Discrete two piece dashcam with covert Remote lens (for maximum stealth)

[jokiin]

The regular stuck on the window camera will sell more units and it's what retailers are asking for, once you get to multi camera and more involved installations it gets too hard for a regular retail outlet to sell and becomes more of a specialist retail product

 

[sludgeguts]

The regular stuck on the window camera will sell more units and it's what retailers are asking for, once you get to multi camera and more involved installations it gets too hard for a regular retail outlet to sell and becomes more of a specialist retail product

They only sell more units because the majority of buyers do not know what they want*. They simply do not realise the pitfalls of that huge lump of plastic stuck in their window - you only have to look around at the idiots that mount their satnavs right in their line of sight!
*Majority of newbies to dashcamming will probably buy as a result of some news report showing camera footage.

 

[jokiin]

It's relatively early in the product life cycle and consumer acceptance hasn't grown past the plug and play ease of use of the al in one dashcam as yet, the experienced user wants this but the experienced user is less likely to buy from a retail outlet, for the time being that's where the volume is and they want to cater to their market, I think the multi cam unit that needs professional (enthusiast) installation will never sell big in a mass market retailer type environment, yes there's a good market for the product but the sales channel is much different to where the cheaper cameras will sell

 

[niko]

The bulk of the connector would then be on the run across the top of the windscreen making it difficult to tuck behind trim.

I disagree. Some Korean 2ch dashcams I have tested have quite thin cable ( 5 metre long, about 3mm thick) running from the front main unit to the back and it's VERY EASY to hide behind the trim. Urive ALbatross II uses micro-usb plug, Blacksys CF-100 uses mini-usb plug. Both cables are easy to hide behind upholstery or trim.

I think we largely agree, but as is often the case, different people have (slightly) different expectations

Here I agree with you. I was just pointing out about generation of old dashcam users who already went trough process of illumination starting from 50, then 100, then 200 usd dashcams, - now they in many cases looking for something we are talking about here. I am not representing ALL people. Just bringing out facts collected from many years being involved directly and in-directly to dashcam world + abroad forums as well ( Russia )

imho having another is just advertising there is 'something' in the car that may be worth breaking into to find...Of course it could likely be disabled (when in parking mode?) to lessen the chances

Agree on this. Most cars have already blinking alarm LED, so having extra one ( externally faced ) is not priority, but as you mentioned - must be given an option to switch off / on from device menu settings.
Most important to have recording LED facing inside vehicle so driver can always see status of recording when car is driving. If car is in the park mode ( parking / G-sensor / motion detection recording mode ), then again, - even that inside facing LED indicator option of on/off should be added into the menu interface.

Point of this thread is about principles of using remote camera solution adn about that there is a big demand on such ones.
About other extras / functionalities etc, - this we can talk in the next step when some of manufacturers will be really interested in building such system. Then we can make a whish-list and for sure discuss pros and cons.

 

[sludgeguts]

I disagree. Some Korean 2ch dashcams I have tested have quite thin cable ( 5 metre long, about 3mm thick) running from the front main unit to the back and it's VERY EASY to hide behind the trim. Urive ALbatross II uses micro-usb plug, Blacksys CF-100 uses mini-usb plug. Both cables are easy to hide behind upholstery or trim.

I recently installed a reversing cam in my bus at work.
The cam itself is stuck to the exterior with silicon sealant - it holds really well.
The cam has a phono connector for video and a similar-sized connector for power. The cable is tucked neatly behind trim, the connectors are on show. There are three phono connectors along the length, each wrapped in black electrical tape to help them blend - the whole setup is barely noticeable, even the excess cable that I had to wrap up and tuck into the headlining!
Majority of power cables for dashcams have huge chokes stuck to the cables a short way back from the connector at the cam end - I haven't seen any complaints about these.

 

[sofaspud]

It's relatively early in the product life cycle and consumer acceptance hasn't grown past the plug and play ease of use of the al in one dashcam as yet, the experienced user wants this but the experienced user is less likely to buy from a retail outlet, for the time being that's where the volume is and they want to cater to their market, I think the multi cam unit that needs professional (enthusiast) installation will never sell big in a mass market retailer type environment, yes there's a good market for the product but the sales channel is much different to where the cheaper cameras will sell

My thoughts exactly & very glad you feel the market is sufficient to warrant the development

I disagree. Some Korean 2ch dashcams I have tested have quite thin cable ( 5 metre long, about 3mm thick) running from the front main unit to the back and it's VERY EASY to hide behind the trim. Urive ALbatross II uses micro-usb plug, Blacksys CF-100 uses mini-usb plug. Both cables are easy to hide behind upholstery or trim.

