Citroen hardwire install, my set-up, and advice needed

[Alba65]

First post after my intro, so i'll try and not ramble on and spew out all my insecurities about fitment and worst case scenarios.

So, after a few weeks in the background doing some research on here and youtube, i settled on the Viofo Duo camera set-up. I plan on installing it so it either runs off the 12v cigarette adapter just north of the gearstick, or from one of the two 12v ports already installed in the car. As for parking mode, i'll run it off a Ravpower PB041 thats 26,800mAh and has inbuilt pass through options. The thought is, when the Ravpower isn't in use while parked, it will be charging from a USB while driving....... it might be a slow process, but i'll se how it goes to start with.

Having said that, i'm wondering if there is such a thing available as a double input, single output USB toggle switch? Output going to front camera to power it, one input from 12v socket and one input from Ravpower............ so i can simple switch between them depending if the car is sat, or in use?

There is a generic hardwire kit included in the dash cam kit along with a 64GB card, but i'm not sure if i intend on using it, initial gut feeling is keep it simple.
Firstly because the kit being sent doesn't have any volt protection on it, secondly because i live in a cold climate and struggle with battery power at the best of times in winter, and thirdly its a modern Citroen..... with all the modern gadgetry such as voltage monitoring via BSI, keyless start, start stop technology, and a gazillion other gadgets..... all on a harness made in France............ oh, and i'm gormless when it comes to car electrics lol

I think i could find a space in the fusebox to wire it, and manage that without burning everything to a steaming shell....... but is it worth it if there is such a thing as a USB toggle switch?

Anyone know of such?

 

[Ralph2]

You could "easily" build such a device by using a double throw switch to take power from either of two sources and output to a female cigarette lighter plug. Plug your USB converter into that.. tuck the whole assembly under the dash and switch back and forth power supply's as you need.

 

[SawMaster]

With my 4+ cams, it's very handy to have them on switches though I'm only partially done there. It's an easy habit to drop into working the switch whenever you work the key. A lighted switch might make acquiring the habit easier with it's visual reminder but expect to forget a few times and keep jumper cables handy until the habit sets in fully.

Phil

 

[Alba65]

Thanks for the replies guys, any and all input much appreciated.

@SawMaster : Running out of juice is one of my main concerns, winters here can be harsh enough on the battery even without the added draw of accessories. If i'm understanding things right, if i hardwire the dash cam via a ACC fuse or 12v outlet, draining the battery wouldn't be an issue as power would be cut when car is switched off. This Citroen (DS5) also has two other means of protection through the BSI, which cuts power to accessories on a timer after car is parked, and closes down everything if battery voltage drops (Eco mode i think its called). Using the Ravpower is a way of bypassing the issue, running park mode off that......... i'm just not sure how to connect it all up, being an electrical imbecile

@Ralph2 Thanks for the suggestion Ralf, certainly a way of doing this and i'll ponder it closer and look into it further.

I wouldn't want to mount a switch directly in the dash, don't want to be drilling holes anywhere, and wouldn't want to "spoil" anything aesthetically for the next owner, but i could always make up a small splitter box using your idea, if i were to source the parts needed. Something small and discrete, that could be removed easy.

When you say a double throw switch, do you mean a DPDT switch to direct the separate 12/5v inputs? I had to look it up, but can see how it could work. I presume the two different voltages going through the female cigarette connection wouldn't matter, but what about the converter in the original Viofo adapter? would it simply ignore converting the 5v input from the Ravpower?

It would be interesting to see how you would set it up if doing it, i scribbled it down so i could better understand it myself, but it raised as many questions as it answered. How to connect the switch for example? One side 12v other side 5v with the centre prongs being output?

I would presume the switch needs grounding on the 12v input side, is it safe to share this ground with the Ravpower and the 12v output by looping them back? maybe a ground going straight to the 12v female cig lighter socket through the box and all ground switches spliced into it?, or should the 12v cig lighter socket be grounded seperately? questions questions

I will included a drawing of how/what i'm thinking later, just need to find out how its done............ be kind! lol

 

[Alba65]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zjzcntmy1-xiE3Tspk6nQC0acogCxOvZ/view?usp=sharing____wiring diagram

 

[SawMaster]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zjzcntmy1-xiE3Tspk6nQC0acogCxOvZ/view?usp=sharing____wiring diagram

NOT the way you have it drawn. If the left terminals energize you will be sending 12V to the cam which will toast it. I'll let Ralph2 explain the details.

