Battery pack with 12v socket plug in?

I should experiment with my Makita 18V power tool batteries. I've just bought an adapter that turns them into USB power banks. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/B019WI5XXO
The advantage is they recharge REALLY fast using the mains charger. A 5Ah battery charges in 45 minutes. (5Ah@18V equals over 24,000mAh@3.7V)

Not cheap though. But you can get knock - off versions of the batteries that might be worth a try.

Dewalt does a similar converter, but their chargers aren't so fast.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk
 
I asked Goal Zero:

"Hi,
I'm looking for a battery pack which can be left connected in my car to power a 5v dash cam whilst itself being charged from the car's 12v socket via a 5v adapter.


This is so that whilst the car is left locked, and its 12v sockets switch off after 10-30 minutes, the dash cam can continue to record whilst parked until the battery pack is depleted.

The circuit would be: Car 12v socket > plug in 5v adapter > Venture 30 > to 5v Dash Cam.

Once the battery pack is depleted over time whilst parked it would be re-charged once the car is driven and charging power to it restored. Current drain for the cam is about 400 mA.

Advice on Dashcamtalk.com is NOT to do this for two reasons:

1/ A battery pack will not charge whilst discharging to the cam at the same time, i.e. whilst driving, so will become depleted as I drive and it powers the cam.
2/ It is unsafe to charge and discharge at the same time.


Are you able to confirm the Venture 30 can:
  • Charge at the same time it is discharging about 400 mA, assuming the power source is 1.2A to 2.0A from the car's 12v>5v source?
  • Safe to do the above, and why it is safe when others may not be? In other words the tech behind this safety?
Many thanks."

They replied with:

Hi David,

Our Venture 30 can certainly be used for this application. It is completely fine to charge the venture 30 while using it to power your dashcam. Our units have built in charge controllers to prevent it from overcharging. They also have low battery protection built in to prevent damage to the battery when it is drained completely. We assure you, there is no safety concern with using our Venture 30 and your dashcam in the way you have described. Thanks for supporting Goal Zero!

Best,

Brogen Reed

Solution Center Representative
EMAIL BGReed@goalzero.com
OFFICE 888.794.6250
#GetOutStayOut #OfficeAnywhere

GoalZero.com | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube | Twitter
GOAL ZERO IS AN NRG COMPANY"



I have further asked:

"Hi Brogen,

Thanks for that. Will the Venture 30 actually charge whilst being discharged to the dash cam, or will internal circuitry interrupt the charging process whilst the Venture 30 is being discharged?

In other words, if the cam was continually in use whilst driving, would the Venture 30 eventually become depleted or is it able to accept a higher charge than it outputs, in my case approx. 400mA, assuming an input charge at, say, 1.0A so that it would only become completely discharged once the charge from the car has been disconnected (i.e. the car parked and switched off).

Many thanks."


I found the Venture 30 here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/B00TY2HXFU

For others' information, Brogen has replied as follows:

Hi David,

The venture 30 will indeed be charging while using it to power the dash cam. The venture 30 will accept an input of up to 2.1 amps and output up to 2.4. If your dashcam pulls more than 2.1 amps, you may still run the Venture dead simply because your outputting more power than inputting. However, I doubt this will be the case. Once the car is off, the venture should be at 100% and run you dash cam until it is dead.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

Best,

Brogen Reed
 
For others' information, Brogen has replied as follows:

Hi David,

. If your dashcam pulls more than 2.1 amps, you may still run the Venture dead simply because your outputting more power than inputting. However, I doubt this will be the case. Once the car is off, the venture should be at 100% and run you dash cam until it is dead.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

Best,

Brogen Reed


Interestingly, but not surprisingly, this fellow never directly answers your questions, especially in regard to safety. Instead he says, "The venture 30 will indeed be charging while using it to power the dash cam." The fact that it will accept a charge while discharging doesn't answer whether it actually has the appropriate circuitry to properly do "pass-through-charging", a term I notice you avoid using when you send these queries to these companies.