I thought the issue mentioned was USB did not have sufficient cct's available. I had no problems hiding the Livue cables in the previous car (the current is only temp install), but if there had been any connectors within 1-2 metres of the camera it would have been impossible to hide them & still have the trim sitting back into place correctly.

I recently installed a reversing cam in my bus at work.
...
the connectors are on show. There are three phono connectors along the length, each wrapped in black electrical tape to help them blend - the whole setup is barely noticeable, even the excess cable that I had to wrap up and tuck into the headlining!

Another case of people expecting different things. There is no way I would accept such an install in my car. If/when I install something aftermarket it has to be completely hidden, just my personal preferance

 

[sludgeguts]

Another case of people expecting different things. There is no way I would accept such an install in my car. If/when I install something aftermarket it has to be completely hidden, just my personal preferance

It would be completely different if this were in my car. For starters, I have very limited time to carry out such an install (unless I were to go in on a weekend!) it is easy to pull back rubber trim to access behind the headlining or undo a few screws on the plastic trim to lift the carpet in my car, but in the bus, the majority is like a kind of carpet which is stuck firmly to the walls/roof, so I have had to tuck the cable into the tiny gap where the two 'carpets' overlap & didn't stick to each other. Also, bear in mind that this is not my vehicle & I might have to remove my install with very little notice.
In my car, the dual cam setup has all the wires completely hidden behind trim etc. The cable for the rear cam has some slack to allow for the tailgate opening but after this, it goes under the headlining & only reappears next to the cam. The power cable runs under the dash and up under the trim covering the window pillar, again, coming out near the cam - even the choke is hidden.

 

[niko]

It's relatively early in the product life cycle and consumer acceptance hasn't grown past the plug and play ease of use of the al in one dashcam as yet, the experienced user wants this but the experienced user is less likely to buy from a retail outlet, for the time being that's where the volume is and they want to cater to their market, I think the multi cam unit that needs professional (enthusiast) installation will never sell big in a mass market retailer type environment, yes there's a good market for the product but the sales channel is much different to where the cheaper cameras will sell

For mass-sales ( volume ) the big worldwide market is not ready for such systems, I mean those newbies who just discovering a dashcamworld. In most cases they never go over the budget of 100usd. But there is another segment of buyers who ready to go to the next level and spend more money.

It same as with car handsfree mobile phone systems. At the beginning there were simple ones, that any average Joe could install himself ( still widely on the market ), but leader in this technology Parrot introduced different concept, which need in most cases professional installation. Despite Parrot being in high-priced category, it still sells in retail shops well. People buy it and go to installer, because they prefer to have discrete systems.

At this stage it's very hard to compete in so called common segment of dashcams, where every new model is like @speedman wrote "everything in 1 package" style.

But I understand manufacturers worry to take a risk to step into something new without knowing future result.
There was always a risk with any pioneer in any industry segment. But the ones who took a risk of doing that first step, - they had more chance to succeed in the future, than the ones who come behind.
So, there is always a dilemma to think about for manufacturer and I understand you on this.

 

[jokiin]

But I understand manufacturers worry to take a risk to step into something new without knowing future result.
There was always a risk with any pioneer in any industry segment. But the ones who took a risk of doing that first step, - they had more chance to succeed in the future, than the ones who come behind.
So, there is always a dilemma to think about for manufacturer and I understand you on this.

for me it's not about risk, it's just about resources

the overwhelming amount of development is only done when there's a known result, eg, the factory will make to order, you pay your deposit, you get what you want, until the buyers come in prepared to spend their own money they won't do it

 

[sludgeguts]

I think the multi cam unit that needs professional (enthusiast) installation will never sell big in a mass market retailer type environment,

And yet I know a lot of people who have installed dual cams like the F70 or reversing cams, reversing sensors etc. and they aren't particularly 'hands on'. There is a huge market for car accessories where installation isn't as simple as sticking something to a windscreen & plugging into the power socket.
In fact, even around the home there is a huge market for DiY installations of things like CCTV, burglar alarms etc etc.
And these people aren't tech savvy or big DiYers - My 84y/o dad, for example, bought himself a set of reversing sensors. Sticking the sensors on his back bumper, running the cables into the boot (behind the number plate), scotchlocking the power cable to the reverse light wire then running a cable through the car to the small display stuck to the front of the dash.
This is the same guy who tried to drill a hole to put up a picture and ended up creating something you could shove your thumb into!
I also note that there are a lot of people out there who are happy to pay someone to install a bulb or a wiper - I'm guessing they would be more than happy to pay extra to have someone install a multi-channel camera system in a car.

