360º always-on cloud-connected roof-mounted smart carcam

Who is interested in this type of carcam?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Maybe

Results are only viewable after voting.
Webic said:
As someone who works in the industry, you should think of the following:
  • UE Catigory - How fast do you plan to upload videos? How frequently?
  • Band Support - What operator will your equipment work on? What is their coverage map for LTE? Is this LTE only device?
  • What M2M module vendor? Is that module already certified on a particular operator's network? Will you have to certify your device?
  • Sim Card Support and form factor? Can the consumer pop-swap?
  • What mechanism to get info from the device wirelessly? Push? Pull? How does the device check in to let the server know where it is?
  • Will you subsidize your product cost by offering fleet management? Analytics to the operators / insurance companies about driving habits?
There's quite a bit to consider by throwing in "cellular" into the mix.

Also, 360 video typically means proprietary video recording formats. Meaning I always have to use your software and I have to hope you'll support it for the life of the product or the car it is installed in. I'm not a fan.

You seem like you're spreading your product over far too many features. Additionally, I would not buy anything that mounts to the exterior of my vehicle unless I can mount it under the car or in the grills.
Click to expand...

Thanx for the great questions and points!

- Uploading videos - this is where the intelligence comes in... the basic premise is off-load the pertinent segments of video (bit variably) asap then do better in-depth video analysis in the cloud. Video streaming has come a long way... Periscope, YouTube live 360º streaming and FaceBook have extensive cloud-multicast support. I don't need multicast for this product, but I could let the user cross stream if they wanted to. :-) The other basic premise is always-on, so if your car is stolen you have some - if not all of the crime act stored online.
- Band support - Yes it will be LTE dependent, but multi-operator. There are already some products that have multi-operator 3G (see https://www.particle.io/cellular)
- M2M module vendor... hmmm, it could be Intel - they are VERY motivated in this area! ;-)
- SIM card form factor... nano SIM unfortunately... I am hoping for an E-SIM (T-Mobile is working on their own for security reasons)
- The controller will push data, the cloud services (more than one brand) will monitor the Q0S, enable alerts etc...

Hopefully that attempts to answer some of the cellular details...

- Business model will be different, but the value will be easily apparent. I don't like the privacy aspect of driving habits being given to insurance companies, so the interaction here will be more in the accident space with the unit hopefully in the future becoming a deterrent to crime.
- I agree with the potential level of complexity overwhelming the user but I think I have cracked the UX. It's not distracting, it's an eye on your shoulder while you are driving with no interaction needed and it's a remote eye that let's you know when things happen to your car when you aren't new it.
- 360º video is becoming very standardized (see the above services for their respective ingestion guidelines)

Thanx!
JG
 
kamkar1 said:
Your projekt do sound interesting and i for one would love to see where its going, but i have a hard time seeing how you can achive good low light / night performance with the sensors i assume you will be using ( mega/mega pixel ones )
But offcourse if you have a sensor that perform as good as say a Sony IMX185 then that would be about as sweet as can be ( for a price a regular human can pay )

And i do approve going high tech on tha ppl that do the same to you, for more or less valid reasons.
ATM it look like i have been named a crook by some US agency becuz i use the TOR browser once in a while.

Police cars here have ben fitted with phones now instead of the old radio systems, and they gotten encryption, so i have been thinking if it was possible to pick out a car like that in a crowd by its RF signature.
Not that i really have anything to hide from the police now ( decades ago it was a whole other matter ) but i do think if they go under cover and sneak up on me then i have the right to detect them sneaking up on me.

I dont really have anything to hide here, but when ppl for no reason lable me as a crook and listen in on me ( or what ever ) i cant just say like so many ppl do ( i have nothing to hide so you just log anything i do )

Dont like when ppl say that ( i have nothing to hide ) i feel ppl that say that is missing the point.
Click to expand...

- Sensors, this is a hotbed of development right now... have a look at: http://www.invisage.com/technology/
 
Yeah.

Some years ago there was some professor that found out if you use some nano stuff some time during production of regular sensors you can make them much more light sensetive.
But it still seem like the main weapon in that regard is bigger and bigger pixels on the sensor.
 
The Sony IMX185 i mentioned is allso a old sensor, but i just played with one in a IP camera and compared to my oyther IP cameras based on even older Sony IMX sensors it do work wonders with low light.

But it still drop to the low 1:30 second exposure timing, so fast moving objekts in the footage are still suffering from motion blur.

