations? You've got something coming to you then.

As for your alleged facts, they are skewed and irrelevant to the conversation and you ignore facts that don't fit your narrative.

For example, hydro power may have its disadvantages just like any source of power generation but the advantages outweigh the drawbacks. Hydropower is clean energy that eliminates CO2 and particulate pollution from fossil fuels as well as other air pollutants. Compared to nuclear energy, this type of power doesn’t produce nuclear waste. It provides vital base load power.

According to your "facts" it is environmentally damaging and therefore should be shunned.

When I pointed out that there is a huge build out of solar powered electric car charging stations underway you skipped right over that and continue to press your "facts".

When I pointed out that regardless of where electric cars are getting their power they avoid the burning of gasoline thus eliminating a huge source of pollution and smog.

Your "use of "facts" is capricious and arbitrary and deployed for argument for arguments sake.

 

[Dashmellow]

I assume by the utter silence, you can't find anything I stated to be "Questionable" Research.

This is how I will handle our debates from now on.

Facts win out in the end. No need for insults or negativity.

Just more classic trolling. Anything to provoke a response, eh HonestReview?

 

[HonestReview]

Just more classic trolling. Anything to provoke a response, eh HonestReview?

Again, please state what facts I posted are wrong. You made an allegation, that I assert is baseless in nature. Now I am asking you to validate the allegation. You have not.

You of all people accusing me of being self righteous? 🙄

Facts? Irrelevant facts are meaningless and gratuitous.

This is all just more of your self serving gibberish, HonestReview.

 

[Dashmellow]

Again, please state what facts I posted are wrong. You made an allegation, that I assert is baseless in nature. Now I am asking you to validate the allegation. You have not.

Stop repeating yourself. We've already been over that multiple times already.

 

[HonestReview]

Victim. How so? You think people should tolerate your insults and insinuations? You've got something coming to you then.

Because each and every time presented with facts you don't like, you go off on a tangent. Again, stop the Victim Card. Stick to the facts.

As for your alleged facts, they are skewed and irrelevant to the conversation and you ignore facts that don't fit your narrative.

Again, I systematically answered every one of the questions answered.

Dams are bad for environment.
Hoover Dam wouldn't have been given the "Go Ahead" with today's environmental laws.
U.S. Generates 80% of its electric from non renewable sources.

For example, hydro power may have its disadvantages just like any source of power generation but the advantages outweigh the drawbacks. Hydropower is clean energy that eliminates CO2 and particulate pollution from fossil fuels as well as other air pollutants. Compared to nuclear energy, this type of power doesn’t produce nuclear waste. It provides vital base load power.

Incorrect. Substituting one harmful method for another is not a viable alternative.

Again, I posted valid links that show Dams Change River Flow, impact wildlife, and can result in severe drought. I.E. Lake Mead is at record lows, because the Hoover Dam routed the Colorado River into a reservoir that is being sucked dry by people in the Western U.S. faster than the river can replenish Thus, unsustainable.

Dams have a substantial negative impact on the environment. Just because you aren't spewing Carbons into the air, doesn't mean damming a river and creating environmental nightmares mitigates,

What Is The Environmental Impact Of Dams And Reservoirs?

Dam and reservoir constructions not only displace communities but also significantly disturb the ecological balance of a region.

www.worldatlas.com

According to your "facts" it is environmentally damaging and therefore should be shunned.

When I pointed out that there is a huge build out of solar powered electric car charging stations underway you skipped right over that and continue to press your "facts".

When I pointed out that regardless of where electric cars are getting their power they avoid the burning of gasoline thus eliminating a huge source of pollution and smog.

Your "use of "facts" is capricious and arbitrary and deployed for argument for arguments sake.

Ways to generate energy should have the least amount of negative foot print. I actually didn't "ignore your solar and wind" comment at all as you wrongfully allege. I highlighted it in my own response.

So now you admit that every method has shortcomings and that you were wrongly chastising @Nigel for pointing out one innovation, that while costing farmers productivity, is one of may attempts to find ways to be more environmentally friendly, produce less waste, and reuse the waste we do produce. And that right now there are a lot of ideas on the table (solar and wind) with fewer drawbacks, and others like hydroelectric (damming) or fossil fuel which can create significant environmental impacts.

Understood.

You still haven't answered the QUESTION.

1. What Links / Facts did I post are "Wrong / Inaccurate / Questionable"?
2. Post the links and then a reputable source refuting them

 

[HonestReview]

Stop repeating yourself. We've already been over that multiple times already.

We have not. I want to know what Links I provided are baseless, inaccurate, and false. You made an allegation. SUBSTANTIATE IT.

 

[Lothar]

@Lothar tried to "come to your defense" that Vermont uses Hydroelectric Energy and is a trend setter. Not realizing this type of energy production is its own environmental nightmare.

