A139 Pro Test & Review PP

[majones]

I posted power consumption charts for the various channel configurations and various parking modes in this post:

VIOFO A139 Pro - Testing / Review Info

I've been a tester of the VIOFO A139 Pro 3-channel dash camera for the past couple of months. A139 Pro Features The A139 Pro will be offered in a 1, 2 or 3-channel configuration. If you currently have a VIOFO A139 dash camera and want to upgrade to a A139 Pro, you can purchase the A139 Pro...

dashcamtalk.com

Just what I wanted. Thank you.

 

[viofo]

Little report of an "issue" after another round of playing around:
@VIOFO-Support
After everything was perfectly running, while using a ~12GB FAT32 partition to make sure I could test everything without constant overwrites, and doing a fresh formatting via the dashcam, I went ahead and shrunk the partition to my planned 2.5GB.
I then put the card into the dashcam and did a format like the last time.

Result:
When pressing the button once, it works correctly but when pressing it for a second time (a few minutes later), it will DELETE the first protected video(s) and only protect the second video from the second button press.
So instead of 4 locked videos, if within the 15s both times, and a full sd card, it deletes 3 of the protected videos, keeps only the latest and keeps recording.

I then did another format via the dashcam, drove for 15 minutes => identical behaviour!

I could restore most of them by using QPhotoRec from "TestDisk", since the card-controller uses every sector, before starting to write into them again for increased life-span of the card. But a few where broken and I couldn't play them back.
I don't think this is the planned behaviour?!

Do your engineers know how big the partition would need to be to get it working, like it should?
I'm testing 5GB next..

And I'd very much like to get the GPS Coordinates written into the meta-data, like others requested too.
Should I create a ticket for these 2 things?

Do you want to record only 1 or 2 files on the SD card?
We got some requests for this for German users, and plan to develop a special firmware, but we don't have an expected time for release.

 

[tchavei]

I wonder how @tchavei is working around the strict laws in Portugal using the dashcam for driving and parking surveillance.
Or he just has balls of steel

Balls of steel. Plus I'll drag them through court. If I can't have a dashcam how come 20.000 teslas can? Then I'll go on the news that the government puts tesla above the law and then we'll have a national sh**show

Joking aside... It's a very grey area. The privacy law (adopted from the EU) applies to businesses and institutions. Not privates. Courts have been accepting dashcam videos to prove crimes (since the penal code superseeds the right to privacy) so a lawyer will argue that the law is skewed since it doesn't explicitly allow dashcams but uses its product to prove a crime.

Bottom line: be smart, don't offer your footage to the authorities, don't publish your footage on YouTube (and if you do mask license plates and faces) and only use the footage with your insurance company (since they will gladly accept the footage that proves I'm not at fault and thus they don't have to pay out).

Speaking of Germany, I'm following a German YouTuber that posts dozen of incidents every single week on his channel. So there are people in Germany using dashcams. He always makes sure to hide license plates and faces but he's sent tons of material every week.

 

[Dashmellow]

Balls of steel. Plus I'll drag them through court. If I can't have a dashcam how come 20.000 teslas can? Then I'll go on the news that the government puts tesla above the law and then we'll have a national sh**show

I've been a member on this forum since 2013 and over this time there have been a number of well known Portuguese members here like @Module 79L who were/are hard core dash cam users and regular DCT posters but they've never mentioned these laws or any legal issues using dash cams. For this reason I wasn't even aware that such laws were even a concern. What gives?

Maybe you don't need to sweat it?

In the U.S. state where I live there are laws/regulations that you can't stick anything on your windshield that "might" block your view such as dash cams. I used to be paranoid about it but it eventually became clear that the police don't enforce these regs at all even though they are on the books. Maybe it's the same in Portugal?

 

[mikey94025]

After everything was perfectly running, while using a ~12GB FAT32 partition to make sure I could test everything without constant overwrites, and doing a fresh formatting via the dashcam, I went ahead and shrunk the partition to my planned 2.5GB.
I then put the card into the dashcam and did a format like the last time.