There are some videos on youtube off some very cool low light color cameras, but even those still drop to slow exposure timings, but they are impressing indeed.
 
Dashmellow said:
The military is using the stuff, so it must meet their specs.

Variations of this product are available on the consumer level in products like NeverWet. It can be fairly expensive, around 15 to 25 dollars per bottle but last September I came across a no-name version of it in an aerosol spray can at a discount/oddlot store for 4 bucks, so I bought some. I used it on a brand new pair of work boots I bought back then and the results have been spectacular. Firstly, the boots have been completely waterproof and I've worn them regularly through all kinds of mud, snow, dirt and harsh rural New England conditions and they still look just about as clean and new as the day I purchased them nine months ago. It's actually a bit spooky that they still look so new, really. I do hear some of these products are more durable than others. Some leave a residue if applied too heavily but the stuff I used was clear and invisible after application.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/B00BN9P5SO
https://www.amazon.com/gp/B00DNQBFAW
Edit: hydrophobic nanotech optical lens coatings are different than consumer level spray-on products as they are applied to the glass lens surface in a specialized plasma deposition vacuum chamber making them far more durable.
Click to expand...

Thanx for the links. Very useful for applying and prototyping!
 
No, there was a bunch of stuff that was dragging your thread off topic so it was moved to a new thread for that topic so yours didn't lose focus
 
jokiin said:
No, there was a bunch of stuff that was dragging your thread off topic so it was moved to a new thread for that topic so yours didn't lose focus
Click to expand...
Thanks.

I found the discussion very interesting actually. What is the best way to reach out to Flintstone? I put a message on his profile...

Also can I ask you which CM you represent?

Cheers,
JG
 
Secret Project... said:
Thanx for the great questions and points!

- Uploading videos - this is where the intelligence comes in... the basic premise is off-load the pertinent segments of video (bit variably) asap then do better in-depth video analysis in the cloud. Video streaming has come a long way... Periscope, YouTube live 360º streaming and FaceBook have extensive cloud-multicast support. I don't need multicast for this product, but I could let the user cross stream if they wanted to. :) The other basic premise is always-on, so if your car is stolen you have some - if not all of the crime act stored online.
- Band support - Yes it will be LTE dependent, but multi-operator. There are already some products that have multi-operator 3G (see https://www.particle.io/cellular)
- M2M module vendor... hmmm, it could be Intel - they are VERY motivated in this area! ;-)
- SIM card form factor... nano SIM unfortunately... I am hoping for an E-SIM (T-Mobile is working on their own for security reasons)
- The controller will push data, the cloud services (more than one brand) will monitor the Q0S, enable alerts etc...

Hopefully that attempts to answer some of the cellular details...

- Business model will be different, but the value will be easily apparent. I don't like the privacy aspect of driving habits being given to insurance companies, so the interaction here will be more in the accident space with the unit hopefully in the future becoming a deterrent to crime.
- I agree with the potential level of complexity overwhelming the user but I think I have cracked the UX. It's not distracting, it's an eye on your shoulder while you are driving with no interaction needed and it's a remote eye that let's you know when things happen to your car when you aren't new it.
- 360º video is becoming very standardized (see the above services for their respective ingestion guidelines)

Thanx!
JG
Click to expand...

... and things are hotting up on the machine vision side... I have a less ambitious but just as impactful objective

Intel's move today: https://newsroom.intel.com/editorials/intel-acquires-computer-vision-for-iot-automotive/

As far as the Internet goes... look who is the largest new customer of the carriers: Cars! But dash cams aren't part of this trend (yet!). http://www.recode.net/2016/5/26/11785930/connected-cars-cellular-growth
 
Secret Project... said:
... and things are hotting up on the machine vision side... I have a less ambitious but just as impactful objective

Intel's move today: https://newsroom.intel.com/editorials/intel-acquires-computer-vision-for-iot-automotive/

As far as the Internet goes... look who is the largest new customer of the carriers: Cars! But dash cams aren't part of this trend (yet!). http://www.recode.net/2016/5/26/11785930/connected-cars-cellular-growth
Click to expand...
Use the tech aspects from this drone video to get my idea of wireless installation as this is as wireless as it gets. It's also streaming and can be loop recorded and or stored on the device or in a cloud based application. I still cannot use anything mounted to the outside of the vehicle. Other than that you have the rest figured out. There is also a way to use radio frequency to do things when you may have a cellphone jammer in use, I doubt most if anyone besides myself could run into this situation especially being the one using such a device. I can't really go much more into what I do and all that. Thanks for all of your help, it is appreciated.
 