The simple fact is that even if a power bank can do pass-through-charging, they were never designed to be permanently connected to a power source and left inside an automobile where they are subjected to constant shock, vibration and temperature extremes. Pass-through charging is designed to be used periodically, not full time.

This whole "pass-through-charging" mentality here seems to be a strange metaphor of a power bank as a kind of bucket full of water leaking through a little hole in the bottom where the bucket is constantly being being refilled from the top to replenish it.

But that is not how lithium-ion batteries function. They rely on a very energy dense, potentially volatile electro-chemical reaction involving the migration of ions between an anode and a cathode in a processing that is specifically intended to cycle. Unlike a bucket of water, lithium batteries are susceptible to stresses that cause them to deteriorate.

At this point, since you have been asking the same basic question in this thread for 15 months now it is clear that you are going to keep asking this question until someone gives you the answer you want to hear, so hopefully the worse that will happen is that you end up with a prematurely dead battery pack and nothing more.

"What is Pass Through Charging" (Charger Harbor)
https://www.chargerharbor.com/what-is-pass-through-charging/

Some quotes from the above article:

"In the short-term, Pass-Through charging can be very convenient but in the long-term, it can harm a power bank’s capacity quite a lot."

"Ultimately, we think that Pass-Through charging is double edged. It’s a great way to keep all your devices charged in the SHORT-TERM. In the LONG-TERM, however, the power bank will be damaged quite a lot. We may recommend getting a high capacity power bank for Pass Through charging, but we HIGHLY recommend to not use Pass-Through charging too much or not at all."
 
Last edited:
At this point, since you have been asking the same basic question in this thread for 15 months now it is clear that you are going to keep asking this question until someone gives you the answer you want to hear, so hopefully the worse that will happen is that you end up with a prematurely dead battery pack and nothing more.

Actually I asked questions for TWO DAYS in 2016, and then when this thread was resurrected I chimed in with some posts over the last nine days, thinking technology may have moved on.
That's me harping on about the "same question" for... er... 11 days, not 15 months. AND if my questions and your very knowledgeable and informative answers help others what's the issue?

Chill out babe. :)
 
Actually I asked questions for TWO DAYS in 2016, and then when this thread was resurrected I chimed in with some posts over the last nine days, thinking technology may have moved on.
That's me harping on about the "same question" for... er... 11 days, not 15 months. AND if my questions and your very knowledgeable and informative answers help others what's the issue?

Chill out babe. :)

For some odd reason you again keep presenting the same question you asked 15 months ago; one that several DCT members advised against at that time. It's not a question of whether the technology has somehow "moved on", it's a question of how the physics of this battery chemistry functions and that's not going to change anytime soon regardless of how much magical or wishful thinking one applies.

Pass-through charging is not that hard to achieve. It requires a circuit design that can stop charging the battery when it is fully saturated and then let the battery drain down in the background a certain amount before it again begins another charge cycle. And it needs to isolate the output from the input during that charge cycle. It's more complex and expensive to achieve this so you don't see this circuit in too many power banks especially because of the fact that unlike in a smartphone, tablet or laptop there is no OS to do the battery management along with the fact that not that many people want or require pass-through charging in a power bank.

Nevertheless, even with banks that have the feature pass-through charging was designed for periodic use, not full time installation permanently wired in the cabin glove box of a motor vehicle.

It obviously makes you very uncomfortable and defensive to receive answers you don't wish to hear to a question you repeatedly keep asking. Amusing too that you react by telling me to "chill out" just because I provided facts you don't like. Truly, friend, I believe you are the one who should do some chilling out here and perhaps finally give the tautology a rest. ;)
 
Last edited:
The Tqka lithium iron phosphate power bank arrived yesterday, as purchased here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/B073QQPKVY

I've just taken delivery of one of these. It's a hefty best isn't it? Seems noticeably heavier than my Anker PowerCore+ 2600. Maybe that's down to the different chemistry. I'm not complaining, anything too light makes me suspicious about the specs. And you don't buy a power bank like this to put in your pocket.
Haven't had a chance to do many tests yet, other than it is charging at the 2A it says it can take.
I can't believe what a bargain this is. I wouldn't be surprised if the price went up once it has some good reviews. I'm tempted to buy a second one now even though I don't need it.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk
 
I just received my new powerbank about two days ago ...
50,000 mAh ( Claimed ) capacity .

