A329 Test & Review PP

[Julian23]

Thanks for taking a look.
Based on this test footage;
1.) Do you think 60fps @ 97Mbps is better than 30fps @ 65Mbps for license plate capture?
2.) Or is there no benefit for license plate capture?

The bitrates are already so high that there should be little differences.
The 60fps should theoretically be better to catch plates.
But so far I wasn't able to encounter such a situation with my A229 Pro vs the A329 yet. Unfortunately the weather isn't that great with the sun hiding behind the clouds since weeks.

 

[Chuck McCoy]

The bitrates are already so high that there should be little differences.
The 60fps should theoretically be better to catch plates.
But so far I wasn't able to encounter such a situation with my A229 Pro vs the A329 yet. Unfortunately the weather isn't that great with the sun hiding behind the clouds since weeks.

Thank you for the reply.
Does this mean 60fps should only be used when there is plenty of bright sunshine?
And 60fps should NOT be used when lighting conditions are dark, (bad weather, cloudy)?

 

[Julian23]

Thank you for the reply.
Does this mean 60fps should only be used when there is plenty of bright sunshine?
And 60fps should NOT be used when lighting conditions are dark, (bad weather, cloudy)?

For me it's too early to make any claims about this. I have to see it myself in different lighting conditions.
The 60fps could benefit from more light with shorter exposure times.

 

[ogzogz]

Thank you for the reply.
Does this mean 60fps should only be used when there is plenty of bright sunshine?
And 60fps should NOT be used when lighting conditions are dark, (bad weather, cloudy)?

Light is important when using 60 fps. For this reason, it gives good performance during the day. If you use HDR at night, it will already be 30 fps.
The a229 pro is a powerful camera. a329 is a more powerful camera. 60 fps hdr can be tried. Either the bitrate is reduced, or a 2k 60 fps HDR option can be added.
This way, we will see what 60 fps HDR is like at night and learn whether it will be needed in the future. @viofo

 

[Chuck McCoy]

2k 60 fps

We learned 2K will not work properly with IMX678 when we were testing the A139 Pro.
@Nigel can you explain that better?

 

[ogzogz]

Thank you for the reply.
Does this mean 60fps should only be used when there is plenty of bright sunshine?
And 60fps should NOT be used when lighting conditions are dark, (bad weather, cloudy)?

Light is important when using 60 fps. For this reason, it gives good performance during the day. If you use HDR at night, it will already be 30 fps.
The a229 pro is a powerful camera. a329 is a more powerful camera. 60 fps hdr can be tried. Either the bitrate is reduced, or a 2k 60 fps HDR option can be added.
This way, we will see what 60 fps HDR is like at night and learn whether it will be needed in the future. @viofo

We learned 2K will not work properly with IMX678 when we were testing the A139 Pro.
@Nigel can you explain that better?

We already know that FHD resolution on a 4k sensor does not provide sufficient performance.
It offers 2k in the available resolution options. 2k hdr 60fps may be offered just to try.
He who wishes can use whatever he wishes.

 

[kamkar]

I have just tried to use 120 FPS 4K recording on my night scope, and it do work just fine with the plentiful IR light provided by the little torch, at least footage appear the same bright footage.
I have yet to look for missing / duplicate files, but the footage i have shooting papers ASO is not really suited for this job.

I dont think i would use 60 FPS in a dashcam if i ever got one with that option.
If i needed that kind of footage i would put my action camera in the windscreen and record 4K / 120 FPS

 

[Nigel]

We learned 2K will not work properly with IMX678 when we were testing the A139 Pro.
@Nigel can you explain that better?

It does work, but it is a bit pointless, you need to collect all the pixels from the 4K image, then delete approximately 1 in every 3 pixels horizontally and 1 in 3 lines vertically, which isn't good for license plates since diagonal lines become rather jagged. using it at FHD means a nice scaling of 1 in every 2, resulting in very nice image quality. If you want a smaller file, it is better to simply reduce the bitrate and keep the 4K.

It offers 2k in the available resolution options. 2k hdr 60fps may be offered just to try.

i don't think that is possible on the IMX678 unless you only collect part of the image. If you want the full field of view then you would need to collect the full image from the sensor, and the sensor is not capable of 60fps HDR with a full size image. You can probably do it at FHD resolution.

 

[ogzogz]

@Nigel
Then let's say it this way, let it be 60fps with HDR active and no matter what resolution it is. So we can see the night performance.