Result:
When pressing the button once, it works correctly but when pressing it for a second time (a few minutes later), it will DELETE the first protected video(s) and only protect the second video from the second button press.

You're trying hard to create a hack on the SD card and hope that their firmware will respect it. It's not a supported feature, so even if you seem to make it work I would be worried that some future firmware would inadvertently break what you're depending upon.

Have you considered just buying a tiny microSD card and see if it will work? It seems you can buy 2GB and 4GB ones (example).

 

[Raaz]

Do you want to record only 1 or 2 files on the SD card?
We got some requests for this for German users, and plan to develop a special firmware, but we don't have an expected time for release.

Yes, I'm one of them, pledging for it on the previous pages of this thread
A custom firmware with a setting to restrict the amount of videos would be awesome!
Please don't force it to 1 or 2 though. Make it 2-5, selectable.
With only 1, there would need to be some caching that always stores 30s +/- the button press or something similar.
Making it 2 vids would work with the "15s within the edges = store both" thingy.

1-2 files is very short anyway though. I'd like to have 3-5 minutes, the gray area of laws should be fine with 3x 1min loops or even 5x.
One could argue that if something happens, you can press the emergency button while within 15s of the 2nd Video, protecting vid1 + vid2 and recording vid3.
Since there are cases where the situation wasn't clear until another minute later, I'd say 5x 1min loops could be very well argued for.

The important bit is that all non-protected recordings would be "overwritten within a very short time when driving normally".
So it's clear that the footage is only used to protect myself and not to record pretty videos of other people.

You're trying hard to create a hack on the SD card and hope that their firmware will respect it. It's not a supported feature, so even if you seem to make it work I would be worried that some future firmware would inadvertently break what you're depending upon.

Well I didn't try to get all videos protected and therefore stopping recording (yet).
I only locked 4 out of 6 videos and 3 of them got deleted.
I'd understand if there's an issue with locking everything, interrupting the recording etc.
But that wasn't the case yet, it's "just a bug".
It worked fine with 12 GB and locking everything but 2 videos. So locking 4 out of 6 Videos should also work fine, but somehow doesn't.

Have you considered just buying a tiny microSD card and see if it will work? It seems you can buy 2GB and 4GB ones (example).

Yes I did, but that card would need replacement every 2 months or so due to too many write cycles on each sector.

I also couldn't find a SanDisk max endurance with 4 GB or WD purple (probably same card, since WD owns SanDisk).
Or rather: I couldn't find a U3, V30 class card in 4 GB at all..
Financially it would be fine to replace the card that frequently, but I don't want to risk errors in case of an accident because I didn't switch (and threw away) the tiny card early enough

 

[Dex_]

And I'd very much like to get the GPS Coordinates written into the meta-data, like others requested too.

That's wrong with it? GPS coordinates, speed, time and course info already writes to MP4 container meta-data sections (search freeGPS tags in files).

Spoiler: GPS info sample

Queueing file '2023_0306_210138_F-A139Pro.MP4' for processing...
Processing file '2023_0306_210138_F-A139Pro.MP4'...
Found moov atom...
Found gps chunk descriptor atom...
Atom pos = 2f238c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 5b6b50, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 87b770, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = b40488, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = e050c8, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 10c33f4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 138c0c0, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 164ee58, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 1917e54, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 1bd2f78, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 1e91f18, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 215822c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 241c6a0, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 26e385c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 29adbd4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 2c71868, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 2f35b78, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 31fa78c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 34bc020, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 3780e30, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 3a453a4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 3d0bcb4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 3fcda88, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 429267c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 4558954, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 481b0ac, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 4ade3fc, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 4da2dc4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 506852c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 532457c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 55eb4fc, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 58afff8, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 5b7634c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 5e3906c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 60fd86c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 63c11a4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 66846b4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 6948920, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 6c0d8c4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 6ed14c0, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 71930a8, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 7457000, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 7718d14, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 79dee24, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 7ca1b3c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 7f669d4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 822b2d8, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 84eef7c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 87b3df0, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 8a77434, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 8d3d27c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 8fff8e4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 92c457c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 958814c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 9849630, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 9b0d990, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 9dd0f50, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = a092dc8, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = a356904, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = a61aab4, atom size = 4000
Found - Total GPS chunks:60 Valid:60 Skip:0