"So those "Tesla Drivers" are still contributing to Carbon Emissions, Pollution, and the consumption of fossil fuels......"
You have not proven that those Tesla drivers in the state of Vermont are contributing to any of those things that you mentioned by using their local Supercharger network.
Hydropower is a clean, renewable source of energy. There are no carbon emissions involved, it does not pollute the air, and it does not require the consumption of fossil fuels. That is an undeniable fact.

 

[HonestReview]

"So those "Tesla Drivers" are still contributing to Carbon Emissions, Pollution, and the consumption of fossil fuels......"
You have not proven that those Tesla drivers in the state of Vermont are contributing to any of those things that you mentioned by using their local Supercharger network.
Hydropower is a clean, renewable source of energy. There are no carbon emissions involved, it does not pollute the air, and it does not require the consumption of fossil fuels. That is an undeniable fact.

You are glossing over the bigger picture. The energy those Tesla Drivers consume is indeed spewing carbons or degrading environments.

1. Tesla Drivers Around the Use (Not Just Vermont) - Energy Generated is from 80% non renewable sources.
2. Tesla Drivers in Vermont are using Hydroelectricity - Dams Destroy Environments.

What Is The Environmental Impact Of Dams And Reservoirs?

Dam and reservoir constructions not only displace communities but also significantly disturb the ecological balance of a region.

www.worldatlas.com

3. Reservoirs Created by Dams destroy land that was never meant to be "Filled With Water". Removing Trees and Habitat from Wildlife. Trees absorb carbon.

So yes, the Tesla itself isn't spewing Carbon. The Energy to POWER those Teslas is creating Carbon or leading to negative environment degradation.

When Teslas work off Wind and Solar, then we can state that Tesla Drivers are in fact 100% carbon free, because the energy used to power them was 100% CLEANLY Generated.

 

[kamkar]

That is not entirely true.
All that concrete it take to build a dam, consume massive amounts of power, most often in the form of oil or gas to make the heats needed to make the concrete, the single largest Co2 emitter here in Denmark is the Aalborg portland cement factory.
But the math in regard to how long a dam will have to be in operation to have offset its own carbon footprint i do not know, but yeah at some point it will swing over into the + side of things.
Unless you are a angler, cuz dams / power plants are no good for the local salmon stocks, and i assume other species too, the largest river here in Denmark saw a power plant being build making the Tange lake and that along with other dams further upstream wiped out the local stock of salmon, so the fish in the river today are a DIY hybrid stock made up of several branches of Atlantic salmon, and as i recall these stocks still to this day have to be replenished as Tange lake are still there, though some dams further up have been taken down.
There is a salmon bypass at Tange lake, it just dont work very well even if what is there now is V 2 or V3 of the so called fish ladder.
Tange hydro electric plant ( with a drop of 16 foot or so ) dont make much power, really it should be dismantled or the river at least made to bypass the lake, but to this date it is a very hot potato, that also came un in the municipal elections we just had here.

So there are probably still a environmental issue with a dam, but of course not one that will make global temperatures go up and up.
Also some places a dam make good sense, just not here as Danes are not drinking river water, we only have ground water,,,,, well for a while 😳 more and more wells come up polluted.
Americans might have to start debating is using all that water to grow stuff in a desert are worth it,,,,,, though that will have a impact on many things i like, my beloved orange juice, it might have to go the way of the do - do.

The #2 largest river here the Skjern river, was also pretty much wiped clean, but good fortune would be that a few 100 of the original stock was found in a small side creek, so there things are better after removing dams and reestablishing some of the twists and turns of the river that had been straitened out to a canal.

We still have power plants here on the old burn and run recipe, but i think today most now burn biomass and not coal, though the heritage of that biomass are still debated hotly.
At least we do get both power and heat out of those, never seen a cooling tower here in the country, first the steam go thru generator's, then it go into pipes where it heat water in peoples homes, and then somewhat colder it go back to start all over.
I do think most power plants here have had Co2 scrubbers on the chimney for many years, even if those are like peeing in your pants to keep warm in winter.

 

[Dashmellow]

Because each and every time presented with facts you don't like, you go off on a tangent. Again, stop the Victim Card. Stick to the facts.



Again, I systematically answered every one of the questions answered.

Dams are bad for environment.
Hoover Dam wouldn't have been given the "Go Ahead" with today's environmental laws.
U.S. Generates 80% of its electric from non renewable sources.



Incorrect. Substituting one harmful method for another is not a viable alternative.

Again, I posted valid links that show Dams Change River Flow, impact wildlife, and can result in severe drought. I.E. Lake Mead is at record lows, because the Hoover Dam routed the Colorado River into a reservoir that is being sucked dry by people in the Western U.S. faster than the river can replenish Thus, unsustainable.