Flintstone said:
Use the tech aspects from this drone video to get my idea of wireless installation as this is as wireless as it gets. It's also streaming and can be loop recorded and or stored on the device or in a cloud based application. I still cannot use anything mounted to the outside of the vehicle. Other than that you have the rest figured out. There is also a way to use radio frequency to do things when you may have a cellphone jammer in use, I doubt most if anyone besides myself could run into this situation especially being the one using such a device. I can't really go much more into what I do and all that. Thanks for all of your help, it is appreciated.
Click to expand...

Interesting drone video and commentary on the tech employed. I have subscribed to the guys channel.

There is an there is a frequency/band/carrier signal hopping patent that might be interesting to you... https://patents.google.com/patent/US20120282914A1/en?assignee=Lael+Andrew+Alexander

I might have a username of Secret Project, but you are an "International Man of Mystery" :-0 Throw me a frickin' bone here!

We are all intelligent here, but you are asking for help in a vacuum... I have outlined, at least, the broad strokes of my project... Where are your functional requirements?

Cheers,
JG (currently enjoying a most excellent Rosè http://longshadows.orderport.net/product-details/0376/2015-Julias-Dazzle-Rose)
 
I cannot go any farther into detail on what I do that would warrant such measures/countermeasures to be used. I can also say that very small versions of drones are used from vehicle launch to air 360° view with the drone programmed to stay a certain altitude above incident. These are countermeasures against other measures being used that also may include frequency jamming and interception to name a few. I really don't know what it is you want to know.. Or if I can tell you. I can tell you that there is going to be a very large market for items to protect and secure what is yours as no one else will be available to do such in a timely manner. Well that is now I suppose. It's a war, and tech is part of it. Unfortunately I do not have sufficient help in the hardware side of the issue.
 
Secret Project... said:
and things are hotting up on the machine vision side
Click to expand...

I saw that news too.

And i must say as long as the cars are not able to drive on ther own they are now at a state where it will be more and more dangerous driving one or beeing near them, i do think soon we will be in a place with drivers are so distracted by things and so complacent due to some of the "smart" things in cars that we will see more accidents.

I would like a old style car with none of the "smart" stuff beside what have been made in engines, without that heavy wiring loom such a car should have a even better milage.
Due to my location on this globe i dont even need aircon.

PS. it seem like if Danes need somthing smart in a car its a anti tailgate alarm, freaking 90 Db to go off when they are too close to the car in front.
 
Just sharing my thoughts:

1. Easy and secure top of car camera
Not a chance, sorry.
2. 360º panoramic view
Even at 4k resolution, would still end up lacking too much detail. Also, ever tried watching back a 360º video on a regular monitor? Ever tried editing one? I would not enjoy that experience. I'd like to see multiple cameras covering 360º of the vehicle, but, not in one lens.
3. 4K res
Nice, but, at what cost vs say, 1080p, 1296p, 1440p, etc?
4. H2O-phobic
Don't care 'cos it ain't goin' on my roof. The windscreen exists for a reason.
5. License plate and distance sensors
ANPR capabilities would be nice, especially on a wide angle lens as you lose detail. Not sure if distance sensors would be useful or not. I guess you could set it to auto-lock a file if someone tailgates you within a certain distance. This distance would have to be a time based distance though so that it scales with speed. What is too close a distance at 70mph would be perfectly fine at say 20mph. The software would need to use speed + distance sensor to work out what is a safe gap. "Only a fool breaks the two second rule".
6. Powered by solar, wind, kinetic and maybe wireless transmission - Always on
Added expense for something that is not needed. If I want solar I'll buy one for the whole vehicle battery charging system, not just for one accessory.
7. Connected to internal powered control unit
Is this like a remote DVR unit tucked away in the boot (trunk), glovebox or under the seat? In which case, YES. Could we, if we wanted, put a nice 6TB HDD in it please? (as an optional upgrade that the owner could do themself, as 6TB is not cheap).
8. Control unit connected to 4G LTE (and already started testing on 5G test rig)
Probably way too too expensive for a long time yet, for most people. I don't want ongoing charges to use a dashcam.
9. Large encrypted video buffer that smart cloud purges
Encryption would be nice.
10. Smart object sensing
Not sure what the purpose of this would be.
11. Partial or all 360º streaming with variable bit rates
No 360º lens please, no streaming please. Variable bit rates is a pretty standard thing, isn't it?
12. Chain of evidence digitally preserved and provable in court
So it needs to be built with high standards of workmanship, using high quality components, to ensure the product is reliable, and not a liability.
13. Police can not get video off the unit or from the cloud. This is personal security video that YOU control.
Even the very best encryption would only slow down a determined Police force from decrypting something. No cloud storage please, too expensive.
14. Smart Alerts to your phone | Saves connected events - like initial casing by thief AND the act itself
With a very low cost data plan, this could work somewhat. For instance, if the G-sensor detects an event in parking mode, it could send you a text or email to alert you. Some SatNavs already have SIM cards in with unlimited for life data plans in them, but they are limited in what they can be used for. A similar deal could be struck for a smart connected dashcam to send alerts only (but not footage, unless it was re-encoded to very, very low quality and highly compressed before being uploaded).