 

[Raaz]

That's wrong with it? GPS coordinates, speed, time and course info already writes to MP4 container meta-data sections (search freeGPS tags in files).

Spoiler: GPS info sample

Queueing file '2023_0306_210138_F-A139Pro.MP4' for processing...
Processing file '2023_0306_210138_F-A139Pro.MP4'...
Found moov atom...
Found gps chunk descriptor atom...
Atom pos = 2f238c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 5b6b50, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 87b770, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = b40488, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = e050c8, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 10c33f4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 138c0c0, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 164ee58, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 1917e54, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 1bd2f78, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 1e91f18, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 215822c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 241c6a0, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 26e385c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 29adbd4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 2c71868, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 2f35b78, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 31fa78c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 34bc020, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 3780e30, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 3a453a4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 3d0bcb4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 3fcda88, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 429267c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 4558954, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 481b0ac, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 4ade3fc, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 4da2dc4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 506852c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 532457c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 55eb4fc, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 58afff8, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 5b7634c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 5e3906c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 60fd86c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 63c11a4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 66846b4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 6948920, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 6c0d8c4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 6ed14c0, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 71930a8, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 7457000, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 7718d14, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 79dee24, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 7ca1b3c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 7f669d4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 822b2d8, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 84eef7c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 87b3df0, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 8a77434, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 8d3d27c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 8fff8e4, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 92c457c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 958814c, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 9849630, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 9b0d990, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = 9dd0f50, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = a092dc8, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = a356904, atom size = 4000
Atom pos = a61aab4, atom size = 4000
Found - Total GPS chunks:60 Valid:60 Skip:0

With which program can you read out the GPS data?
I had a quick search for "freeGPS tags" and the results don't make any sense to me. Just apps to record GPS data with a phone etc.

Windows properties and Adobe Lightroom show the GPS data for the iPhone videos of my partner and my videos of my Samsung phone, but I couldn't find them at all for the dashcam videos.

 

[Dex_]

You be able to try my python script at https://github.com/EgorKin/nvtk_mp4_to_gpx (but yes, it is not user-friendy solution but I like python)
It's allows to extract all GPS info to external gpx file and you may use any GPS Viewer software to examine gps info.

 

[Raaz]

You be able to try my python script at https://github.com/EgorKin/nvtk_mp4_to_gpx (but yes, it is not user-friendy solution but I like python)
It's allows to extract all GPS info to external gpx file and you may use any GPS Viewer software to examine gps info.

Yeah okay
Thanks for the link! I'll check it out.

You have to admit though, that it would be a lot more convenient to simply put the start coordinates of a video into the easily found meta data when simply importing it to a software or just doing right click - > properties in windows, like you can do for footage from a smartphone.

 

[Dex_]

You may use other software like "Dashcam Viewer' to view GPS info directly from video files. My point was show you that Viofo already made all that they should for GPS tags support.

 

[Raaz]

You may use other software like "Dashcam Viewer' to view GPS info directly from video files. My point was show you that Viofo already made all that they should for GPS tags support.

Just tested the trial version of Dashcam Viewer Pro and see what you mean, thanks!
I still think it would be nice to have the first GPS-Position written into the standard meta-data most users know from photos, so all mainstream software can show which video is from where.