In short, there is a huge 60fps in the promotion for the a329. but it doesn't work in hdr. The a329 looks very good at 60 fps during the day. a229 pro is not bad either.
Night performance of both is almost the same.

assuming both are set to high quality,
What was the a329 30 fps hdr active bitrate value? What was the a229 pro 30 fps hdr bitrate value?

 

[Karagandinez]

In short, there is a huge 60fps in the promotion for the a329. but it doesn't work in hdr.

In order for the HDR on the A329 to work at 60 fps, the advertisement should say 120 fps.

 

[ogzogz]

In order for the HDR on the A329 to work at 60 fps, the advertisement should say 120 fps.

That's not what I'm talking about. At least 60fps HDR at lower resolution can be offered as an option and choice.

 

[Nigel]

In order for the HDR on the A329 to work at 60 fps, the advertisement should say 120 fps.

Unfortunately, Sony don't make their Starvis 2 sensors that fast, they are designed for security cameras, which often do 10fps.
IMX678 is a maximum of 72fps at full frame.

Then let's say it this way, let it be 60fps with HDR active and no matter what resolution it is. So we can see the night performance.

I think it may be possible at FHD through the pixel binning mode, where 4 pixels are combined into one on the sensor, which should give very good image quality.

Realistically, people don't want FHD from a premium dashcam, so it won't get used, and the HDR algorithms are going to work the same as they do at 30fps, so we already know what it will look like - just use a video editor to resize the 4K HDR video to FHD, and that will be pretty close. Should be a little less noise with the pixel binning, so the firmware might be able to have some optimisation of exposure for night time, but nobody is going to use it, so there is not much point bothering.

In short, there is a huge 60fps in the promotion for the a329. but it doesn't work in hdr. The a329 looks very good at 60 fps during the day. a229 pro is not bad either.

Yes, it is a pity HDR doesn't work at 60fps, so 60fps is not ideal for use as a dashcam, but the 60fps is good for making movies and for slow motion, the huge 60fps promotion is reasonable, and no other dashcam can currently do 4K 60fps for movies, not even the TypeS 403, despite the claims!

I don't think we are going to get a 4K 60fps DOL-HDR dashcam for a long time, nobody is making suitable sensors. We might get some other sort of HDR at 60fps, but it won't be good for night time license plate reading, except when parked.

Do we really need 60fps HDR? It just uses up more memory card space, and most people make their movies in daylight so don't need the night time HDR at 60fps, although I like to make my sunshine movies in HDR, so maybe the answer is yes!

 

[ogzogz]

Unfortunately, Sony don't make their Starvis 2 sensors that fast, they are designed for security cameras, which often do 10fps.
IMX678 is a maximum of 72fps at full frame.


I think it may be possible at FHD through the pixel binning mode, where 4 pixels are combined into one on the sensor, which should give very good image quality.

Realistically, people don't want FHD from a premium dashcam, so it won't get used, and the HDR algorithms are going to work the same as they do at 30fps, so we already know what it will look like - just use a video editor to resize the 4K HDR video to FHD, and that will be pretty close. Should be a little less noise with the pixel binning, so the firmware might be able to have some optimisation of exposure for night time, but nobody is going to use it, so there is not much point bothering.


Yes, it is a pity HDR doesn't work at 60fps, so 60fps is not ideal for use as a dashcam, but the 60fps is good for making movies and for slow motion, the huge 60fps promotion is reasonable, and no other dashcam can currently do 4K 60fps for movies, not even the TypeS 403, despite the claims!

I don't think we are going to get a 4K 60fps DOL-HDR dashcam for a long time, nobody is making suitable sensors. We might get some other sort of HDR at 60fps, but it won't be good for night time license plate reading, except when parked.

Do we really need 60fps HDR? It just uses up more memory card space, and most people make their movies in daylight so don't need the night time HDR at 60fps, although I like to make my sunshine movies in HDR, so maybe the answer is yes!

Of course, high cinema quality should not be expected from a dash cam. Threads always talk about more fps and more bitrate.
In my opinion, a good 2k camera, a good rear camera (not the current HDR and Starvis 2) and a good FHD telephoto are the ideal combination for the vehicle. Each should be 30fps and only support telephoto HDR. Additionally, telephoto is disabled in parking mode, etc.

most importantly the economics of storage and energy consumption.