A DPDT switch is like two SPDT switches. One side would have center to cam5V+ , one terminal to Ravpower5V+, and the other terminal to the downstream 5V+ ofvthe PS. All the 5V- tie together isolated. The other side of the switch directs the 12V+, with all 12V-grounded to car. You're not switching any negative currents, only the positive ones.

Phil

 

[Alba65]

Thanks for clearing that up Phil, I totally misunderstood how the switch functioned. Good job it was only on paper

I got lost a bit with the jargon in your reply, but will do more homework and try and get my head round it

Much appreciated.

 

[SawMaster]

Yes, sort of. I will try to do a drawing in MSpaint if it becomes necessary. Look at the bottom of the DPDT switch. Rotate it till you have three terminals on the left, and the other three on the right. The left and right sides are now like two independent SPDT switches- nothing connects the left side to the right. On either side, the middle terminal is the 'constant'- it is always connected to either the terminal above or the terminal below it according the switch handle position.

Even though these are 2 independent switches, you can jumper from one side to the other on either the upper or lower terminals without the center terminals being connected when the jumped side of the switch is not hot. Flip the switch to energize the jumped terminals and now the center terminals are connected to both the jumped terminals. Jumping the center terminals will connect both uppers or both lowers to both centers according to which way the switch handle is toggled, while leaving the unpowered upper or lower terminal pair disconnected. Once you grasp how these switches work, you can come up with some complex switching patterns using jumpers, especially with a 3PDT or 4PDT switch.

If nobody else does a drawing for you by tomorrow evening I'll see what I can do here.
Phil

 

[Alba65]

Sorry Phil, i must have edited my post while you were replying.

If you or someone else could take the time to draw something up for me i'd be very grateful

I had a look at this site here which explained it so i could understand the switch a little better.

http://www.littelfuse.com/technical...ehicle-technical-center/poles-and-throws.aspx

 

[SawMaster]

Study the 5th picture (center bottom) to relate to my previous reply. Many other folks here have better graphics software for this than me, so let's give them a chance before we resort to my scribbling.

Phil

 

[Ralph2]

Here is a sad quick sketch of what I suggested several posts back. There are numerous switch possibilities and placing it can be either hidden or visible.. with or with indication lights. You could even get fancy by using a double throw double pole and have an indicator light showing which source is active. But that would be a different sketch.

 

[Alba65]

Thanks for taking the time to do the drawing @Ralph2

One of the things i thought about last night, while turning the idea over in my head was, will the female cigarette connection handle both 5v and 12v inputs ..... because the original though was to take a 5v feed from the Ravpower and 12v from the fusebox....... and what about the supplied 12/5v converter if being fed with 5v, would it handle it?

I noticed in your drawing that you have 12v from both fuse box and the Ravpower, but isn't the Ravpower a 5v output? if using a DPDT, which could/should handle both 5v and 12v (should it not?), Would the 5v current cause any issues when going through the 12v converter?

Alternatively, i could feed one 5v line in from the RAVpower, and convert the 12v feed from the fuse to 5V using the hardwire kit provided with the camera, (it will be surplus to requirements anyway) through a SPDT and feeding equal 5v feeds into the female cig connection. But again, 5v through the 12v converter, how will that go?

One other thing i thought of, if i feed both 5v and 12v to a DPDT switch, how to connect both + wires to one wire on the positive of the cig connector if the current is different? Both + wires from the switch onto the one + wire on the female contact? I presume this would be okay if both were 5v?

Last question, for now haha....... if adding a switch that lights (for example on the ravpower), how much extra "hassle" are these switches to wire being LED?