Your Python Script helps a lot with this! But I'd say it's pretty straight forward to just write the first GPS Point like this:

 

[tchavei]

I've been a member on this forum since 2013 and over this time there have been a number of well known Portuguese members here like @Module 79L who were/are hard core dash cam users and regular DCT posters but they've never mentioned these laws or any legal issues using dash cams. For this reason I wasn't even aware that such laws were even a concern. What gives?

Maybe you don't need to sweat it?

In the U.S. state where I live there are laws/regulations that you can't stick anything on your windshield that "might" block your view such as dash cams. I used to be paranoid about it but it eventually became clear that the police don't enforce these regs at all even though they are on the books. Maybe it's the same in Portugal?

So far no police has ever bothered to look at my windshield tbh. Plus like I said, it's a very grey area but in fact, if you search up Portuguese law about it, there's nothing specific authorising it or denying it.

And yeah, my car has the mandatory collision detection camera too so that's two lens you can see on the windshield if you look hard enough. One legal, one grey area. It's hilarious

 

[mikey94025]

Just tested the trial version of Dashcam Viewer Pro and see what you mean, thanks!
I still think it would be nice to have the first GPS-Position written into the standard meta-data most users know from photos, so all mainstream software can show which video is from where.

Your Python Script helps a lot with this! But I'd say it's pretty straight forward to just write the first GPS Point like this:

The difference is that your JPG picture is taken at a specific GPS location, at a specific point in time. Your dashcam video is recorded over a span of time and varying GPS locations. It would be inaccurate or deceptive to pick one instant of time and put that as the metadata for the entire video file. Therefore it seems that the standard for GPS locations in video is different than that for pictures. GPS locations are also not very useful to people in their numeric form vs. translated into meaningful map display. Trust that if you use the right software for viewing GPS-encoded video (not Windows Explorer) then the GPS metadata is there and can be displayed on a map.

Update - I just checked an iPhone MOV video file. It also does not display GPS metadata in Windows Explorer.

 

[Dashmellow]

GPS locations are also not very useful to people in their numeric form vs. translated into meaningful map display.

I agree with everything in your above post except this one statement. Numerical GPS coordinates are extremely useful and indeed often vital as they pinpoint and document your precise location using longitude and latitude. Seeing the location on a moving map can be useful, even fun but in some ways is besides the point. It is those GPS coordinate numbers that would get you rescued if you were lost at sea or in the wilderness, not a map viewer app. For dash cams, those numbers could be useful in court if you ever needed to document precisely where you were at the moment an incident occurred and they would have more precision (including legally) than a map rendering.

 

[Nigel]

I only locked 4 out of 6 videos and 3 of them got deleted.
I'd understand if there's an issue with locking everything, interrupting the recording etc.
But that wasn't the case yet, it's "just a bug".

I think there is a limit to the number of files you can lock because it reserves some space for the loop of normal unlocked videos. Effectively there is a separate loop for locked videos which is not allowed to use the full card space. This is a reason that @viofo 's suggestion for the German users would be better than using a small partition - there would still be plenty of space for keeping lots of locked files, even though only 3 or 4 unlocked ones are kept in the normal loop.

You're trying hard to create a hack on the SD card and hope that their firmware will respect it. It's not a supported feature, so even if you seem to make it work I would be worried that some future firmware would inadvertently break what you're depending upon.

Have you considered just buying a tiny microSD card and see if it will work? It seems you can buy 2GB and 4GB ones (example).

This isn't a hack, it has always been supported, and always will be for microSD Cards, independent of the file system used. With modern SD cards, the wear levelling will spread the wear over the full card area, not just the small partition, so card lifetime will not be affected by using a small partition on a big card. Using a small card very likely will result in a short card lifetime though.