I'd like to know:

1. Would you buy one?
Perhaps. If I could afford it, if it were reliable, if it had no gimmicks and did what a dashcam is supposed to do, then maybe.
2. What price would you pay for the unit?
Well, something like this, even with all the changes I suggested, is still going to be in the £300-£800 region I would have thought. Which is more than I can afford.
3. What price would you pay for monthly data service plan?
Nil.
4. Why you wouldn't buy one?
If it had a single 360º lens, if it mounted to the roof, if it required an expensive data plan, if it had too many gimmicks.
5. Would you buy a unit through Kickstarter-like offering?
I'm afraid not, no.
 
One reason a rooftop camera would be a deal breaker is that for those of use who live in a climate where we usually have a lot of snow many months of the year it would be completely impractical and unworkable.
 
Dashmellow said:
One reason a rooftop camera would be a deal breaker is that for those of use who live in a climate where we usually have a lot of snow many months of the year it would be completely impractical and unworkable.
Click to expand...

in a commercial vehicle application it's perhaps a more acceptable proposition, I would think a lot of owners could be reluctant to attach something to the roof of the family car, to be fair this type of product may have more appeal to commercial fleet type owners anyway which I'm sure must be a big enough market all by itself without having to worry if someone would stick one to the roof of their new Tesla or not

Edit: and yes, snow is still an issue
 
jokiin said:
in a commercial vehicle application it's perhaps a more acceptable proposition, I would think a lot of owners could be reluctant to attach something to the roof of the family car, to be fair this type of product may have more appeal to commercial fleet type owners anyway which I'm sure must be a big enough market all by itself without having to worry if someone would stick one to the roof of their new Tesla or not
Click to expand...

Even commercial fleets struggle with heavy snow storms where I live. I don't see how it really makes a difference. In fact, it may be an additional hindrance commercial fleets would prefer not to have to deal with. Yes, they clean the snow off their fleet vehicles but anyone who lives in such a weather environment knows what an ongoing hassle it can be and in a commercial environment it would be an additional thing drivers would be required to give their attention to.

CarCoveredWithSnow.jpg
 
I can see this working on a Brinks truck. They are garaged when not in use.

Instead of automatic cloud deployment how about a panic button that would send the previous 3 minutes already recorded and the last 2 minutes after the button is pressed a second time? That should capture securely any event to cloud storage while saving massive bandwidth 99% of the time. having an internal ssd makes more sense compared to cloud storage alone.

I expect you are looking at better than a $3,000 system that would only attract commercial users who require a very high level of security.

Do not forget that when it is snowing that snow will stick to everything that is not heated up. That means in a snow storm the lens could easily be covered in snow fairly quickly. Forgte about hydrophobic coatings. You need something to make snow not stick which I doubt could happen. My headlights have been on and gotten covered with enough snow that I had to clear the snow off to keep going safely. I asked about a silicon windshield wiper blade system for a reason. Snow is part of that reason. Do not forget that in snow season a lot of sand and dirt end up on the road. That creates a mud slush that can cover everything.

jokiin said:
in a commercial vehicle application it's perhaps a more acceptable proposition, I would think a lot of owners could be reluctant to attach something to the roof of the family car, to be fair this type of product may have more appeal to commercial fleet type owners anyway which I'm sure must be a big enough market all by itself without having to worry if someone would stick one to the roof of their new Tesla or not

Edit: and yes, snow is still an issue
Click to expand...
 
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