A general Footage question

[Flashesbuck]

So, i have just ordered a mobius and all the necessary wires and mounting to get it installed in my vehicle. I have a question about the footage during the aftermath of an accident.
If i am in an accident (assuming im not at fault), should i disclose i have it filmed? My concern is, that the officer will want to hold the memory card as evidences. Am i wrong for assuming this? I would want to review the footage, before i let anyone else see it. I also just flat out don't trust an officer with the only copy of the footage... I would want backup copy first thing.

I'm guessing what i would do, is not let anyone know its even been caught on film until i have a chance to copy and see the recording.

What do you guys think?

Thanks in advance

 

[abarth]

not sure that you're required to disclose that you have a recording. that probably varies by jurisdiction. but I wouldn't lie about it if asked by a police officer. you can certainly provide that footage after arriving somewhere more convenient to prepare the file/evidence.

 

[Sunny]

It's our private property inside the vehicle whether it's a dash cam or Dslr or cellphone or whatever electronic gadgets and the recorded footage as well are ours as long as their use is not illegal.

If asked, don't lie as then it may become a case of hiding evidence but I wouldn't scream I have it on video to begin with.

Even if officer wants the video, we should not be forced to give the card as it may have a lot of other unrelated videos that we don't want others to see.
I can always provide proof later if the case is not decided in my favor.
If you have noticed even when officers are video taped using cellphones, they can't seize the phone nor delete video and dashcams are even more out of reach.
One Denver officer grabbed the phone and deleted video of them beating up a criminal and he was later suspended as he didn't have right to do that.

I think in England, cops can seize them but not in US as long as its use is legal.

 

[dash riposki]

I've not tried it, but I think you can view, and copy files from a mobius with an android phone or tablet?

I always have a laptop with me.

 

[kamkar]

I would not tell the other part about my cameras, ill let hime have a chance of digging his own grave with lies and what ever he can come up with.
I would just submit my footage to my own insurance company.
Unless it's a serious crash with ppl killed or seriously injured or traffic blocked there will be no cops involved in the matter.

Traffic incidents rarely go to court here as we don't have the same culture as in the US, most likely both parts involved here will be screwed over by their respective insurance companies
And Danes are used to that, actually it seem like we like it that way.

 

[SawMaster]

As I understand it, there are some places where your card or the entire Cam can be legally taken a by an officer as evidence. Not so in the US unless you are being arrested. Give the evidence to your lawyer, they will know what to do from there. You can mention that you might have other evidence to the on-scene Police if you want to, but I don't think you can be forced to reveal what that is. Always best to say as little as possible and let your lawyer handle the rest.

Phil

 

[Daleg]

You don't have to disclose that you recorded anything to police...your choice...but if you aren't obviously at fault, it would be prudent to. If you are at fault...it sucks but you still...as a decent human being...video or not..should at least admit you screwed up. It's why they are called accidents. Accept fault when you know it's your fault.
As fas as not giving it to a cop...I might not either....it's not a integrity issue with me, it's more of I know just because you have a computer doesn't mean you don't know how to use it. I wouldn't want the card erased or damaged unitentionally. Either way...if it records the accident and helps determine fault... the officer will want want to see it ( as well as your insurance company). You can make a copy and drop the officer a disk later. Now...if it's not your fault and the other guy is goimg Walt Disney on you and spinning fairy tales to the officer about the accident...let him. Give the officer your statement to the best of your ability and provide the video once you make a copy. Other guy is proven a liar and thing go downhill for him.
If there is a death or life changing injury involved in the accident....then your camera/video will be seized as well as the cars on board computer downloaded (done under a search warrant).
Keep in mind that if you review your video and decide to edit out the gps that shows you were speeding...it may cause problems with the claim as the footage is altered...no matter how minor. It only takes a minute or two to find out if video has been edited.