 

[Panzer Platform]

My @viofo representative asked me to make a post about their upcoming Prime Day sale on Viofo cameras, (July 11 & 12);

Pioneer in Dash Cam Imaging Since 2010

HOME

www.amazon.com

Btw, my YouTube channel is not monetized, and I’m not an Amazon, or BBMC Affiliate.
Playing with dash cams is just my hobby.
-Chuck

 

[Raaz]

Little report of an "issue" after another round of playing around:
@VIOFO-Support
After everything was perfectly running, while using a ~12GB FAT32 partition to make sure I could test everything without constant overwrites, and doing a fresh formatting via the dashcam, I went ahead and shrunk the partition to my planned 2.5GB.
I then put the card into the dashcam and did a format like the last time.

Result:
When pressing the button once, it works correctly but when pressing it for a second time (a few minutes later), it will DELETE the first protected video(s) and only protect the second video from the second button press.
So instead of 4 locked videos, if within the 15s both times, and a full sd card, it deletes 3 of the protected videos, keeps only the latest and keeps recording.

I then did another format via the dashcam, drove for 15 minutes => identical behaviour!

You're trying hard to create a hack on the SD card and hope that their firmware will respect it. It's not a supported feature, so even if you seem to make it work I would be worried that some future firmware would inadvertently break what you're depending upon.

Have you considered just buying a tiny microSD card and see if it will work? It seems you can buy 2GB and 4GB ones (example).

Reporting back on this, maybe useful information for everyone and not just me with the stupid German laws:
I found posts from the Viofo support in other threads, that explain there's a 30%/70% storage restriction for protected/non-protected videos.

This explains the seemingly random issue of protected videos getting deleted.
When I used a small partition, I instantly reached the 30%.
When using more than 10GB, I simply didn't lock enough videos to reach the 30%.

I'm going to test how this limit works exactly, but it completely changes my approach to this.
Hopefully a custom firmware, whenever it will come, will address this.

Imo there are 2 possibilities to solve it:
1) make 100% lockable and simply stop recording then (I really don't get why anyone would like to get their locked videos overwritten with continuous videos, especially without a statement in the manual or a beep/speech notification when this is about to happen)

2) make a setting that constantly overwrites 2 loops but stores it/them as RO when the button gets pressed or the sensors trigger. So you get X RO videos + the 2 latest loops.

 

[Nigel]

1) make 100% lockable and simply stop recording then (I really don't get why anyone would like to get their locked videos overwritten with continuous videos, especially without a statement in the manual or a beep/speech notification when this is about to happen)

That is a bad idea. People who never clean or reformat their cards will lose everything new, and you can't lock new videos if they are not being recorded.

The current system works well, unless you are using a small card, or small partition. For the people who do want to comply with laws limiting the amount of recording that you can keep, the sensible way is either to use a small, but not too small, partition, or to have a setting for the number of minutes of video to be kept in the normal (unlocked) loop.

How many minutes of video do you want to keep? (What options do you want for the "Loop Recording Minutes" setting?).
Maybe "30 minutes | 1 hour | 1 day | 1 week | Unlimited". (With the minimum setting being 30 minutes, that gives you an excuse to record a reasonable amount!).

British law also restricts how much video you should keep, but it is restricted to what is necessary to achieve the task, and given that you might not remember, or be in a position to press the lock button, or might not know that you need to press it until the police arrive at your door 3 days later, it is easy to argue that a full day or full week of video should be kept. Since nobody here ever gets prosecuted, we don't know how the courts would view this, but clearly the police are happy for us to fill the biggest card available, especially when we then make useful videos available to the police. The only real issue here is in publishing videos of identifiable people, which could be an issue under privacy law.

 

[kamkar]

I find it is a victimless crime, so i will record as i please, and share as i please without bluring licence plates ASO
And i will keep doing that until i die or a judge tell me not to, but if a judge do that, i will instantly turn to reporting every traffic violation i see, and bring media in when police as it is the norm now just ignore me.

" they " will be the ones that suffer the most, i will make sure of that.

BTW i live in a society that spy on me, and keep data on me at a level that would make former East German leaders proud.