Dams have a substantial negative impact on the environment. Just because you aren't spewing Carbons into the air, doesn't mean damming a river and creating environmental nightmares mitigates,

What Is The Environmental Impact Of Dams And Reservoirs?

Dam and reservoir constructions not only displace communities but also significantly disturb the ecological balance of a region.

www.worldatlas.com

Ways to generate energy should have the least amount of negative foot print. I actually didn't "ignore your solar and wind" comment at all as you wrongfully allege. I highlighted it in my own response.



You still haven't answered the QUESTION.

1. What Links / Facts did I post are "Wrong / Inaccurate / Questionable"?

We have not. I want to know what Links I provided are baseless, inaccurate, and false. You made an allegation. SUBSTANTIATE IT.

It is amazing that you have the nerve to accuse me of "baiting" you when you obsessively post provocative stuff like this.

It is amazing that you keep insulting me with accusations of victim-hood and other spurious insinuations and then claim your are "professional".

Correlating the value and benefit of electric cars with the general sources of grid electricity was meaningless and irrelevant from the get-go as is this absurd argument about hydro-power, one of the keystones to a carbon free future. Electric vehicles will become another vital piece of the puzzle in the race to stop climate change but for the time being the electric grid is a separate subject despite what you claim.

The fact that Vermont has one of the cleanest CO2 electric grid profiles in the nation and is adding solar and wind at a rapid pace seems to have really struck a nerve for you as it debunked your original argument about charging stations here. As a result you merely changed to subject and engage in all this ocd ranting and table pounding about hyrdo power, but this is nothing but further harassment, trolling and baiting on your part.

 

[HonestReview]

It is amazing that you have the nerve to accuse me of "baiting" you when you obsessively post provocative stuff like this.

It is amazing that you keep insulting me with accusations of victim-hood and other spurious insinuations and then claim your are "professional".

Correlating the value and benefit of electric cars with the general sources of grid electricity was meaningless and irrelevant from the get-go as is this absurd argument about hydro-power, one of the keystones to a carbon free future. Electric vehicles will become another vital piece of the puzzle in the race to stop climate change but for the time being the electric grid is a separate subject despite what you claim.

The fact that Vermont has one of the cleanest CO2 electric grid profiles in the nation and is adding solar and wind at a rapid pace seems to have really struck a nerve for you as it debunked your original argument about charging stations here. As a result you merely changed to subject and engage in all this ocd ranting and table pounding about hyrdo power, but this is nothing but further harassment, trolling and baiting on your part.

@kamkar made a good point. All that energy to build the Dam wasn't carbon neutral. Spewing Carbons and burning Fossil Fuels to create the Concrete and the Machinery necessary to assemble that concrete into a dam.

You made an allegation my sources were not reliable. If you make an allegation, then you back it up with "facts". Your opinion of a fact isn't indeed a means of debunking research. It remains your opinion.

 

[kamkar]

No and concrete is about the most expensive building material, you do not see many carbon neutral buildings made with the stuff.
Bricks are expensive too, they too need to be burned to be worth the "dirt" they are made of, but at least bricks can be reused as bricks and not just filling below roads.

 

[HonestReview]

No and concrete is about the most expensive building material, you do not see many carbon neutral buildings made with the stuff.
Bricks are expensive too, they too need to be burned to be worth the "dirt" they are made of, but at least bricks can be reused as bricks and not just filling below roads.

Agreed. Dams are far from environmentally friend. From the fuel and carbons generated to make the concrete and assemble it into a dam. To the fact Dams substantially degrade and impact the ecosystem around it by diverting water flow. Which impacts wildlife, changes a rivers natural trajectory, etc, etc.

 

[kamkar]

I can assure you, if Danes was building the hoover dam,,,, we would still be building on it.
I am not aware of any single larger public build project here that have not gone over time and most often wayyyyyyy over budget.

I am very fearful for the record long submerged tunnel to Germany, and also the price for the energy islands we are supposedly making.
I mean come on, a chitty little country making artificial islands,,,,, thats Dubai crazy talk right there 🙂 except we dont have Dubai oil dollars to pay the bill.
Also take a lot of concrete in such a island i am sure.

 

[Dashmellow]

@kamkar made a good point. All that energy to build the Dam wasn't carbon neutral. Spewing Carbons and burning Fossil Fuels to create the Concrete and the Machinery necessary to assemble that concrete into a dam.

You made an allegation my sources were not reliable. If you make an allegation, then you back it up with "facts". Your opinion of a fact isn't indeed a means of debunking research. It remains your opinion.

Still baiting I see.

Just to be clear, I didn't allege your sources were not reliable. I asserted that your entire premise is irrelevant to electric car chargers and that you changed the subject to complaining about the benefits and value of hydro powewr when you lost the argument about carbon emissions from the Vermont power grid.