I also believe one of the problems in the market is the price point. My price range has been a maximum of about $150. I have noticed on car forums that people are looking for less since money is tight for quite a few people (and hence how I know so many people with the F70!), so these people are looking at the G1W up to the Mobius or maybe the mini 0801.
You also have to bear in mind that tech is racing along - so why would anyone wish to spend big bucks on a camera that might be out dated in 6 months' time?

 

[niko]

for me it's not about risk, it's just about resources

the overwhelming amount of development is only done when there's a known result, eg, the factory will make to order, you pay your deposit, you get what you want, until the buyers come in prepared to spend their own money they won't do it

From ODM manufacturer point of view I understand your concept ( make per order ). Many do the same, like TioTech, Samoon etc.
I was more pointing to other big names ( Vico, Lukas, Finevu, Mio ), but I think they are still more concentrated to their local market than to new concepts that "outsiders" are waiting.

 

[jokiin]

the dual remote cam product would be a lot more hands on than something like the F70 which is quite a simple install, I'm not saying it wouldn't sell, just that it would sell better through other channels where professional installation was available, the simpler cameras still account for more volume of sales and are more suited to high volume cash and carry type retail environments

 

[jokiin]

From ODM manufacturer point of view I understand your concept ( make per order ). Many do the same, like TioTech, Samoon etc.
I was more pointing to other big names ( Vico, Lukas, Finevu, Mio ), but I think they are still more concentrated to their local market than to new concepts that "outsiders" are waiting.

even most of the names you've mentioned are customers of someone else so they need to decide when to gamble their own money in having the product developed, one of them is likely to do it at some stage, maybe before I can, they certainly would have more money and resources at their disposal than I do so could do it at any time, generally the larger the company the slower they move though as they need to build a business case before they do anything, gut feel and market intuition doesn't come into it

I have no doubt there's a market for the product, that's not the issue

 

[Dashmellow]

Thinking about this a little further, a great many CCTV cameras on the market today are supplied with a short length of permanently installed cable (perhaps a foot or so) with the connectors at the end for power/BNC/Ethernet. Something similar may be the solution for Ethernet connection on small remote IP cameras. Having an inline connection module along the cable run would be similar to the ferrite choke found on some analogue dash cam cables, only smaller. This would avoid having to squeeze an Ethernet socket into a tiny camera module.

The bulk of the connector would then be on the run across the top of the windscreen making it difficult to tuck behind trim.

The idea is to have this connector close enough to the camera so this would not be an issue. As previously mentioned, a number of cameras these days come with a ferrite choke to prevent noise and interference and this ferrite "bead" is always fairly close to the camera along the cable run for the same reason so that it won't interfere with the installation.

Also: What Niko said.

 

[sofaspud]

The idea is to have this connector close enough to the camera so this would not be an issue. As previously mentioned, a number of cameras these days come with a ferrite choke to prevent noise and interference and this ferrite "bead" is always fairly close to the camera along the cable run for the same reason so that it won't interfere with the installation.

My point is though it is still another 'lump' visible.
I do not want to see connectors etc, just a nice discrete install with minimal cable visible. For a more involved install as a system of this type would be I would expect this level of finishing rather than looking like a DIY special.
Just my opinion

 

[sludgeguts]

The ferrite choke is on the power cable though - so remote lenses with a hidden DVR would only have the bare minimum of wires showing.
With regards the phono connectors just inches away from CCTV cams, dashcam lenses could still have connectors - but they could be much smaller

 

[niko]

The ferrite choke is on the power cable though - so remote lenses with a hidden DVR would only have the bare minimum of wires showing.
With regards the phono connectors just inches away from CCTV cams, dashcam lenses could still have connectors - but they could be much smaller

Agree @ ferrite choke only on power cable. Same we may see from Urive Albatross II box content

http://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/complete-review-of-urive-albatross-ii-md-7500p-1080p-720p.3030/

Also Urive had good idea of using a L-shape micro-usb on second channel camera video cable which minimizes exposure of wires. I like that idea !

 

[dannymstone]

Hiya pros;
I hate to chime in with big wigs here but, i have two points:
1) The market is here for newbies to buy a more expensive discrete multi channel system. Thats why i'm reading through this site.
2) Have you guys looked at more advanced tech and adapting? Why reinvent the wheel? Military and Police force systems are ready for improvement:
http://www.marteldigital.com/

 

[jokiin]

have seen the Martel stuff before, I don't see anything that could be adapted to what people are requesting, very expensive stuff also

 

[niko]

Another discrete install/ remote lens dashcam solution in Multi-channel sub-forum:
VOTE! Future of DashCam Solution. 1,2,4ch Discrete / Stealth cameras, Remote lens, "Snowden W007"