Sorry to drag this out, but i'm afraid i need this fed with a tea-spoon, not being experienced with such things......... but, on the positive side, we're getting there

 

[Ralph2]

No.. my schematic has power coming from two sources.. one perhaps, from a circuit that is "live" only when the vehicle is running. Commonly defined as ACC and your second source could be a circuit that is "live" all the time. The switch selects "one" of those sources.. and then feeds.. perhaps.. a female cigarette lighter. It is now like the cigarette lighter that is part of your vehicle.. The only difference being the source is switched as opposed to the one built into your car. BOTH have only 12 volts available. Your adapter is what converts the power depending on what the manufacturer wants. Some Dashcams need 12 volts to run.. some need 5 volts.

The manufactured takes the guess work out and supplies with the camera the right adapter.. The client plugs it in (assuming it is designed to plug into the cigarette lighter socket)... attaches the other end to camera.. and done. Some cameras that use a 5 volt source will also ship with a USB cord.. because lots of new vehicles will have a USB female outlet.. in which case one can use that..

However, if you choose to use the USB cord and do not have a USB port in your vehicle then you will need an adapter that plugs into a cigarette lighter.. and plug your USB cord into that

Power coming out of a cigarette lighter plug is 12 volts.. if you use any kind of an adapter then it is converted to something else.. if it looks like a USB outlet.. 5 volts.

 

[Alba65]

Many thanks again for explaining @Ralph2, but i think we might be talking past each other a little here.

If i understand it right, your proposal is drawing input from a 12v ACC on one side, and 12v from a constant supply on the other. (Lets just presume both sources come from the fusebox using add a fuse connections for now) Both these 12v wires then feed through the switch allowing me to choose where the draw is coming from. ACC or constant. This chosen 12v source is then passed to a new cig lighter hidden somewhere out of sight. The 12v adapter that came in the package with the camera set fits into that hidden lighter socket, and feeds the camera via a 12v to 5v converter. So, when driving, cameras can be fed by either ACC or constant, but when in park i have to switch to the Constant side of the switch to supply power while in park mode. Is this what you mean?

If i am understanding your solution correctly (and i hope this isn't too blunt or premature), but it only solves part of my problem. It gives me the switch i'm looking for, and free's up the OEM cigarette lighter while providing an alternative thats hidden away. But it doesn't allow me to utilise the switch to power the cameras from ACC 12v when in use, to 5v from the Ravpower when in park. Which is really, my main goal.

Edit: Could the answer be to simply add a 5v to 12v step up converter from the Ravpower as the constant 12v input? that would give me 12v both sides.

 

[SawMaster]

@Alba65
As I understand it, the Ravpower is 5VDC input and output, and operates as a "feed through" powerbank. Let me know if that's correct.

Ran short of time but I'll get you a drawing done tonight if you can confirm that I've got the above concept correct.

Phil

 

[Ralph2]

but i think we might be talking past each other a little here.

We could be.. . I was assuming that your Ravpower would be providing power to the camera at ALL times. You would be switching the source of power to the Ravpower. Charging the Ravpower while driving (you switched to continuous source) and when parked (you switch to ACC) the Ravpower is no longer being charged. But all the while your Ravpower is supplying power to the dashcam.

 

[Alba65]

@Alba65
As I understand it, the Ravpower is 5VDC input and output, and operates as a "feed through" powerbank. Let me know if that's correct.

Ran short of time but I'll get you a drawing done tonight if you can confirm that I've got the above concept correct.

Phil

Thats how i've understood it Phil. It has "feed though" capabilities according to info i seen when sourcing it. My intention was to have the Ravpower fed by the cars built in USB to charge it when needed, this will only be when driving as the USB is shut off when parked.
The Ravpower output would then feed into the duel input side of the new harness leading up to the switch point.

I'm not sure of the output in my car USB either, but i'm supposing its a standard USB in use from 2014 (0,5A)?
The Ravpower is also protected against deep drain and over charging should either be an issue due to me forgetting about it.

https://www.ravpower.com/26800mah-external-battery-charger-iSmart2.0-black.html. Is the same battery, just has a slightly different name here in Norway.