As far as what you have to give to police without consent, there is no easy answer....but...In the U.S...if the camera records or has evidence of a crime...then the video can be taken without being attached to a custodial arrest. There generally is no black and white answer as situations vary from case to case. You can consent and turn the evidence over or if you choose not to consent the officer can detain the camera itself while a search warrant is obtained....basically...your free to go but the camera is not. If you don't agree at the time, ask for a supervisor and call your attorney.

 

[DT MI]

...if it's not your fault and the other guy is goimg Walt Disney on you and spinning fairy tales to the officer about the accident...let him. Give the officer your statement to the best of your ability and provide the video once you make a copy. Other guy is proven a liar and thing go downhill for him...

It could actually result in criminal charges as well - Filing a False Police Report, Obstruction of Justice, to name just two.

...
Keep in mind that if you review your video and decide to edit out the gps that shows you were speeding...it may cause problems with the claim as the footage is altered...no matter how minor. It only takes a minute or two to find out if video has been edited.....

It would be pointless to do this anyhow as the speed could be determined by how long it took to get between known points in the video.

...In the U.S...if the camera records or has evidence of a crime...then the video can be taken without being attached to a custodial arrest.....basically...your free to go but the camera is not....

Correct. It's amazing how many people don't know this or feel it's a 'violation of their rights' when the purpose is to protect evidence so as to be able to determine fault.

 

[SawMaster]

Saying nothing does not break any laws, nor does saying nothing about any evidence you may have break any laws either as long as you offer all that you know over to your attorney in a timely manner. They are then legally compelled to offer up any evidence they feel is related to the case which relieves you of that legal burden.

If a Cop sees your cam and it is not operating when they discover it, and you say nothing when asked if it has footage they might want, they will be standing on very shaky legal ground if they confiscate it. They are not allowed to even touch it as it presents no danger to anyone nor is it illegal. They must have a valid reason or suspicion to take any action which by your saying nothing they do not have. If they have legitimate grounds to act then they may do that and you cannot stop them. You can still use that footage as evidence if your attorney advises you to, so you still remain protected by your dashcam which is the whole idea behind having it. By offering your footage over something you're not directly involved with opens you to being held liable for it being used, and you can suffer legal repercussions if the prosecution fails to successfully conclude it's case. It's not so much your giving or withholding anything as it is keeping your own hide out of trouble.

I have been in courtrooms more than most here will be, as defendant, plaintiff, and observer. I have seen many people who have hung themselves with their own words long before the trial began, and I have seen innocent persons harmed by having said and done more than they should have. I've watched cases on both sides fall apart as critical evidence was excluded for various stupid but entirely legal reasons even when that evidence was totally unbiased. I've watched attorneys make good honest people look like fools and imbeciles on the stand. I've seen innocent people get put through hades for involving themselves in other people's legal business. I know people who came to great harm from bad Cops who lied on the stand. I know Cops who have done that. The entire US legal system is more against you than for you except for your attorney. Ask your attorney what you should do and they will say pretty much what I have said because they know all this too, and better than you or I do.

Phil

 

[Daleg]

They must have a valid reason or suspicion to take any action which by your saying nothing they do not have

.
Keeping mum doesn't nullify reasonable suspicion, probable cause or erect a legal fortress of impenetrable solitude and part of what is takes to seize evidence is probable cause and reasonable suspicion. The fact that the dash camera is even there would lead a reasonable and prudent person to believe that it is or was operating at the time as it was manufactured and intended and may contain evidence. If evidence is reasonably believed to be contained therein, the camera can be detained/seized while the warrant is applied for. If the warrant is granted, then it's seized.

By offering your footage over something you're not directly involved with opens you to being held liable for it being used,

If your not directly involved in something you have footage of...then how can you be liable? Filming in public is legal...and dash cams generally film/drive on public roads and places...no expectation of privacy. Perhaps if your drove off road into a house and filmed the car entering the bedroom...privacy issue for sure...and I'm pretty sure you'd be liable...the footage would be the least of your worries.
The court system isn't perfect...sometimes it works great and other times it fails miserably...find a solution to fix it and you'll make billions and be a hero....but it's not so bad that the entire system is out to get you. If the entire system is out to get one person....much less everybody....then that must be one crazy dangerous important but interesting person.