I just did a discharge test , and recharge test ...
I don't want to spoil it , not even close to 50,000 mAh one way or the other .. ( Let me find the picture )

Screen_Shot_01-04-18_at_01.59_PM.jpg


Every year I like to test a few powerbanks .. This will be the first for 2018 .
 
should have added, and at the price you paid, no chance of that capacity

Hehehehe , actually why I got it .. ( That community service thing I do from time to time when I test batteries )
Hmmmm , what did I pay for it ? ( $14.99 Ozzi Bananas )
 
Another reason to question the capacity of the alleged 50,000 mAh power bank is it's size. In all likelihood, if you measure how many 18650 cells would fit inside the case (plus some space for the pcb and other components) you'll find that it would hold eight cells. With eight 2500 mAh 18650 cells you'd have a 20,000 mAh power bank. I suppose it could have 3000 mAh cells yielding a 24,000 mAh power bank but at that price they may be even lower capacity cells than 2500 mAh or perhaps of questionable quality (or both).

Amazon banned most power banks that claimed 50,000 mAh after receiving many complaints.
 
physical size is usually a giveaway

In all likelihood, if you measure how many 18650 cells would fit inside the case (plus some space for the pcb and other components) you'll find that it would hold eight cells.

As mentioned, typically this type of power bank holds 8 18650 li-ion cells which interestingly is a holdover from their original heritage as laptop battery battery banks. Somewhere along the line someone realized that old school 8 cell laptop batteries would make for a great stand alone product and the power bank was born.


BTW, this particular battery bank, (purchased on Amazon) was billed as having a capacity of 50,000 mAh but it is very likely 20,000 mAh.
8cells.jpg
 
Last edited:
Another reason to question the capacity of the alleged 50,000 mAh power bank is it's size. In all likelihood, if you measure how many 18650 cells would fit inside the case (plus some space for the pcb and other components) you'll find that it would hold eight cells. With eight 2500 mAh 18650 cells you'd have a 20,000 mAh power bank. I suppose it could have 3000 mAh cells yielding a 24,000 mAh power bank but at that price they may be even lower capacity cells than 2500 mAh or perhaps of questionable quality (or both).

Amazon banned most power banks that claimed 50,000 mAh after receiving many complaints.
If you're lucky, a lot of the cheap ones don't even use 18650 cells
 
Yeah I didn't suddenly develop a drinking problem, may have looked that way though

I was thinking something bad had happened and pictured you clutching your chest or maybe a SWAT team was bursting through the door..........or maybe a cat had walked across your keyboard. :):D
 
If you're lucky, a lot of the cheap ones don't even use 18650 cells

Some of these cheap banks have 18650 cells but they are of highly questionable quality. Best to buy from a reputable brand now that we have some good companies in the business.

The one in my photo is interesting. It was purchased on Amazon for 22 dollars and it was billed as having a capacity of 50,000 mAh. I bought it expecting about half that and that wasn't too far off. I believe it to be 20,000 mAh with eight 2500 mAh cells, The bank has performed superbly and is about three years old with plenty of life left in it. Unfortunately, it developed a connectivity problem with one of the USB ports which led me to recently take it out of service and at this point I intend to salvage the cells for another purpose. It owes me nothing.

I have an identical power bank which has been in almost daily hard service in my truck and is nearly four years old (in March) and still going strong. It's showing a mild deterioration in charging capacity but is nowhere near end of life.

These were generic power banks that sold on Amazon under different names but were all manufactured by a company named Ecptek in China that was known for manufacturing some decent quality battery products. It's unfortunate that they felt the need to slap a 50,000 mAh label on the thing which eventually got them banned from Amazon because in this instance they built an excellent quality product which sold a very attractive price.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top