 

[Chuck McCoy]

Any update on the prototype Telephoto & IR Interior remote cameras for the A329?
@viofo

 

[Chuck McCoy]

November 18, 2024 I performed an audio comparison with the A329, and A229 Pro;

Post in thread 'A329 Test & Review PP'

Nov 18, 2024

A329 vs. A229 Pro - Audio Comparison

I will recreate this comparison will actual driving test footage.
Just waiting on official public firmware for the A329.

• Chuck McCoy

• 

I found the audio volume level of the A329 was much quieter than the A229 Pro.
I sent the original raw files to @rcg530 for analysis, and he confirmed the A329 was not as loud as the A229 Pro.
He was kind enough to put together this nifty comparison showing the audio level differences.

Today @viofo released a “new” unofficial firmware, (thank you for your hard work);

Post in thread 'VIOFO A329 FIRMWARE'

Jan 1, 2025

This is the new V1.1 version, now ready for public testing.

Change Log:

1. Optimized 4K 60fps daytime video quality
2. Optimized external SSD support
3. Optimized audio quality
4. Fixed Auto HDR issue

• viofo

• 

V1.1_241227
Change Log:
1.) Optimized 4K 60fps daytime video quality
2.) Optimized external SSD support
3.) Optimized audio quality
4.) Fixed Auto HDR issue

I performed another audio comparison with the A329, and A229 Pro.
Based on my naked ear I hear no difference in the A329 audio volume level, and it still sounds much quieter than the A229 Pro.
Have a listen;

Here’s a link to the public Google Drive Folder with the original raw files;
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/11N7BjBCE9VXt3_IZr2ZcbHeO0-6RX0mN?usp=sharing

If anyone else has an A329, and A229 Pro would you be so kind to confirm & verify my test results?

Robert was kind enough to analyze the original / raw clips.
It looks like there has been no change to the A329’s audio volume level, and it’s still as quiet as before.

 

[Julian23]

If anyone else has an A329, and A229 Pro would you be so kind to confirm & verify my test results?

Sure, I can check it.
Maybe they just fixed the distortion issue with low frequencies.

 

[Chuck McCoy]

Maybe they just fixed the distortion issue with low frequencies.

They were supposed to increase the volume level.

 

[Julian23]

They were supposed to increase the volume level.

Two weeks ago I was told a new firmware will improve the distortion issue.
I will check it soon if that's the case.

 

[Nigel]

Here’s a link to the public Google Drive Folder with the original raw files;
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/11N7BjBCE9VXt3_IZr2ZcbHeO0-6RX0mN?usp=sharing

While the A329 is quite a lot quieter, it sounds a bit better than the A229 Pro. The A229 appears to have a significant spike in the frequency response at 70Hz, if they turn the A329 volume up then it should be good. Don't see much sign of distortion, but maybe your music/car doesn't have enough base to cause that.

If you want the dashcam to cope with sudden loud sounds, then having the volume turned down a bit will help, it could be argued that it is the A229 Pro that is too loud. The real test is to see if it can record what you want it to record, you might have to turn the volume up, but can it clearly record the policeman standing at the door and talking to you without putting his head down to talk through the window?

The A329 does need turning up, not sure it needs to go quite as high as the A229 though, that was recording pretty much at maximum with not much room for sudden loud noises, if it was turned down a bit then the auto gain control wouldn't need to react so fast and ruin the music!

 

[Chuck McCoy]

While the A329 is quite a lot quieter, it sounds a bit better than the A229 Pro. The A229 appears to have a significant spike in the frequency response at 70Hz, if they turn the A329 volume up then it should be good. Don't see much sign of distortion, but maybe your music/car doesn't have enough base to cause that.

If you want the dashcam to cope with sudden loud sounds, then having the volume turned down a bit will help, it could be argued that it is the A229 Pro that is too loud. The real test is to see if it can record what you want it to record, you might have to turn the volume up, but can it clearly record the policeman standing at the door and talking to you without putting his head down to talk through the window?

The A329 does need turning up, not sure it needs to go quite as high as the A229 though, that was recording pretty much at maximum with not much room for sudden loud noises, if it was turned down a bit then the auto gain control wouldn't need to react so fast and ruin the music!

My request is to have identical audio quality, and volume level as the A299 Pro, (for the A329).
Maybe this is impossible due to other factors.