Capacity 26800mAh
OutputTotal DC 5V/5.5A output (Each 2.4A max)
InputDC 5V/2A

We could be.. . I was assuming that your Ravpower would be providing power to the camera at ALL times. You would be switching the source of power to the Ravpower. Charging the Ravpower while driving (you switched to continuous source) and when parked (you switch to ACC) the Ravpower is no longer being charged. But all the while your Ravpower is supplying power to the dashcam.

I was hoping to feed power up as far as to the switch breaker on both input sides Ralph, and then chose from there, one + feed from ACC and one + from Ravpack. But that might not be possible without converting the Ravpower output to 12v before it reaches the switch?

I didn't want/intend to use the Ravpower unless and until necessary, as i thought it may run hot if constantly in use, and might suffer longevity issues if constantly charging ( i read somewhere they were good for about 1500 charges), i don't think my car USB will be sufficient to keep it charged, simply topped up when out on longer journeys etc

Thanks for the input and feedback guys

 

[Ralph2]

If.. I am understanding that your Ravpower is supplied with a USB power supply .. my schematic still works but as well as wiring in a "female cigarette lighter" you will need to purchase a USB plug that goes into the aforementioned cigarette lighter.. then power your Ravpower from that with a USB cord.. supply your camera from the Ravpower and switch back and forth the different sourced power going to the Ravpower as you like. I think that satisfies what you want to accomplish.

 

[Alba65]

Thanks again @Ralph2. Yeah, its powered by a Usb and has 3 individual outputs.

If i feed the 5v from the RP into the lighter (presuming you mean the +/- wires of it) How will that work with the 12v current also being passed through it when being powered by ACC? I understand only one current will be sent at a time from the switch, but will it cause any issue. Also, how do i connect the 2 currents to one single cigarette lighter? Can i simply bundle all + wires and then do the same with all - wires?

If doing this, how will that affect the 12v converter attached to the lighter socket? Can i pass 5v through it to the camera from the RP? Will it simply not convert it?

 

[SawMaster]

Ok, this should do the trick. Remember we're looking at the back of the switch, which is like the center bottom pic on the switch site you shared. Only positive (+) wires are shown in this drawing, I will explain where the negative (-) wiring goes in text. Fuses have been omitted, but one needs to be in between the "Ign On/Acc" tap and the new switch. I drew the PS like a ciggie plug; the smaller right tip is 12V, the wider left side is 5V USB. The "Ign On/Acc" symbol is a fuse in your fuse panel which is hot only when the car is running or switched on. You'll have to locate that yourself.

The wire between "Car USB Port" and "Ravpower In" is a normal USB cable. The negative (-) wires from "Ravpower out", "Camera", and "PS" (left side only) are all tied together and isolated. They do not ground to the car, they only hook together by whatever path works best for you. The 12V Negative (-) of the PS (where the gray dot is shown on the ciggie plug) connects to car ground. If you actually use a ciggie type PS it does this itself and you need do nothing but plug the ciggie type PS in.

I drew it this way in case you use a hardwire kit so you could see what to do with it. For that, it's Negative 12V in wire will have to be grounded to the car. Red or yellow from the hardwire kit would then go to the bottom left switch terminal as drawn. These kits color schemes vary, so use the wire the kit's instructions call for that would hook to "IgnOn/Acc"

Now here's how it works. Remember the left 3 switch terminals do not connect to the right 3 terminals- these are like 2 seperate switches but work together. Here, the left side is 12V and powers the PS when the switch handle is down for driving with cam on. On the right side with the switch handle down, the cam sees 5V directly from the PS. When the switch handle is up for parking, the cam gets it's current from the Ravpower, and the input to the PS is cut since it's not needed. If you use a ciggie plug type PS just leave it plugged in- they draw almost nothing like that. The "pass through" Ravpower gets it's juice from the car's USB socket, which you say is hot only when driving, and that recharges the Ravpower only then.

I hope this explains it well enough- ask if anything isn't clear, and don't forget to add the needed fusing, That should be 2-3A rating, but if all you can find is a 5A fuse that will be safe too. I'd recommend an "Add-a-Fuse" device for this, makes the job super easy, but an inline fuse will do equally well. Right click on the thumbnail image, open in new tab or window, then when there press the "ctrl" key and the "+/=" key together to magnify the image.

Phil