 

[SawMaster]

That could be easily and successfully argued against. Just because your car has an aftermarket radio does not mean it was playing. Just because you installed a CB radio it is the same. The preponderance of possibilities shows that a dashcam's mere presence means nothing in itself, nor can it's presence imply anything without something to corroborate that line of thought. I've seen similar arguments get evidence excluded but maybe you haven't seen the lawyers at work which I have.

The question of why you submitted footage of things you were not involved with can be brought up. "What were you trying to do, act like a Cop? What did you have against my client to do something like that when they were proven innocent? Do you treat everyone who does this the same way and can you prove that so I don't think you are intentionally targeting my client?" I have heard essentially that brought up in trials and I have seen it apparently change the minds of a jury. Even if it's not successful, you can be legally sued for such things in many places. Here you could get nailed on a Misdemeanor Breach of Peace charge based not on what you did or did not do, but based solely on how the other person perceived you to have done. That has happened to me and I can tell you that it's nearly impossible to defend against. Even winning these kinds of cases does not retrieve you the time and misery they caused you, nor can you sue to recover anything beyond your actual costs and not all of those are going to be covered. I could not retrieve the money I had to spend to be bailed on that charge or even my legal expenses once they dropped the charges before a trial date had been set. Laws vary by location and lawyers who use these underhanded tactics are not common but it can be legal and it does happen. That's why I don't use cheap lawyers anymore.

Which is why I say ask your lawyer for yourself beforehand; what you discover will definitely surprise you and may leave a bad taste in your mouth regarding the US legal system from start to finish. Neither Daleg or I are lawyers (at least I don't think he is) so don't believe us- find out for yourself. That is the only way you can be certain to do the right thing.

Phil

 

[Daleg]

That could be easily and successfully argued against. Just because your car has an aftermarket radio does not mean it was playing. Just because you installed a CB radio it is the same. The preponderance of possibilities shows that a dashcam's mere presence means nothing in itself, nor can it's presence imply anything without something to corroborate that line of thought. I've seen similar arguments get evidence excluded but maybe you haven't seen the lawyers at work which I have.

Not even a close comparison ...an fm or cb radio isn't meant to capture electronic data, video or otherwise. A radio holds nothing and is intended to hold nothing while a dash camera is meant to capture life in front of it as it happens...in 1080p hi-def as well as it can store hours of memory on removable media or integrated media, all while designed to be discreet showing no outward signs of motion or activity.

The question of why you submitted footage of things you were not involved with can be brought up. "What were you trying to do, act like a Cop? What did you have against my client to do something like that when they were proven innocent? Do you treat everyone who does this the same way and can you prove that so I don't think you are intentionally targeting my client?"

Likely...you won't get questioned other than to clarify...your presence in a public place and did you have a legal right to be there. ...with a dash cam the answer will be " well yeah!" The question of why I submitted a video is pointless....the camera is mounted and it records the activity in front of my car 24/7. I don't choose or direct what or whom it records. It just records. The person responsible for the unsavory behavior was in front of it while it recorded...ask him. You can be sued here and elsewhere....people can can sue for anything. I wanted crunchy peanut butter not smooth....file a suit (and that is an actual suit). I'll not live my life worrying about litigation and "what if's...and woulda shoulda coulda."

 

[Flashesbuck]

This is an amazing discussion and I am learning a lot. Sounds like I just need to be smart about the situation and keep my mouth shut about it.

Thank you about bringing up the point about helping someone else... I now understand what I could be facing.

 

[Daleg]

You can choose to pipe up or keep your mouth shut about the presence your camera...your choice....but the advice suggested "submitting footage that you were not involved" as being a bad thing is NOT based in legal foundation whatsoever...take what you will.